Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Okay, Hello..

Long time since I have Posted questions.

Saturday I bought a copy of 'Dungeon Fantasy' and now I have lots of questions.

First - Is there background setting or world for Dungeon Fantasy?

2) The sample characters in the GM package - can they be re-worked into 150 point regular GURPS characters?

3) Years ago I bought all of the POD Dungeon Fantasy thin books at either ORIGINS or Gen Con - how much is still the same and can I still use those if I run DF game sessions?

4) Yrth (Banestorm) and Dungeon Fantasy - going back to my first question - Could DF adventure game sessions take place in the world of Yrth?

5) When explaining or describing DF to someone new to it - Should I say its like 'Dungeons & Dragons' or that its very different?

6) Is there a free PDF of the custom character sheets? Or can I use my old blank GURPS 4/e character sheets? (I have a ton or ream of those)

- Ed C.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

The setting is simply that there is a town and there are dungeons.

1. Stripping out 100 points from the characters would probably be mostly attributes and advantages.

2. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is compatible with GURPS Dungeon Fantasy.

3. Yrth can serve as a setting for Dungeon Fantasy but it was always intended to be a more rational fantasy world so it's not a great fit but there are abandoned dwarven halls in Zarak, and the sewers under Megalos (see Fighters of the Purple Rage for a particularly nasty sewer adventure featuring the six finalists of the arena's grand elimination), the Black Wood could easily work as a dungeon and under ground orc villages in the orc lands also seem usable, see Orc Slayer.

4. Say it's better than Dungeons & Dragons in every conceivable way of course! What other answer were you expecting around here? :D

5. A GURPS character sheet is a GURPS character sheet. Actually, I'm convinced that a blank sheet of paper is the best GURPS character sheet. I tend to type characters up in a word processor because people complain about my handwriting but with blank paper the space for everything is usually the right size.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

No. There's some implied setting (see World of Dungeon Fantasy, Adventurers, p. 4), but ultimately, the game takes place in dungeons that can fit whatever kind of fantasy the GM likes.

If you really want 150-point characters, go ahead. Note that there's nothing "regular" about that value, though . . . even full-on GURPS supports whatever point totals you want, which is why Power Level (p. B487) fills half a page. Personally, I think taking on armies of orcs, standing a chance against dragons, etc. calls for more like 250 points.

You can use them with a little adaptation. The designer's notes (Pyramid #3/106, pp. 4-9) talk about this some. You'll find a few things have changed names, been rounded off, etc.

Could it? Sure. Should it? I don't really think that's ideal. Yrth isn't a hack 'n' slash world. It has a lot of social structure and civilization, whereas the implicit assumption of the DFRPG is that the world is largely a hostile and dangerous place outside of towns. Also, you'll find clerics and druids hard to fit into Yrth's assumptions about religion.

It's close enough. There are actually some fairly important differences under the surface, but it's entirely possible to create a cleric-fighter-thief-wizard party, kill monsters in dungeons, and focus on getting more powerful with cooler feats and spells.

I don't believe we've posted a free PDF as yet. I suspect that's just a matter of time. You could use the GURPS one or this Mook-developed one.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

There are world-building assumptions cooked into DF that would require some adaptation of either or both. For example a standard manichaen polytheism that doesn't exist in vanilla Yrth. By default as I understand it's really intended to let you use GURPS easily with modules intended for D&D and close kin.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I'm running a DF/Banestorm game now & it's been running for 2 years.

For the most-part it works fine. As noted by some, for clerical magic if there's no pantheon, you will have to justify the 'domain' of each cleric when there's only 3 major religions. I say, the cleric is focused on a different aspects of the god that is worshiped.

Other than that, my group has found that having an established map and a rich background to be a lot more of a benefit than drawback.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

That isn't a problem for Dungeon Fantasy (yet anyway) out of the box. What I think would be a problem (for me, maybe not a lot of others given the previous discussion on this) is the agnosticism of the setting, the canonical wizardry healing, and the clash between a setting that is primarily an attempt to rationalize the tropes of FRPGs and a rule set that seeks to embrace them wholly without examination.

