[4e] Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

Hi

first of all, thanks for all the help I have gotten again and again in here. Love you guys and girls.

The Weapon Master advantage (b99) with 2 weapons says:

Two weapons normally used
together. Examples: broadsword and
shield, rapier and main-gauche. 25
points.

I am in a fantasy campain, and I have (throwing axe and Large shield) (not sure if this is correctly made by the rules)

however given that my character is a dwarf that have crafting skills and sometimes work like a smith, I plan to make the axe a axe with a hammerhead on the other side of the stick. Sometimes skeletons are a problem after all.
so acording to LT companion 2 page 14:

Hammer Head
A swung, hafted cutting or impaling weapon can have a
hammer head behind its striking head. Damage is that of its
usual swinging attack, but crushing. Base cost is +$25.
Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Swung, hafted cutting or
impaling weapons.

So all in all, does my weapon master also cover the attack with the hammerhead? or do i need to extend my weapon master to a higher class like (dwarven weapons) and add something in here with my GMs permission?

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

If you're already covered for ax and you're adding a hammerhead that works exactly like the blade but does crushing damage and is covered by the same skill, I wouldn't make you pay any extra for that.

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

Strictly by RAW, the 20, and 25 point levels of Weapon Master apply to specific lines on the weapon table. E.G Throwing axe but not Axe. Adding the hammer head would have added a line for the cr damage mode on the weapon table, making it a different weapon. So by RAW, you would need to go to 30 points for a small class of weapons (Axes and Shields, say).

I think you could probably get your GM to give that one a pass as a houserule though. Of course, by the time you have finished modifying a weapon PROPERLY, well, your GM may be less inclined to indulge your request :) :) :)

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

As chandley said, by the letter of the rules, Weapon Master covers specific weapons as laid out in the weapons tables, and adding a new thing probably makes it a new weapon. As a GM, though, I definitely wouldn't charge a whole level of Weapon Master - if the new weapon stats did less damage and wasn't notably better in some other ways, I wouldn't charge any points at all, and even if it was a bit better, I think I'd only charge 1 point, effectively a perk. You can't do this too much before it's more efficient to just buy up the next level of Weapon Master anyway, so I think it's not unbalanced.

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

It is still a throwing axe, no matter if its get a custom job right?

either way, if we look at helbarts and the like, they have multiple attacks modes, all benefitting from weapon master.... i wonder if this case is simular?

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

It is, but maybe not in the way you think. If you buy Weapon Master (Throwing Axe with Hammerhead) [20], you get the WM bonuses for whatever you do with a Throwing Axe with a Hammerhead. However, you mentioned you have Weapon Master (Throwing Axe) [20]. That doesn't apply, by RAW, to a Throwing Axe with Hammerhead. They are different weapons.

Weapon Master (Axes) [30] would apply to both, however.

So. Weapon Master (Unnatural Pollaxe) [20] applies to every damn thing on that pollaxe, however ridiculous, but doesn't help one bit with a normal pollaxe. Even though everything on a normal pollaxe is subsumed in the unnatural one.

Many GMs are at least a little lenient on this however.

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

I say its still the same weapon.

If you didn't put the hammerhead on the back of the it, but you hit with the back of it anyway isn't it still the same weapon? If you do a pommel strike with the butt of the handle, isn't it still the same weapon?

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

I'd draw the line for single weapon at does it change any of the weapon's statistics? Yes? Not the same weapon.

One key test is probably Weapon Master (thrusting broadsword). If this is different from Weapon Master (broadsword), well, sharpening the point is about the minimum possible change you could make to a weapon. If that's enough to change categories then there's no way adding anything extra does not.

Re: Weapon master advantage and modified weapons?
 

okay, thanks for all the answers

did not try to provoke anyone, just hoped it covered. Will have a talk with my GM and let him see our discusion, så he can make a fair ruling.

however, shold anyone have more to say on the matter, I would love to hear it.

and if either Krum or Pullover have anything to add, please o please do!