[DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised Again
 

Scholar

Attributes: ST 10 [0]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 16 [120]; HT 12 [20].
Secondary Characteristics: Dmg 1d-2/1d; BL 20 lbs; HP 10 [0]; Will 15 [-5]; Per 15 [-5]; FP 12 [0]; Basic Speed 6.00 [0]; Basic Move 6 [0].
Advantages: Eidetic Memory [5]; Intuition [15]; and Scholarly Improvisation 1 [30]. • A further 30 points chosen from among the following:

ST +1 to +3 [10/level]
DX +1 [20]
IQ +1 [20]
HT +1 to +3 [10/level]
Will +1 to +5 [5/level]
Per +1 to +5 [5/level]
Absolute Direction [5]
Acute Senses (any) [2/level]
Book-learned Wisdom [7/level]
Fearlessness [2/level] or Unfazeable [15]
Higher Purpose (Seek Knowledge) [5]
Jack-of-all-Trades [10/level]
Language Talent [10]
Language [3 or 6 per language]
Luck [15] or Extraordinary Luck [30]
Scholarly Improvisation 2 [30]
Signature Gear [1/item]
Wealth (Comfortable, Wealthy or Very Wealthy) [10, 20 or 30]

Disadvantages: Curious (12) [-5] • Another -10 points chosen from among the following:

Curious (9) [-7] or (6) [-10]‡
Obsession (learn something dangerous) [-5*]
Obsession (prove heretical theory) [-10*]
Overconfidence [-5*]
Truthfulness [-5*]
Xenophilia [-10*]

• A further -25 points chosen from among the following:

Absent-Mindedness [-15]
Bad Temper [-10*]
Clueless [-10]
Hard of Hearing [-10]
Jealousy [-10]
No Sense of Humor [-10]
Oblivious [-5*]
Odious Personal Habit [-5]
Post-Combat Shakes [-5*]
Sense of Duty (Companions) [-5]
Skinny [-5]
Stubbornness [-5]

Skills: One of these 12 point melee weapon packages:
1. Weapon and Shield: Any one of Broadsword-14 [8], Rapier-14 [8], Saber-14 [8], Shortsword-14 [8], Smallsword-14 [8], or Whip-14 [8], and also one of Cloak-13 [4], Shield-14 [4], or Shield (Buckler)-14 [4].
2. Weapon: Any one of Broadsword-15 [12], Rapier-15 [12], Saber-15 [12], Shortsword-15 [12], Smallsword-15 [12], Staff-15 [12], or Whip-15 [12].
• One of these ranged weapon skills.

Crossbow-14 [4]
Lasso-13 [4]
Sling-12 [4]
Throwing-13 [4]

• All of these skills:

Cartography-16 [2]
Hidden Lore (first choice)-16 [2]
Hidden Lore (second choice)-16 [2]
Hidden Lore (third choice)-16 [2]
Observation-14 [1]
Research-16 [2]
Scrounging-15 [1]
Search-14 [1]
Speed-Reading-16 [2]
Teaching-15 [1]
Writing-15 [1]

• Seven of these skills:

Alchemy-13 [1]
Architecture-14 [1]
Climbing-11 [1]
Connoisseur (Art)-15 [1]
Connoisseur (Luxuries)-15 [1]
Diagnosis-14 [1]
First Aid-16 [1]
Hazardous Materials-15 [1]
Heraldry-15 [1]
Hidden Lore-15 [1]†
Hiking-11 [1]
Meditation-14 [1]
Naturalist-14 [1]
Navigation-15 [1]
Occultism-15 [1]
Pharmacy-14 [1]
Physiology-14 [1]†
Poisons-14 [1]
Prospecting-15 [1]
Psychology-14 [1]†
Riding-11 [1]
Savoir-Faire-16 [1]
Stealth-11 [1]
Strategy-14 [1]
Surgery-13 [1]
Survival-15 [1]†
Thaumatology-13 [1]
Theology-14 [1]†
Traps-14 [1]
Veterinary-14 [1]
Weather Sense-15 [1]

* Multiplied for self-control number; see Adventurers p. 55.
† Requires a specialty, see Adventurers p. 72.
‡ Take cost difference from required trait.

Special Scholar Traits

All these traits have the special prerequisite that they cannot be purchased by someone with Illiteracy.

Book-learned Wisdom - 7 points per level

By reading suitable manuals, you can temporarily learn IQ-, Will-, or Per-based skills. You can acquire spells and special skills if you have appropriate manuscripts, but you aren’t exempt from their prerequisites – including Magery and other spells – so mundane knowledge is usually more worthwhile.