I think that if I had to run Yrth DF I would just get rid of clerics, druids and holy warriors. I would then open up the wizard list to all spells. Holy warriors would be replaced by a mystic profession.

I think rather than try to reconcile the disparate themes of the setting and the campaign style, I would instead use Dungeon Fantasy as way to deconstruct the tropes and examine them in a rationalized frame.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

The campaign that directly inspired GURPS Dungeon Fantasy – and through it, the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game – was set in a world designed to support dungeon crawls: It had a trackless central desert, northerly regions held at bay by strings of fortresses, steamy jungle nobody ever returned from, impenetrable mountain ranges, and five sets of unexplored islands. It was in its second age of magic, but remnants of the first age were hidden everywhere: lost jungle pyramids, caves sealed with magical forces, straight-up dungeons . . . even the great cities, supposedly safe and well-engineered, were built upon the ruins of ancient settlements, and their cellars and sewers mingled with dungeons. The magic was giving rise to many monsters. This world was a palimpsest, its new face drawn hastily over a hack 'n' slash realm where might and magic trumped civilization.

Well, one of my secrets is that the campaign itself was the spiritual descendant of not one but two campaigns set on Yrth. I more-or-less saw Yrth the same way, and had the capital-B Banestorm be simply the latest in a long strong of small-b banestorms. Humans were there before . . . and so were other things, and sometimes Things. The latest human religions had social power but not magical power – that resided with the Old Ways. The Old Gods and Elder Gods were both immanent, if subtle; I put GURPS Religion to good use making sure there were real clerics in the world.

So I think Yrth is workable for DF if you're willing to mess with it a bit. You can still use its civilizations and social structures, but it's a lot of fun to have those be a veneer that flakes off once you get very far away from cities and patrolled trade routes. Set the real action of great and supernatural importance in the Blackwoods, Djinn Lands, Great Desert, Orclands, and Ring Islands, and far beneath Zarak, while the political struggles of the civilized kingdoms and empires are just a sideshow – though of course the kings and emperors probably don't see it that way.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Okay, so a few folks are saying that Yrth is an awkward or ill-fitting setting for Dungeon Fantasy.

Can anyone recommend a previously published setting that might fit better for the mood and tone of it?
The setting or world could be by any publisher, heck I might even be able out of print stuff.

Or, here is a thought - Could I use the map of North America in the natural state it was circa 15th or 16th century and turn that into a Dungeon Fantasy setting?

- Ed C.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I ran my first 30+ sessions of Dungeon Fantasy without a map, more than a sentence or two of background material, or anything else like that. People delved and had fun.

So yes, while you could use a map of North American circa 1380 AD as a basis for a setting, I don't think you need to through that much effort.

Your background can be as simple "There is a Town on the edge of a wilderness." That's all you need before you write a dungeon and come up with some rumors and start playing.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

My last GURPS Dungeon Fantasy game was very deliberately set in a world that I was actively improvising, largely as a challenge to myself, and it worked fine.

I think that as far as published settings go, I am really attracted to "The Qanat Pirates of Old Than" in Pyramid #3/64: Pirates and Swashbucklers

As far as North America goes, I have been working on a six-guns and sorcery setting for a megadungeon campaign and it may be my next game.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Pretty much any D&D setting works fine. I've used material for the "Known Lands", "Forgotten Realms", and Pathfinder's "Glorantha" with just a few tweaks to me liking.

The only issues you might have are assumptions on monsters and races. DFRPG Goblins, for example, don't map to Pathfinder's, so you'll either need to ignore the settings assumptions about goblins, or create your own DFRPG version of the PF goblin.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Before somebody takes te right turn at Albequerque trying to get their the current Pathfinder world is "Golarion".

"Glorantha" would take you to the original world of Runequest and that has some pretty eccentric assumptions of its' own even though much dungeon delving was done there (i.e. The Big Rubble and others)

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

You should make a right turn at Absalom, instead.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

D'oh! Yeah, sorry about that. But that just goes to how much the "larger setting" wasn't really important in any of these games. They had a town (or a Keep), and they had troubles from nearby dungeons (or sewers under the town, or old ruins in the woods, or...)

