I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Had an impromptu game today with a few new players who were intrigued by the box on my coffee table. Had a blast, though we only barely started; we enjoyed a rousing battle with the spiders. This battle, however, made me realize that despite gaming for 35+ years, I don't know how to properly use preprinted combat scale maps. I always drew everything on a wet erase mat or, in recent years, dispensed with scale grids and ran things TotM-style, with occasional visual aids and sketches on a whiteboard.

My confusion centers on the fact that the maps give away the locations of secret doors, hidden passages, illusionary walls, etc. I could cover a wall, but that's not too subtle. Covering all the walls is possible, but awkward, especially with people reaching over to move their figures each turn. When I unfurled the map for the spider battle, I naively expected to see a for-the-players version without the smuggler' den or concealed passage.

What's the standard way to use aids like this? Just tell the players to role play what their characters would know?

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I have no idea. I wouldn't use them, I think they're terrible.

If I run it I'll be having to make my own Player facing maps.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Interesting. I had just read this post http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...79&postcount=6.

He addresses the same concern. It took me a couple of passes to really understand his solution though.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

It can be subtle, to cover one wall as long as you make the coverage look slightly sloppy. Use some paper and just lay it at a slight diagonal. Or emphasize that the maps in I smell a rat are reused for Against the Rat Men. Some of the stuff on the maps is insignificant in ISaR. It's not quite true, but it's close enough. It can also be sorta useful in a couple places to have a map that triggers some suspicions.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Sorry if it was unclear. I basically have a sheet of clear plastic with tracings of the walls minus any secret stuff. And I add things as they discover it.

They're not at all as pretty as the supplied maps, but they don't give away anything either.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I think there is no real way to use the pre-printed maps in "I Smell a Rat". They reveal way too much information. The adventure really should have mentioned how to use (or not use) the map.

I printed simple hex grids on A3 white papers, and as the PCs explored, I drew the map as necessary with a black marker.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

If I didn't already have sheets of mylar, that would've been my solution.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Ah, yes, when I read this I wasn't expecting to play so it just skittered off my brain. I like the idea of tracing out the scale room shapes ahead of time.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Yeah, I was wondering if I missed the blurb in the adventure about how to use the maps. As I laid it out on the table, I briefly thought that it was just for the GM to have somehow behind the screen to keep track of things.

For future products like this, I would recommend taking off all key information (numbers, letters, etc.) and having each location separated from the others with an appreciable gap. It wouldn't function as an overall map, but with folding or covering you could provide an attractive battlemap for each location. An additional benefit is that you can fit more "map" on a smaller poster because it all doesn't have to line up properly.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I'm working at redrawing them without any markings. There will be extra "tiles" with the hidden doors/rooms on them, so you cut them out and lay them down on the map when revealed.

I'm going to release a 300 DPI and a 50 DPI version, one for printing at a print shop with a wide format printer (Business Depot has them in Canada, frex), one for using as a digital battle map.

But I have to finish first :P

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I've been doing that for the GM in an online game I'm in.

It's been almost three weeks of play and we're still on the stairs, so I've got plenty of time... ;)

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

PbP is a little slow.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Sounds fantastic! I look forward to hearing about it when you're done.

On the bright side, we really did have a great time with the game. I honestly can't remember the last time I played an "impromptu" RPG. Usually there's all sorts of planning, prep, and scheduling negotiation. The players loved looking through the Delver's booklet and picked fun characters. Despite being new, they loved the idea of disadvantages.

I screwed up the combat rules in almost every possible way (I'm rusty) but nobody noticed. (Next time I get to tell Aelin that his frostbite spell *usually* takes three seconds to cast...) Come to think of it, maybe the spiders noticed, but they died before they could issue a complaint.

We're hoping to get a second session in later this week. Time to pull the old battlemat out of the garage and buy a new set of markers.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I know that the Powers That Be are watching these threads, so I hope that they make a special note that a battle map with visible secrets is.... useless might be a strong word, but another one doesn't leap to mind.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Yeah, I was confused as a veteran gamer. Admittedly, if I had prepared properly, I would have looked at the maps, realized the issue, and come up with a solution. First-time gamers, however, will assume (as they should) that all of the components of the set are intended to be used as-is. If there is no warning about covering up all the secret doors, then why would someone think to do that?

I picture DFRPG players doing something like what I did when I first played D&D back in 1980. We didn't realize that the map was only for the dungeon master, so we laid the map on the table and played our way through it. Whenever we stood near a secret door, we kept searching until we found it. Even in our youthful zeal, we knew something was wonky about that, but we had no idea what the "right" way to play was.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Same experience with the Red Box here - having nothing but board games to compare to, we assumed the map was a shared game board.

At this point I'm internalizing the maps as "lovely posters".

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I was wondering about all the markings on the map. Well I have a Hex Grid Mat that I can use water based markers with. I'll have to use that. I could also whip up some dungeon tiles in CC3 as well.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Although we still don't have any idea what the intent was. How did they get used in the demo games?

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

In the private sessions at Gen Con, I folded over the map's edges to create a "fog of war." It helped a lot that the first exposure to the map was in area 1, with "Giant spiders want to eat you!" The fight distracted from some vaguely visible lines on the folded-over southern edge.

Players might have noticed exits to the south. However, the heroes hadn't explored the room yet, so the players had no idea whether those exits were meant to be obvious. They wanted to search the room for secrets regardless, so it's possible they assumed the hint of exits to the south was meant to be obvious and they were looking for other ways out. Nobody said, "I search the south wall here and here," or even "I search the south wall"; they just searched.

Of course, my philosophy as a GM is that even if you, the player, know there's a door at X or these special vampires don't like cheese – because you read ahead or peeked at a map – your character doesn't know that until you've made the right rolls for it. That's why the adventure notes: "If the GM sees obvious signs that somebody has read ahead (anticipating every secret is a big clue) . . . well, this is a game. The GM can play, too. Tougher monsters and skill penalties – and swapping a few of the surprises – should keep things challenging!" It's also the reason for Monsters and Player Knowledge (Monsters, p. 5).

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

I'm re-reading the scenario in preparation of this weekends adventures and hit something that I noticed before but assumed there would be a good reason for it and forgot about it until now.

3a is described as covered in mortar and slime.

Since the rest of the map is on the inside, who mortared it over? And did so long enough ago that it has re-slimed? Merle hasn't been gone all that long.

If I were asked this, I'd shrug and say "I don't know. How could that happen?" and let them investigate further (if they really want to know) and maybe find out one of Merle's associates sealed him in as part of a grander plan.

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

Nioce.

This could lead into an adventure... hmmm call it Behind the Liche Door... were our intrepid heros have to discover who Merle's associates were and exactly why just killing Merle didn't stop their Evil Plan, which of course one of the true villains will have to monologue about, right before (or during) the final set piece battle.




What? Two Tv Tropes links. Mwahahahahaha!

Re: I Smell a Rat battle maps (spoilers)
 

And if you don't like introducing anything new about it, you could just assume that Merle could've done it from the inside with magic. There has been some earth magic involved in making the dungeon after all.