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-   -   Probably illegal overrun behavior (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=153566)

cheGEVara 12-09-2017 01:28 AM

Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
I have found a strategy I can use against the AI in overruns that is probably not intended by the rules.
Step 1. Overrun an Ogre with another Ogre. Assuming the enemy Ogre either had no weapons or loses all weapons, this ends after 2 rounds.
Step 2. Overrun the same Ogre with 1 infantry. Select the Ogre who is still on the hex to join the overrun. It is allowed to join, no matter whether it has 0 movement left, or how many previous overruns it has been in. Everyone (infantry and all Ogre weapons get 2 free rounds of shooting).
Step 3. Repeat Step 2 with another single infantry. You can add any units already in the hex (i.e. Ogre and previously mentioned infantry).
You can repeat step 2 as many times as you have units that can reach the hex. The original Ogre can participate in as many overruns as it wants, without expending additional movement (well, maybe it expends 1 movement, but being at 0 doesn't stop it).

I'd guess that infinite overruns in 1 turn wasn't intended. I mean, when in real time is it supposed to be firing those guns over and over. Not to mention the real ranged attack it gets once the overrun is over, but that is part of the rules.

AurochJake 12-11-2017 05:52 AM

Re: Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheGEVara (Post 2141643)
I have found a strategy I can use against the AI in overruns that is probably not intended by the rules.
Step 1. Overrun an Ogre with another Ogre. Assuming the enemy Ogre either had no weapons or loses all weapons, this ends after 2 rounds.
Step 2. Overrun the same Ogre with 1 infantry. Select the Ogre who is still on the hex to join the overrun. It is allowed to join, no matter whether it has 0 movement left, or how many previous overruns it has been in. Everyone (infantry and all Ogre weapons get 2 free rounds of shooting).
Step 3. Repeat Step 2 with another single infantry. You can add any units already in the hex (i.e. Ogre and previously mentioned infantry).
You can repeat step 2 as many times as you have units that can reach the hex. The original Ogre can participate in as many overruns as it wants, without expending additional movement (well, maybe it expends 1 movement, but being at 0 doesn't stop it).

I'd guess that infinite overruns in 1 turn wasn't intended. I mean, when in real time is it supposed to be firing those guns over and over. Not to mention the real ranged attack it gets once the overrun is over, but that is part of the rules.

Good observation here CheGEVara! :)

I've passed this on and we'll get it fixed asap.

Thanks

GranitePenguin 12-11-2017 02:53 PM

Re: Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheGEVara (Post 2141643)
I have found a strategy I can use against the AI in overruns that is probably not intended by the rules.
Step 1. Overrun an Ogre with another Ogre. Assuming the enemy Ogre either had no weapons or loses all weapons, this ends after 2 rounds.
Step 2. Overrun the same Ogre with 1 infantry. Select the Ogre who is still on the hex to join the overrun. It is allowed to join, no matter whether it has 0 movement left, or how many previous overruns it has been in. Everyone (infantry and all Ogre weapons get 2 free rounds of shooting).
Step 3. Repeat Step 2 with another single infantry. You can add any units already in the hex (i.e. Ogre and previously mentioned infantry).
You can repeat step 2 as many times as you have units that can reach the hex. The original Ogre can participate in as many overruns as it wants, without expending additional movement (well, maybe it expends 1 movement, but being at 0 doesn't stop it).

I'd guess that infinite overruns in 1 turn wasn't intended. I mean, when in real time is it supposed to be firing those guns over and over. Not to mention the real ranged attack it gets once the overrun is over, but that is part of the rules.

It's not illegal, but it probably should be. There's nothing in the rules that prevents units that are already in the hex from being involved in a new overrun.

It's an edge case that should probably be addressed, but the current rules allow it.

offsides 12-11-2017 03:08 PM

Re: Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin (Post 2142347)
It's not illegal, but it probably should be. There's nothing in the rules that prevents units that are already in the hex from being involved in a new overrun.

It's an edge case that should probably be addressed, but the current rules allow it.

I think the issue is that units with no movement remaining were allowed to join the overrun, which is explicitly prohibited (although IIRC that may be part of the 1.01+ errata and/or FAQ).

GranitePenguin 12-11-2017 03:16 PM

Re: Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by offsides (Post 2142354)
I think the issue is that units with no movement remaining were allowed to join the overrun, which is explicitly prohibited (although IIRC that may be part of the 1.01+ errata and/or FAQ).

It's not _explicitly_ prohibited, that's the problem. All the rules say is
8.04 Resolving an overrun attack. When an overrun takes place, all units in that hex (on both sides) are removed to a spot beside the board and all infantry units are divided into 1-squad counters. Combat will take place between those units only until only one player has units left.
Overruns happen during the movement _phase_ but it doesn't say anything explicit that the units must move to be able to engage, only that an overrun will happen in the hex when enemy units move in. There's no exclusion of units already in the hex.

offsides 12-11-2017 09:47 PM

Re: Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
It's been errata'd in the 1.01 update - 1st item on the third page. But you're correct that the published rules don't say that.

GranitePenguin 12-11-2017 10:39 PM

Re: Probably illegal overrun behavior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by offsides (Post 2142421)
It's been errata'd in the 1.01 update - 1st item on the third page. But you're correct that the published rules don't say that.

Good. That's one that definitely needed to be fixed.


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