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Honestly, this is where I would start.

—

1. "Make your characters." Okay, we have five PCs.

2. Now look at what they actually need to make sense: One needs a robber baron in the vicinity, one needs an ogre tribe and a warm southern forest with elves, one needs pirates and tropical hardwood, one needs a place with magic and moabi wood, and one needs bandits and yet more ogres. Three have Code of Honor (Outlaw's); two have Social Stigma (Savage). Okay, so that tells us that a good setting would be subtropical coastal forest like the Kwazulu-Cape coastal forest mosaic. The major settlements are ports, and have the usual temples and guilds, but they're also pretty wild and home to all manner of scum and villainy. This is tolerated by the local rulers in part because they're corrupt and in part because it serves as a counterweight against ogres pushing in from the north and hostile elves to the south.

3. Pick a starting town. Any port will do, but since we have two half-ogres and zero elves or half-elves, let's go with a northerly one. Only the swashbuckler, thief, and wizard are likely to go into town, so we're looking at a rogue-friendly place with a Wizards' Guild presence (and probably a strong Thieves' Guild). Magic items and covert-ops gear will be easy to get; battlefield armor and weapons, not so much.

4. Pick a starting adventure. Everybody has six meals' worth of food, so a day's travel inland should do. They'll spend the morning fighting bandits and the afternoon dodging ogres. Then they'll get to the Forbidden Place, where those villains won't go.

That's all you need. Just let it build up over successive adventures and as new PCs sign on (these guys need a healer!), each dungeon and character background adding places and story elements. Don't worry much about the names of barons or pirate ships or even towns until they actually show up on a quest. At that point, either make something up or ask the players to make something up.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Guess I'm just used to having a lot more background detail before starting a game session.

In the past the default assumption is that every so-called 'one-shot' game session might lead to a campaign. With a campaign my most loyal one or two players like to have maps and interesting cultural details.

Does this mean I should give up on running DF and run typical GURPS 4/e instead?

-OR-

Just go ahead and run one or two DF sessions and not stress out about background universe details?

I did make the investment by buying the box set and the GM screen package. Should at least try to put it to use.

- Ed C.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I think the old Greyhawk setting used for the first AD&D 1e modules is a perfect fit for DFRPG. It has a really cool map and a lot of backstory that meshes well with all the baked-in setting implications of the DFRPG. You should have no trouble finding material for it online.

Not to derail the thread, but the mention of Glorantha made me chuckle, because I am going to use the DFRPG to run some classic Gloranthan modules, including Snake Pipe Hollow and the Big Rubble.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I'd not worry so much about setting at first honestly. Or just use a setting for not-gurps. I have players who seem pretty happy just chewing on random dungeons without any plot whatsoever but your mileage with that may vary.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I would think that Matt Mercer's Tal'Dorei would work well for DFRPG. It was recently released, so there's not huge amount to buy, it relies on default D&D and doesn't really add any rules.

You could substitute DFRPG races, bestiary, and magic in it without issue (IMO). I think the only thing you would have to "convert" would be the small section of magic items/relics. But again...it's almost a generic setting with a nod to D&D.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

That would make a great Pyramid article or supplement for Banestorm. ;)

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

ATLANTIS: THE SECOND AGE

You can even get it online at RPGNOW.COM. I don't favor the incarnation of A:tSA, but instead, would recommend the one with the cover of a young woman's face on it. Email me personally I'd you'd like. The maps for the latest edition are with the while.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

You can have a setting background, or not; like most AD&D inspired fantasy games. Banestorm, as written with its assumptions about magic and religion does not make a good fit, but that can be changed. I used Yrth, but changed when the Banestorm event happened by backing it up to roughly 200 AD. In my setting Megalos is smaller, Roman, instead of Byzantine, and still using non-hereditary Emperors, and the Senate still has real power. Local god like entities jumped all over the mishmash of religions available at this time, and pagan religions are an on going item, you do have Jews and Christians, but no Islam. Al-Haz and Al-Wazirf don't exist and are occupied by the various horse lords from Central Asia.

