Selling to players only...
 

I think it would be a great idea (at least from a consumer perspective) to sell the Adventurers PDF separately. Maybe Spells, as well. Probably 75% of the set is of little use to players, and I think being able to buy one or two PDFs at an appropriate price might open up the market a bit.

Just a thought.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Personally I would really prefer it if players read Exploits. I like it when people have some idea of what they can actually do and how to do it.

In practice most of them are only going to skim Adventures, which if you really wanted to be cynical about you really just could tabulate a list of the templates with brief summaries, and a similar list of the kewl powerz.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I have had a player ask if they can buy just one book in PDF.


Leaving out the adventure is one thing, but I'd say the other three books are worth having for everyone.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

And most players will want to buy Exploits. And GMs may want him/her to buy it. No argument there. But making it a requirement (when it really isn't) means forcing them to spend $60 just to participate and buy a bunch of stuff they may never use. Having Adventurers available alone means the player might be able to get all he needs for only $10 (more or less). Low cost can be an incentive to buy at all.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Adventurers isn't a requirement either. Really you just need one copy of the game for the group.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I could see 2-3 Spell books being handy, between the GM and each spellcaster player wanting to reference spells. A couple copies of the Adventurers books can speed up character creation.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Well, no RPG book is ever a requirement. The GM can just manage combat while everyone else fights over the book.

But, realistically, Adventurers provides the players with a primer on the game and setting, while providing all the information they need to arrive at the table with a character in hand. Beyond that the GM can just manage the flow of information using his knowledge of Exploits.

Think of the old AD&D Player's Handbook and DMG. There were no combat rules in the former. Only character creation information. The GM handled translating player ideas into rules.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

But that's all ultimately technicalities. It would just be good to have the option to have a low entry point for those who want it. I doubt it would do anything but enhance sales.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I think this is a great idea. Adventurers, Spells, and Exploits. And the Character Creation Cheat Sheet (if that's not going to be a free PDF).

I'm likely to print and bind my PDFs (I did with G:DF) anyway, and I'll probably put all of that in one book.

I'm also going to compare the helpful backs of the books to the GM screen and whatever's additionally useful from them, I may print into a separate reference book/sheet.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

No it doesn't, it doesn't really have anything about how to actually play the game and there is no setting worldbook in the boxed set at all. GMs are mostly on their own to provide any setting information for the players.
I would much rather encourage the kind of players who show up knowing how to play and ready to collaborate with each other and me when making compatible and appropriate characters than the kind who insists on making characters in a vacuum and refuses to learn the basics of the game system.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

So, that whole 4-page Introduction chapter and 7-page Basics chapter don't provide the player with any information? And, yes, I know there is no formal setting. The "setting" in DF is the play style. And Adventurers discusses that explicitly.

Okay, you're not into the idea. Noted. For you, there is buying the entire box set. Which exists. Your problem is solved.

But, again, there would be people who are into the idea. People who would normally pass entirely based on cost alone. The 8 people in my group, for example, for whom finances might be an issue. And this would encourage them to spend some money. On GURPS. Which is a good thing.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

No, I am saying that claiming that Exploits is 75% useless for players is simply incorrect. Players really should read it.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I can get behind selling the books separately - not a bad idea - but I can also say from actual play experience that as a player, I end up referencing DF2 far, far more often than DF1.

I need the character templates and creation instructions once, maybe twice, in a campaign, and again if I end up with a lot of points to spend and don't have a plan in place for where to spend them. I need the equipment chapters a bit more often, but generally not more than once for each trip back to town; during the adventure, I'll only occasionally need to reference how a given potion or power works.

By contrast, DF2 is the book that has all of the systems for actually using the skills on the character sheet. I'll reference that (or the Basic Set) multiple times per session, for everything from acrobatics to attack options to climbing rules. It's the 'how to do' for everything.

With Exploits filling the niche of both Basic Set and DF2 for DFRPG, that's the book that I'd far rather have in the hands of every player at the table.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

<MOD>

SP and GB, you two are starting to get into a loop. Please don't let things heat up here. You may have to just agree to disagree.

</MOD>

Re: Selling to players only...
 

No worries. I was already done.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Ditto. Once the character is made i have almost no need to crack that book again (occasionally when my list of "I need to buy this ability next" get's low), but 2 and 16 are goto books.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I've read the entire thread and here I go with a different angle, but from the same perspective:

What about being able to get separate physical copies of this or that book of the DFRPG box. One may want to have more than one Adventurers or Spells books for a number of reasons without wanting to buy additional boxes.

Now this is a suggestion of accessibility blatantly ignoring the publisher's point of view: I understand there are important factors to consider in this kind of choices.

(I'm aware of the PDF versions that can be printed once, and I'm talking of original SJG's printings, not from Lulu or similar.)

Re: Selling to players only...
 

What about POD? That seems to me a viable option for books like Spells which I especially see a mage or cleric player wanting for themselves.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I refer to that with the part between parentheses (by mentioning Lulu and similar), in contrast with SJG printings.

From the consumer perspective it would be nice to be able to get DFRPG books separately.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Sorry I meant the Create Space POD that they have been using with other books,
I should have been more specific.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Oh, I understand now. But with Create Space PoD we would have black and white, or better said grayscale books, like the DF Companion. My point here is about the DFRPG books just the same way they are included in the box, shiny and full color.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

I believe that CreateSpace can do color. The problem is that color gets expensive; for color to look good you need to use more premium paper and, of course, it uses a lot more toner in the printing process. I'm not sure how much more a color book would cost through CreateSpace, but through Lulu it about doubles the price of the book.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

Hi ericbsmith:

No doubt color is more expensive. Concerning CreateSpace: my irresponsible request here is just to be able to get separate copies of the DFRPG books exactly the way they are in the boxed set.

I'd pick one or two right now, starting with Adventurers.

Re: Selling to players only...
 

In recruiting for my online game I had a player with solid standard gurps system proficiency who doesn't own DFRPG. Allowing him to just buy adventurers so he knows what traits are cannon for DFRPG and what traits are not would be handy. As it stands I just have to keep telling him "nope, can't do that".

While it's helpful for players to have read exploits, As the GM I consider myself actually responsible for that information. I don't consider it a requirement for the players to know that back to front.