Each Book-Learned Wisdom level allows you to hold one piece of knowledge at a time, equivalent to one character point in that skill. To gain that knowledge, you must study a suitable work for two hours. A Speed-Reading roll halves study time, but the GM rolls in secret and any failure means your memory fails you the first time you try to use your newfound wisdom for an adventuring task!

Given the time requirement, memorizing new abilities is typically done in camp. In light of the weight of books, it might even be best to prepare whatever you think you’ll need before you leave town! Still, there will be times when it’s sensible for the whole party to pause while you refresh your memory on obscure lore from a book in your pack.

Higher Purpose (Seek Knowledge) - 5 points

You are a zealous seeker of knowledge. This advantage gives +1 to any roll made to bargain for books, decipher runes, communicate with sphinxes, and so forth. Unlike a Holy Warrior's Higher Purpose, this has only a single level. Just like a Holy Warrior's Higher Purpose, however, you cannot back down from an opportunity to gain knowledge, or you lose the benefit of this advantage until you make amends.

Jack-of-all-Trades - 10 points per level

The breadth of your knowledge allows you an understanding of tasks which you haven't truly studied in any detail. When you roll at default for any skill that permits such a roll, add this advantage's level (maximum three) to your effective level!

Scholarly Improvisation - 30 points per level

This is similar to Wild Talent (Adventurers, p. 54), but the breadth of your knowledge allow you to transcend certain of that ability's limitations. Chiefly, you do not need to have Trained by a Master to use chi skills, Magery or Bardic Talent to use wizardly spells, Power Investiture for clerical spells, or Power Investiture (Druidic) for druidic ones. You can take as many levels of this advantage as you can afford.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I don't think I would play a scholar without Book-Learned Wisdom, otherwise they are pretty ineffective delvers, IME.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Even though you wouldn't be able to use it to get Area Knowledge (Dungeon) anyway since Area Knowledge isn't a DFRPG skill?

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Well that seems to make the scholar significantly less useful by itself, although getting Hidden Lore as appropriate is probably still useful.

The ability to duplicate a spell or skill once per day alone isn't really worth being unable to fight effectively.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

The profession's combat skills are on the same level as those of a bard or a thief. Are they ineffective in combat?

As to Hidden Lore, consider that since the character no longer needs to spend money on writings to support Book-learned Wisdom, they can spend quirk points to get many Hidden Lore skills.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Mind control and sneak attacks are force multipliers. The new version of the bard is an effective party buffer as well. The scholar doesn't really have anything comparable (beyond being able to cast a spell or use an enthrallment skill once per day).

I know from when I played one, doing 1d-4 or whatever with a repeating crossbow is pretty non-contributory. Of course DFRPG doesn't even have repeating crossbows.

I'm just not sure why you would want to play one now. Without the modular ability, what makes them cool?

The problem with Wild Talent is that it makes you like a low level wizard in older versions of D&D (or the wizard in HeroQuest), once you pop your ability you are done, if that's the only effective thing you can do. Might as well go for a snack run for everybody else.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Area Knowledge (Dungeon) is actually a thing? That seems pretty broad, unless there is one local mega dungeon, like Rappan Athuk.

It seems like Expert Skill (Dungeons) would be a better choice there.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

It is if you have a map.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

IQ one level above the Wizard at base and potentially IQ 17, making you one of your world's Leonardo da Vincis. Sign me up, signor.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I guess if being smart while being eaten by trolls is fun.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Yes. I would say so.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I play one now* and I refused to take Book Learned Wisdom because I see it as a failure of an ability.


* Kinda. It's a Sage, so a 125 point character. but the point still stands.

Getting the last and most smart-alecky word in is always fun.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I always like the idea of playing a scholar, but reading the template left me wondering what it was really like to play one in practice.

Wild Talent is great...once per game session, you can do almost anything (especially IQ-based skills or spells given your high IQ)...but once you've used it, that's it for the session. It stops you intruding on other template's niches, but it looked handy in an emergency.

Book-Learned Wisdom on the other hand is flexible, but takes ages - two hours per character point to memorise plus having to carry the weight of books around (even carrying multiple Primers around adds up fast) means that you can't easily reslot abilities mid-delve.

The Hidden Lore and other skills are nice, but I'm not sure how effective they make a delver compared to other templates.

The Sage template seems a little more flexible on paper than a Scholar, with more choice, if I wanted to play a scholarly character I might be tempted to build up a Sage to 250 points than a Scholar, that way I can avoid Book-Learned Wisdom

If you don't mind me asking, how do you find playing a Sage? How does it compare with other characters?