-OR-

If this doesn't work for you, will it not create more stress?

Of course, use the background that you and your players are comfortable with, I've always liked Greyhawk, and it WILL make a fairly good quick fit.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

There's no conflict between using DFRPG and having a pre-detailed setting. There just isn't a setting published for that purpose.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Well not any super detailed, official SJGames, ones. As others have pointed out, old school, and even some newer, kitchen sink FRPG settings are usable with various degrees of conversion required and a few Pyramid articles have DF suitable settings, for GURPS DF, but usable as is for DFRPG, just not full book length treatments.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

One way to mix Banestorm and Dungeon Fantasy would be to say the world is Yrth just like in the book, but a few years ago there was a new banestorm-like event that tossed a bunch of new races, monsters, and treasures in and scrambled magic. A couple of colleges of wizardly magic stopped working, but a select few pious people got access to Clerical magic, and some primitive cultures discovered that their old Druidic rituals started having real effects again.

The big powers of the setting haven't had time to adapt yet, so the setting description works pretty much as-is, but the player characters are involved in the booming business of collecting banestormed-in piles of treasure from ruins and caves.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

It's not as detailed as most rpg settings but you might want to take a look at Fantacide by Rick Priestly, Andy Chambers, and Allessio Cavatore. It's a flat world with a hole in the middle surrounded by The Great Waste of Time. There are winged monkeys with blunderbusses, native American centaurs, the hungry woodlands, and the creatures that claw their way up from beneath to eat your skin and eyeballs. Great place to wander into through a portal or just fall through the hole in the middle.

Anyhow, you could always just use Middle Earth and watch the pure fans squawk and squeal as priests of Thor throw death spells at beholders. :D

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

That's the sort of thing I would totally do! Maybe you had to be there, but back in the late 70s and early 80s, a major part of the charm of FRPGs was throwing in the kitchen sink:

"I read this fantasy novel one time and there's some stuff I want to work in."
"Cool. I skimmed this one my older brother had, called Gor. Also, I just saw Hawk the Slayer and it gave me this idea."
"Awesome! Hey, in history class we just learned about these badass Persian warriors called the Immortals, so I totally want them in the game – only they'll really be immortal!"
"Great, and I'll be putting in this monster my uncle heard about from an old Mohawk guy."
"Guys . . . can we step away from the world-building? I want to talk about my fighter. He's like a half-elf Bruce Lee mixed with Aragorn, and he uses Excalibur."
"Dude, you can't start with an Excalibur. You have to find one, and there are only, like, 20 or something in the world."
"Maybe I can kill a medusa for it?"

Anyway, that's the feel the DFRPG was going for (okay, maybe not Gor). You can actually get a good appreciation for what you can do and how far you can go with just implicit world details – mostly ripped off from random myth, legend, folklore, fiction, and even history – by playing a little NetHack.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I think a simple hex map and gazetteer would be the right way to approach a Dungeon Fantasy world.

I'll try and find time to draw something up.

My thought is that in the middle of the map is The Crucible, an area of semi arid plains that lie between five warring nations. Around the outer edges of the map. To the north: impassible mountains. To the south: impassible oceans, to the east: storm tossed trees. To the west: impassible mountains impassible oceans, and storm tossed trees. Perhaps the dungeons should have a maze of twisting passages, all the same.

The two major nations would be human. The minor ones elves, dwarves, and orcs or hobgoblins whichever's less barbaric and more militant. Other races are found in the mountains and so forth.

The history of the world begins with the ancients, who's cities got covered with silt in a great flood that wiped them out a long time ago. Each race had an epoch they dominated the lands before declining to current borders. The dwarves came south out of the mountains. The orcs came west out of the mountains. The elves came across the oceans and out of the woods to the west. There's probably an indigenous race. The undead are stirring in the desert but aren't yet a major power.

How's that for relatively basic and generic. It's tempting to go to a really balkanized world with more general settlement periods. Which would people prefer?

