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Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2483122)

The actual way most fiction works is by, essentially, dramatic attrition: a significant character usually has to suffer a certain number of dramatic setbacks before being taken out.

You're talking about novels and movies, not game systems, which is kind of like talking about gaming after you filter out all the games which result in failure. But still, even looking at novels and movies, I'm not sure I see this trend happening. In the Dresden Files novels, Murph may have experienced dramatic setbacks prior to spoiler, but Michael Carpenter and Thomas did not. In the recent D&D movie, Honor Among Thieves, Holga did not experience setbacks over the course of the movie unless you count the ones she starts with, being outcast and divorced. In The Suicide Squad, Polka Dot Man is actually on an upward trajectory ("I'm a SUPERHERO!!") when he encounters spoiler.

If the contention is that non-comedic stories are more narratively satisfying when there's some kind of dramatic momentum preventing characters from going from fine to dead instantly, that's plausible, and I agree that Luck can help make your games more likely to be narratively satisfying. So can healing or resurrection magic.

If the contention is that games which turn out to generate narratively-unsatisfying stories of failure are games which shouldn't have been played, I don't agree. The possibility of failure is inherent to challenging scenarios, and for some people including me, challenge is required for fun. Knowing that a really good plan for dragon-slaying reduces the odds of everyone dying--that's why good plans are worth spending mental effort on!

And sometimes it's fun to read stories about everything going wrong, anyway.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 (Post 2483142)

... when he encounters spoiler.

Man, I hate Spoiler, that guy ruins everything. Worse than Adam Conover...

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

I have let dragons power parry arrows with breath, and it's expressly a power of the Void Wyrm

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 2483282)

I have let dragons power parry arrows with breath, and it's expressly a power of the Void Wyrm

Is that House Rules or is it from one of the multitude of GURPS Dragons books/PDFs?

I think Dragons should be able to use applicable breath weapon to "parry" arrows.

Fire - burn them up
Ice - change the aerodynamics/weight them down
Electric/shock - shatter the arrow

I'm not sure any other breath weapon would make sense for a "power parry". I also don't know if any of these are in the various deragon supplements mentioned above.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by mburr0003 (Post 2483098)

Can you block something that can pierce your skin by "blinking"? Then the dragon either needs tougher eyelids, or something else going on for that idea.

That's already a completely valid way to interpret a Dodge.

Except it isn't moving the entire body. I'd want to be able to get a better dodge with the head than the body. Maybe allow Enhanced Dodge to be applicable to the head on a dragon with flexible neck.

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Let me tell you the story of the time a green dragon made the mistake of announcing itself, then flying at our party while we were out in the open.
...

It roared and began flying down towards us from it's lair in the distant mountains (like two miles off). I said, "Hey, DM, please let me know when it's in range for a fireball..."

OK, so this is a D&D game play, NOT DFRPG.

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A few in game minutes pass, GM says, "It's in range".

"I hold."
DM: "Okay..."
"OOC; so it's going to take about say, 6 rounds to get to fire-breathing range..." "Poison cloud, it's a green" "... right, anyway, about 6 rounds. I have 4 fireballs. I don't want it being able to flee when it realizes its error..."

*4* fireballs? OK, definitely D&D.

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Sure, "geek the Wizard first" is the trope classic for a reason, just make sure you're in range to does so, and not just in range to be disintegrated without being able to return fire.

With D&D 5e I think the dragon would be able to pull of some tricks like Legendary Action (I'm pretty new to D&D 5e, but I think there is something like that) to negate or mitigate some of this.

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Not always, but agreed. Baring sjmdw45's advice concerning SM and casting (which is advice that comes up frequently) I'd even allow them to just cast on themselves with "smaller areas", so Shield or Armor spell that only covers their head, or Return Missiles on their eyes, etc.

But, as sjmdw45 also points out, that won't help with anti-magic ammo.

Good, I want the PCs to have to occassionally stock up on anti-magic gear. That's what gets mined in Starmetal Hills (D&D5e reference Swordcoast area near Phandalin).

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They probably are. But remember this started by mentioning that T-Rexs weren't all that special when facing "Adventurer Level" PCs, because they are pretty good at rapid threat elimination.

Noted. Send a velociraptor pack, not a lone T-Rex. Lone ogre dies, make sure he has orc, hobgoblin, and goblin allies to harras the party. Check!

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They can... but even with a shield that's not really "limiting them to attacks of opportunity", the giant still needs to succeed at their block. And even if the Scout has to declare Waits... you aren't removing their "if it has eyes, it dies" ability.

