Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132160)

Would you guys allow a character who has extreme regeneration to take costs HP as modifiers on advantages? .. this seems like a broken combination to me, especially when he also has ATR. take an advantage for -80% because each use cost 8 hp, use it your first turn, then heal all the damage up your second turn....

Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132160)

Would you guys allow a character who has extreme regeneration to take costs HP as modifiers on advantages? Got a player who wants to but I'm not to sure I'm ok with that. I mean, Its a high point value game so they should be very powerful but this seems like a broken combination to me, especially when he also has ATR. take an advantage for -80% because each use cost 8 hp, use it your first turn, then heal all the damage up your second turn....

Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132172)

I mean, his argument is its slowing down his regen if he is taking or taken damage but....I mean, when you factor the ATR in to that argument is nullified to me. It would take a whole lot of incoming damage for that to matter.

Originally Posted by zoncxs (Post 2132198)

ATR does not increase the amount of HP you regenerate.

Extreme Regen gives you 10/HP a second. Not a turn, not a maneuver, a second. Which means if he has 10HP, ATR 2, and a power that cost 8HP to use, he can use that power on his first maneuver, dropping to 2HP, and his next maneuver he will still be at 2HP, a second has not passed.

In other words make sure they understand that they Regen every second and not every maneuver. I would allow this because of that fact. If you can't kill him in less than a second then he heals, and it won't take much to do it too.

To clarify more.

A second passes once everyone takes a turn.

A turn passes once that person takes all allowed maneuvers.

A maneuver is the action they are taking on that turn, see turn.

Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132200)

ATR specifically says you experience two seconds for each real second.

Originally Posted by Basic Set Characters, pg 38

The first level of this advantage lets you experience time twice as fast as a normal – that is, you experience two subjective seconds for each real second that passes.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2132228)

ATR is difficult to justify under the majority of circumstances. Extra Attack is usually a lot cheaper for the effects that the majority of players are going to use it for (like combat). Of course, ATR (Costs HP, 8 HP, -80%) would only cost 20 points per level, so you could potentially have ATR 10 for only 200 points. Of course, you would spend 8 HP to activate that power and then 4 HP per minute to maintain the power, but you would experience 660 subjective turns during the time that you spent 8 HP.

Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132160)

Would you guys allow a character who has extreme regeneration to take costs HP as modifiers on advantages? Got a player who wants to but I'm not to sure I'm ok with that. I mean, Its a high point value game so they should be very powerful but this seems like a broken combination to me, especially when he also has ATR. take an advantage for -80% because each use cost 8 hp, use it your first turn, then heal all the damage up your second turn....

Originally Posted by P119

Regeneration can have “ER Recovery” or “ER Only” for the
price of “Fatigue Recovery” or “Fatigue Only,”

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 2132596)

I think that before making conclusions about HP regeneration and its 'repurposing' to regenerating HP Cost-related loss of HP, one needs to address the elephant in the room.

Specifically, the Extreme Regeneration with either Fatigue Recovery +100% or Fatigue Recovery Only -0%, which grants 10 FP per second.

Why am I bringing this up?
Because unlike in the case with HP regeneration, there can be absolutely no doubt that the trait is intended to recover the FP that has been spent on powering abilities: there's absolutely no way to lose FP to mundane exertion at a rate that makes Extreme Regeneration worthwhile. Furthermore, according to Powers 119,

which means that Powers 'okays' such usage not only implicitly, but also explicitly.

And costing HP is more disadvantageous than costing FP in that it adds a bigger risk of being taken or outright killed due to spending them (as compared to spending FP).

----

So what the question really boils down to is whether one considers the Costs {Some_Pool} Points is a fair limitation in general (and thus whether it requires a houseruled change like RPK's or some other), and whether Regeneration levels are fairly balanced in general.

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2132214)

Subjective seconds:


Bolding is mine.

There is a difference between the definitions of subjective and objective.

Yes he perceives himself as living "twice as fast", but that doesn't necessarily mean he is living twice as fast.

Unless that is your ruling, in which case poisons are worse for him, he ages a bit faster, takes environmental damage each turn, etc. If that's what you want, it does balance out just fine.

Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132613)

Ya, that is true actually. While cost HP is -10% per instead of -5% like FP it dose cause shock and effectively cut down the amount of HP you are regenerating which if you are taking or have taken other damage is a issue.

Originally Posted by B237

You are at -1 on your spell roll per HP
used. This is instead of the usual shock
penalty for injury, and High Pain
Threshold has no effect.

Originally Posted by weby (Post 2132823)

I have a ruling that HP lost to "cost HP" cannot be recovered by heal/healing spells/regeneration.

But the HP lost to using too many FP can be recovered normally.

The combination seems to work well enough.

Originally Posted by weby (Post 2132823)

I have a ruling that HP lost to "cost HP" cannot be recovered by heal/healing spells/regeneration.

But the HP lost to using too many FP can be recovered normally.

The combination seems to work well enough.

Originally Posted by Kfireblade (Post 2132863)

Really? Seems like if they where to get healed by someone else it would be fair enough. I mean, if you burn FP you can have it recovered by a mage with lend energy.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 2132865)

Do you apply a similar ruling to Regeneration (-0% ER Only)? If yes, why, if no, why?

Originally Posted by weby (Post 2133364)

In my current campaign FP is the limiting resource usually, hiit points are often a problem temporarily, but given the fairly easy access to healing, regeneration and healing elixirs, they are easy to recover.

Thus to keep the limiting, I do not allow Regeneration of ER/FP and things like breath control are heavily nerfed and there is no recover energy spell and so on..

So the actual need for such rule is not needed, as the limit is enforced in other ways.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 2133428)

Ah, so you're talking in the context of a campaign setup which significantly differs from the default assumptions about the availability of speeding up resource recovery.

Originally Posted by weby (Post 2133487)

Fast regaining of (HP,ER,FP) are among the things that break things a lot. So before allowing any such I have to think what limits I want to put on them. The exact limits and methods of course depend on the campaign. But a "Allow everything" simply does not work for such.

The classical ER 20-100, extreme regeneration ER(150) and then buying all powers at high cost FP (10-20 depending on how often you want to use them) and you save a lot of points at high end games.

The same works even better with cost HP if you have high HP as cost HP is not multiplied by your HP/10 but the healing from regeneration is.

In the low end games the issues come up less, but the OP asked about extreme regeneration and in that case there should be an actual disadvantage to a limitation.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 2133491)

That's certainly a PoV with a right to exist and with some reasonable support by arguments.
My point is that your concerns look at a grander issue that the specific of Extreme Regeneration. They're about the fairness of pool regeneration in the broader sense.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 2133491)

That's certainly a PoV with a right to exist and with some reasonable support by arguments.
My point is that your concerns look at a grander issue that the specific of Extreme Regeneration. They're about the fairness of pool regeneration in the broader sense.