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

If you want something pre-existing, I would also recommend Greyhawk, especially the area around Greyhawk city itself. Within a dozen hexes in every direction, you have just about every terrain type except tundra and tropical jungle. We loved this when we played AD&D when it was first published. Elf problems in the Gnarly Forest, undead in the Cairn Hills, lizard people in the Mistmarsh, all kinds of spooky options in the Abbor Alz and the Bright Desert. You've got other towns and cities and, of course, the obvious hack-and-slash setting of the Wild Coast with enough piracy and chaos to keep a band of delvers busy for a few campaigns.

With all of that said, to help me buy off my disadvantage of Obsession: World Building, I'm starting my DFRPG campaign with nothing. I'm just going to take notes as we make stuff up and see what emerges. Good notes are always the key. Nothing more frustrating than naming a town and then having to rename it the next month because nobody wrote it down... "But it HAD a name! This new name isn't right!"

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Honestly, that's one reason I keep thinking of Banestorm as being appropriate for a Dungeon Fantasy game, because you can always justify stirring the Fantasy Kitchen Sink pot with a new rush of Banestorms bringing in all sorts of new stuff.

Edit: The other great Fantasy Kitchen Sink setting I used to consider for Dungeon Fantasy was The Wellsprings of Creation, by Matt Rigsby, which was basically a big meta-setting that fitted in every Fantasy-related GURPS article ever written in Pyramid Online at that point, tied in to a world concept of "things constantly being created out of nothing" that excused the Kitchen Sink.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I saw a thread about a week or two ago about all the Dungeon Fantasy (i.e., not the boxed set) material, and how compatible it is with DFRPG. The author even went into the Pyramid articles...

A little searching:

Link to post by Pseudonym

Another link to a post by Pseudonym

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

For my DF / DFRPG open "campaign" (a succession of one shots that I run from time to time at a club when a scheduled table is cancelled), I shamelessly steal from Everquest (original+Kunark mostly).

It provide dozen of areas, cities and dungeons with nice maps.

The players at that club are mostly students, EQ glory days were before their time, so far, nobody noticed...

I renamed most gods/places/organisation, and I moved a few things around, but if I want, for example, a forest with lost temples, I flip to the right map, and my memory of years playing the game give me something to describe, with fauna, flora and various encounters, as well as political and religious influence and a few notable NPCs and rumors.
Even if the scale is wrong, it is enough to give ideas.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

The most annoying thing about winging it is the absence of names. Town needs a name, the tavern needs a name. I realize that the absence of these things is the joke but I think they'd be the primary utility of such a setting.

I was twiddling around with a few generic names for a generic map. Felt they needed to be ordinary but not too silly. I did a Tunnels and Trolls map featuring places like Illregard and Noregard and Noreturnadress but I think that goes too far to set the tone of a Dungeon Fantasy game. It's not that Dungeon can't or shouldn't be silly, but that should be up to the GM and players and not imposed by the setting.

Here's some names I was thinking of using:

High Hold - The good and reasonable human kingdom that's still pretty medieval.

Tarngeld - The grasping mercantile realm which is slowly spreading through conquest and overthrowing guild monopolies. Tarngeld is a mildly evil ream but they don't worship demons or sacrifice children to any god less worthy than profits.

Good Stone - The dwarven realm in exile, having been driven out of their ancestral mountain tunnels by monsters.

Fair Shores - The elven realms along the western coasts.

A bit bland but serviceable but that's a good thing.

The time line needs to leave layers and strata of abandoned underground complexes. I want depth in the dungeon to correspond with how dangerous it is.

1129 Present
1117 Rise of Tarngeld
753 Rise of High Hold
500 - 650 Arrival of Human tribes from the southern seas
300 - present Dwarves driven out of northern mountains

massive flooding buries the lands in silt
400 - 600 Fall of Old Human Empire

-100 - 400 Rise of Old Human Empire
-500 Arrival of Human tribes from the eastern seas
-1000 Fall of Elven Empire
-2000 Rise of Elven Empire
-2000 Arrival of Elves over western seas

massive volcanic eruption buries the lands in ash

-5000 Fall of Ancient Lizardman empire
-5000 Arrival of Human tribes from eastern forests
-10000 Rise of Ancient Lizardman Empire
-15000 Creation of Lizardmen

glaciers withdraw to the north, mountains rise due to weight shifting
massive earthquakes and volcanos shake things up

-1000000 - 10000 Age of the Old Ones

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Best source I've found for names is this site: http://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/

Not only do you get generic fantasy names for anything from Elves and Orcs to Gnolls, Lamias and Dracaenae, but you can generate credible real-world names from a wide range of nations and historical periods, generate a wide range of place and object names for world-building, and even generate names based on existing fantasy/sci-fi properties from King Arthur to X-Men.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

That's neat but I usually have something in mind in tone or feel.