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Yep, Book Learned Wisdom is what Scholar's are all about. Personally I wouldn't say it's a very useful thing, it's a good back-up to an existing build, but it shouldn't be you entire character.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

In almost all cases I personally feel those points are better spent on skills... which is what I did.

They aren't a front-line fighter. What they bring is knowledge.

Does that unknown beasty have a targettable weakness? What are it's powers? How is it likely to attack? Are it's remains valuable? Hidden Lore.

And of course all the other skills.

My choice if I were to remake the character would be to go the Jack-of-All trades route rather than the Dabbler route... but Dabbler ain't been bad.

My build is more of a "Let's make a 3/4s Sage, 1/4 Agent, a dabbling in Thief (Lockpicking and Traps), with Psionic Background*, and a bunch of languages".

Honestly a almost a fifth of my points are in languages and Language talent (24 points). The character does a lot of poorly Accented talking...


* It's for later expansion into a powerset... but since I've discovered I really hate the way Psionics have been built, not sure I'm going to pursue it.

Again, ain't no front-line fighter**. Though my build is [barely] adequate on the armor side and has a Staff for doing the "All-Out Defense" thing as his disads keep getting him into the front and second lines anyway.


** Which I'm okay with. I've got three other character I play in other games that can do that (okay two of them can do that, the fourth is a 'utility Wizard' with 'terrible' combat skills (though not as bad as the Sage's)).

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Anyone able to give an off topic Rules Clarification in GURPS? Have a question about self control vs. will?

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Please start a new thread for that.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Can anyone tell me how to start a new thread. I have a specific Rules question

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Go to the GURPS subforum and push the "Start New Thread" button.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

That's what all the beefy meat shields in front of you are for.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

The scholar is hived off in a little supplement with the artificer because neither profession suits all Dungeon Fantasy campaigns.

In the specific case of the scholar, the character type is essentially "the NPC sage of first-gen tabletop RPGs, but as a PC." It isn't viable as a delver unless the GM's taste in adventures runs to heaping on punishing task penalties for lacking obscure, need-this-once-in-a-career skills; concealing vital clues behind otherwise-worthless languages; and maneuvering the adventurers into dead ends as the penalty for not doing their homework. The idea is that once the party finds a quest, the scholar pores over books and maps, memorizing all the knowledge necessary to serve as their tour guide, translator, and code-breaker when it comes to finding the dungeon and interpreting its subtle warnings.

The coolest part is that the scholar can reset to do this on every adventure without spending further points on new languages and skills. In effect, the initial points in special abilities can be reused to cover this need forever. Of course, resetting happens in town – dragging books around to do it in the field is deliberately a pain as a curb against excessive cheese. ("Oh, I'll just whip out my notebook and reconfigure my brain like Neo in The Matrix" was never the goal . . .)

If the GM is more fond of the "Here's the dungeon – start slaying and looting!" approach to the genre, and admits brute-force or magical workarounds to lack of specific knowledge, makes sure that no single clue is essential to adventure success, and is always open to the heroes backing out of a dead end to try another path . . . well, there's nothing a scholar can do that the party's bards, scouts, thieves, and wizards can't do better. Then the scholar's points in special abilities are wasted and the character becomes nothing more than a one-shot caster with no cool combat moves.

Note that this thinking applies equally to many professions. Why play a holy warrior, for instance, if the GM's campaign is all about fighting orcs, orcs, and more orcs (and the occasional ogre or troll), and there won't be any undead or demons? Just play a cleric or a knight. Why play a shaman outside of a campaign that involves dealings with the Spirit World? Just play a cleric, druid, or wizard.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

We have a definitional difference of the word viable. Maybe...


The Sage/Scholar is not a 'front-line' anything (neither fighter nor caster). It's a Support role (even more-so than the Thief). If you enjoy support roles, it's viable. If your game can handle one of the PCs in this role, it's viable.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

As I said:

Emphasis added. Your "if" and my "unless" say very similar things. Your game being able to handle one of the PCs in this role is essentially contingent on the GM allowing that by running suitable adventures. If the GM runs all adventures as start-to-finish combats on a map with pauses to loot – and I know people who run Dungeon Fantasy exactly like that! – then your game won't handle the dead weight of a PC who can't contribute to the never-ending battle.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

This sort of thing also cascades out to other choices, beyond overall template and niche.