Unless the giant claps an arm over their eyes and fights blindly, which, yeah, sure I've built blind cave trolls and ogres this way for a reason.

Basically, if there is a good Scout in the party (or Swishypokler, or highly skilled anything poker), If It Has Eyes (or Vitals) It Dies. So... just go into fights expecting this and prepare.

And as Douglas said, sometimes "horde" is better than "One BBEG". The difference is in D&D there really isn't an easy way to bypass AC and then do tremendous amounts of bonus damage, GURPS there often is (unless you build for it not be easy or even existent). So be ready to see it.

For vitals, humanoids would probably have same locations. But for say a velociraptor, where are the vitals? Eyes are easy, maybe even the heart. But where are things like liver/kidneys and other vitals. I'd think you'd need to be familiar with the creature/monster or make a Physiology(monster/creature type) first to be able to accurately target vitals.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by Evanm (Post 2483095)

As someone from D&D interested in DFRPG, this is a bit of an eye-opener. How common is this in practice? It doesn't exactly sound that fun or realistic, even in "heroic reality".

I've run and played DF and DFRPG for 15 years with dozens of different people. Scouts are ubiquitous to the point that I can't think of a group that didn't have a scout of some kind. And scouts kill things that are vulnerable to arrows at range.

In practice, it's not a problem if you do decent encounter design. Throw in a wide mix of foes - hordes of mundance orcs in one fight, a couple of Sword-Arm Golem in another, several siege beasts with shields after that, a floating electric jelly as a boss. The DF books provide a lot of monster types, so use them all. People have already discussed that at length.

And I'm not sure what is unrealistic about establishing that Fauxgolas, the elf archer, can shoot a bird's eye out at 100 yards, and then realizing that he can shoot out anything's eye out. He's significantly less effective against 10 orc footmen with shields, because he can't do anything about their shield blocks.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by restlessgriffin (Post 2483343)

Noted. Send a velociraptor pack, not a lone T-Rex. Lone ogre dies, make sure he has orc, hobgoblin, and goblin allies to harras the party. Check!

For vitals, humanoids would probably have same locations. But for say a velociraptor, where are the vitals? Eyes are easy, maybe even the heart. But where are things like liver/kidneys and other vitals. I'd think you'd need to be familiar with the creature/monster or make a Physiology(monster/creature type) first to be able to accurately target vitals.

Yes, a velociraptor pack that outnumbers the PCs is tough, especially in favorable terrain like jungle so they can threaten to attack Mr. Wizard from the rear while Mr. Scout is guarding the front. They will probably fail but they'll threaten well enough to create dramatic tension, and if the players don't take the threat seriously they may eat someone.

You may be right about liver and kidneys (you may want to allow Physiology (Mundane) as a specialty) but as you note, eyes are pretty obvious. I think lungs are probably pretty obvious too and they count as vitals. In any case, I'm a fan of "autopsy the monster afterwards to find out about its physiology and weak spots." Just like in XCOM: UFO Defense.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 2483367)

He's significantly less effective against 10 orc footmen with shields, because he can't do anything about their shield blocks.

Hooray again for opposable thumbs! And combined arms tactics.

Adding some numbers to illustrate: a simple DX 11 HT 11 orc, with a medium shield, has Dodge 8 + 2 when unencumbered. He can Dodge and Drop for +3 to defend against an arrow hit, which means that even if Legolas can hit one in the eye with 98% accuracy, it will still take four or five arrows on average to actually get an arrow through his eye (I'm oversimplifying Dodge and Drop tradeoffs here but you get the gist). Meanwhile the other 9 orcs are still closing at 10 mph/Move 5.

Hopefully Fauxgolas and everyone with him invested in extra Move and not just weapon skills or things could get hairy.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

Well, actually, the orc isn't dodging nor Dropping. He's using his Shield-14 skill to get himself a Block of 10, and then adding +2 for medium shield DB, and he's just flat out ignoring 75% of the archer's attacks. Even if Fauxgolas can kill an orc on an undefended hit (he can) and can make a potential hit every second (he can), the orcs trotting forward at Move 4 can expect to close 80 yards before they lose half their members.

So yeah, hooray for opposable thumbs and using tools.

Re: Converting D&D/Other Adventures to DFRPG

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 2483379)

I'm just saying Dodge-and-Drop-14 (90% success) is sometimes better than Block-11 (62% success) or Block-12 (75% success), depending on how high the orc's Shield skill is. It's nice to have both options.