Anyhow, I drew up a map. I'll do a more detailed black and white political version as well.

http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/Sunlit.jpg

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

My DF players & I want a world around them & not just an empty map. It also helps me plan out the campaign. However, there's nothing wrong with doing an adventure or two 'in the gray void'.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

This would ideally require two magic systems so that the stuff you get from the dungeon is really worth getting, that is we can't make it anymore. So how did you handle that?

Yrth is workable for DF. Megalos, Al-Wazif, Al-Haz, and Cardiel are probably too settled for hack n' slash, but most other areas are probably servicable. And it would be nice if we had rules for Sahud's spirit magic.

Wasn't there an official licensed GURPS port of one the D&D settings?

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Why would you need two magic systems? "We can't make it anymore" can be simply due to "nobody knows how" (lost craft secrets that haven't been reinvented yet) or "There just isn't enough mana/divine intervention/virgin wyvern testicles any more".
We're only finally reinventing the full Roman marine concrete recipe, and it's not like the chemistry of concrete has changed in the two-thousand-odd years.

Nope. They did World Of Darkness, Castle Falkenstein, and Deadlands though.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Could scc be thinking of 3E GURPS New Sun?
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/newsun/

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

I'm thinking that'd give you some pretty crazy dungeons. Might be worth a whole book of it's own.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

No idea. I used just one. The difference wasn't "new magic vs. old magic"; the difference was "seriously mature, millennia-old magic vs. rediscovered, a-few-years-old magic." The mages in the previous age knew all the spells, all the methods and tricks for using them, and all the exploits, and were so numerous that they could rally enough power to bother the gods. The tiny handful of emergent mages in the campaign knew mere snippets of that knowledge that were gathered haphazardly from mostly destroyed writings. But they used the same magic system (which was kind-of, sort-of Path/Book).

I'd compare it to mature 2017 tech vs. post-apocalypse Mad Max clones using whatever tech they can rebuild from junk: same tech, but nowhere near as many options or as much availability.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Because if you don't the Second Age of Magic either ends up as a minor footnote, the magic that PC have regular access to is very low, or items brought up out of dungeons are massively over powered.

Nah, my memory itch is saying Forgotten Realms or maybe Dragonlance.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Then you're definitely wrong. You may have seen some elaborate fan site but those IP are WOTC only.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

The PCs had access to minimal magic, exactly as I intended. Items brought up out of dungeons were powerful enough mostly to overshadow the magic the PCs could work, which was also as intended. The items weren't overpowered, though . . . there were foes sufficiently powerful to challenge the PCs and then some.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy(DF) and regular GURPS 4/e questions (Yrth too)
 

Actually that varies depending on when and when the campaign is set in. The period right after June 26th, 1050 CE (the date the Banestorm was cast) was filled with confusion and danger.

I should point out the Blessed advantage exists on Yrth. The Mystic (pg 212) and Priest-Wizard (pg 214) "classes" (professions) are two such examples. This means that there is something "giving" out the equivalent of Magery. This is supported by the fact (revealed in 3e Yrth) that more people know spells then have magery proper even in low mana areas.

A lot is made of the realism of Yrth but even in the c1000 to c1200 when most of the humans were brought to the world Christianity was already fragmented thanks to isolation and the Great Schism that became Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. Heck even in the 2nd century Christianity was fragmented and what little efforts in standardization attempted fell apart with Rome in the 5th century. That anything even remotely like 15th century Christianity exists on Yrth is one of those perhaps there it more here then at first appears hooks for adventures.