If the campaign is all about fighting orc, orcs, and more orcs (all of whom are melee dudes) then the party will focus on impaling weapons and the skill to do Vitals (or Eye) hits, spells to disarm, break weapons and shields, and bypass equipment-based armor, and everything that exploits the flaws of low IQ and low Will opponents while completely neglecting tricks that target low ST and/or low HT. They'll completely ignore resisting magic, they'll ignore the problem of traps, they'll never have to cross a narrow ledge, scale a wall, swim a leech-filled canal, sneak past a sleeping dragon, handle wild animals, or talk to anything - and suddenly the martial artist, thief, druid, and bard's players all ask to reroll as knights, scouts, swashbucklers so they can actually do things. They'll all equip with pointy weapons, they'll all have shields, and they'll only ever target Vitals or Eye.

I've seen this happen in multiple game systems.

Now, if you have a group of players that only likes to play knights, scouts, and swashbucklers, you probably should build a campaign that focuses on tracking down evil humanoids, murdering them, and then going back to Town to flirt with the waitstaff at the Tavern. They'll have a blast doing it, and you'll have an easy time structuring challenges for them that you're sure they'll be engaged in and can cope with.

If you have a party with a thief, a druid, a barbarian, a scout, and a scholar, and you put them in the All Orcs All The Time campaign, things will go south quickly.

EDIT: The problem that can happen to a GM with a one-note campaign is the PCs becoming extremely hyperspecialized and exploding all the orcs on contact (for example). This can get boring for everyone. The usual advice is "well, change it up!" but now you have a party who is hyperspecialized for orcslaying. A 350 point orcslaying party can get unexpectedly splattered when suddenly confronted with some icky goo - it's nearly all Diffuse or Homogenous, it has no hit locations, it relies on buckets of HP instead of armor so you can't target chinks, it's mindless so you can't mind control it, you can't poison it, you can't sneak up on it... and often it oozes right past your armor, uses a gas-based attack, or eats your armor, and your shield.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

That does help put it into perspective, thanks.

I do like the idea of playing a character who does lots of pre-adventure preparation along the lines of "we're raiding the Orc Caverns, best get out the Textbook on speaking Orcish", or "we're meeting the Elven Princess this session, best brush up on my etiquette, where's that Primer on Savoir-Faire (High Society)". I think I was taking the example in DF4 a little too literally, where it sounded to me like Mandrake the Mad carried around a library in his pack, whereas I can more easily see a character taking along a book or two for use in emergency, and leaving the rest in Town.

I agree with the point that it is contingent on being in a campaign that supports that style of play, there's no point playing an intellectual character if that niche isn't necessary as the GM accepts workarounds for lacking those skills. I guess it comes down to making sure that the GM and players are singing from the same songbook when starting the campaign and that they have compatible expectations.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I think Kromm is overstating a bit, which is why I disagree with his definition.

I'm playing in a campaign where that niche isn't necessary. However, the GM is more than willing to let that Support be useful, just not vital.

Mostly I think the GM is happy to have a PC that can exposition dump world info on the party... as well as explain the plot. When he remembers that not everyone speaks or reads all the languages he does (it a Play-by-Post and I sometimes forget I'm the only one that can read those 'secret' messages).

While I doubt my fellow Players bemoan my PCs lack of combat capacity*, I'm sure they're also happy to get slightly more buck for their buck (Merchant and good Reaction Rolls) and they seem to be the types to enjoy knowing what they're up against (Hidden Lore and other skills). Yes, it's been close in combat, but I think the razor's edge is fun place to live on**...


* He has certain "one-shot" magic spells (a few utility and combat AoE) in an enchanted staff. By one shot I mean, it's a costly use of FP and leaves him pretty spent for the rest of the combat, not being a Wizard and those spells being at the default skill 15 for being an enchanted item.

** Inversely my Barbarian Ogress in one of the GM's other games is also a lot of fun just smashing all the foes and rarely ever feeling threatened... so there's also that.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Note I am not saying that I don't see the point of the scholar. I am saying that I don't see the point of the scholar without Book-Learned Wisdom. Being one point smarter than the wizard isn't meaningful if you don't do anything with it and you can hide behind armed guards and be ineffective without leaving town.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

If the GM is planning individual adventures and in fact the whole campaign around specific heroes created by the players, as several people have suggested, no profession will be useless. This is why the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series and the Dungeon Fantasy RPG offer explicit advice on making everybody useful. As a designer, though, it's important to acknowledge that many GMs, perhaps the majority, don't do this. While some such "top-down" GMs (ones who create a campaign first and then run it no matter what PCs turn up) include cerebral and civilized elements alongside dungeon crawls, most DF fans lean more toward the violence-filled model – which to be fair is traditional for slay-and-loot adventure – wherein there's little reason to expand beyond the priest-rogue-warrior-wizard quadrangle.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

And do you think that Book-learned Wisdom is an appropriate advantage for the simplified set of advantages presented in the DFRPG? I considered including it, but the price structure was too complicated, and it can't be used for Area Knowledge anymore.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I don't think either of the sages are especially appropriate for straight DFRPG, and if people want to add them back in DF4 exists as a ready-to-use expansion (DFRPG already includes the rules for scrolls).

More to the point though is that Book-Learned Wisdom is why I personally want to play a scholar, without it I'd rather play a wizard or bard; having a higher IQ score by one is pretty irrelevant to my interests in playing a character in an RPG. Now obviously evileeyore disagrees, so clearly there may be people who like this version enough to play it.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

For me it was more points for skills... since I made a Sage and the IQ didn't end up higher than a Wizard's (125 points don't stretch as far as 250... okay, the PC's IQ might be higher than our party 'Wizards", I'm not sure... but he does have the highest Per in the group).

If I had the full 250? Scholar IQ, Omnilingual, and Jack-of-All Trades... probably a bit better at hitting with the staff (instead of a skill of 12, probably 14-16 range). Drop: Dabbler and individual Languages... might even have a Psi power if I can figure out how to make them not be terrible, but still keep the flavor.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

My game had a lot of fun with the Mentalist (yo dawg, I heard you liked encounters, so I put encounters in your encounters), to the extent that I needed an expanded table because we were getting the same results over and over.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

I think the Sage is about more than plot exposition. When I run dungeons, I tend to run them holistically. You don't go "room to room," you tackle a broader conundrum, and I like building mysteries into my dungeon, using the same sort of logic that I use in my gumshoe games: you always have enough information to make it through the dungeon, but if you have superior problem-solving skills, you can bypass a lot of problems and gain access to superior things.

To me, this is the role of a character like a thief. He can find the hidden passages that let you bypass the well-guarded room, or slip in to steal the key from the sleeping guard captain, thus allowing people to achieve success without killing monsters and taking their stuff. I know that's not necessarily the standard model, especially since D&D and its culture has moved towards all combat all the time, but it was definitely an acceptable older model, and it's one I personally like to use.

Intellectual classes, like the Wizard or Cleric, beyond their magical abilities, tend to be good at deciphering texts or knowing a monster's weakness, or knowing some vital historical fact that will let the players accomplish something. This goes beyond informing the players of useless background information like "This dungeon is really the tomb of Argon the Awful, who is rumored to have become undead," and into things like finding a way to appease the spirits of the place, or even get them as allies against some other threat in the dungeon. It's the same sort of logic you see in a Monster Hunters game, but where in a Monster Hunter's game it's what the game is all about, in DF, it's one of many themes you can employ.

The Sage represents a purity of this particular thing. If a swashbuckler is part fighter and part thief, then a wizard is part magic and part sage. The sage, by contrast, is pure sage. And his ability to shift his skills around means he always has highly pertinent skills. Perhaps your wizard knows about the past and the undead, and thus can help you with Argon the Awful, and the Sage can too, but in the next adventure when the problem is Allura the Alluring and her faerie court, the wizard's lore is less useful (though is magic remains useful), but the sage can shift to Fae lore and know what's up.

I love these sorts of games, where things like language and history and secret lore really matter, so the sage works well for my games. I've played in other games where these were seen as a hassle, mere background info not worth points, so I can understand where Kromm argues this is very dependent on the GM and his campaign style.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

The scholar then is sage/sage? I think it's probably easier just to consider the 125 point template half a scholar than to count the 250 point template a double sage...
Note that Book-Learned Wisdom is actually what we are discussing here. The sage doesn't have it by default (although it is one of the template's optional advantages), the scholar does, but the version in the OP does not.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Book-Learned Wisdom made me say "This is the class for Red Mage from 8-bit Theatre!" - the ability to re-write his character sheet as needed. And then Wild Talent is his ability to get away with sometimes fudging the rules and using an ability he doesn't really have.

This thread's version of the template is more like an OD&D first-level spellcaster with his one spell per day and being a generally mediocre-but-not-abysmal fighter and general-purpose scholar when not magicking.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Okay, the feedback in this thread has persuaded me that ditching Book-learned Wisdom altogether may have been a mistake, so I've added a simplified version of the advantage as an optional advantage to the profession in the OP, as well as another advantage that gives the character the ability to do well with skills they haven't yet purchased. I hope that this is an improvement.

Re: [DFRPG] The Scholar, Revised
 

Really digging the simplified Book-Learned Wisdom and nice simple use for Speed-Reading rolls.