Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

Not sure why you are so hostile, but two things:

1) GURPS books are having trouble with distribution because there aren't enough coming out to warrant space on Store shelves. Also, more and more books are going out and not being reprinted.

2) I had thought 1 GURPS book was released this year, I was off by a total of 1.

I own every print book pushed with the exception Vorvorkosigan, Mars Attacks, and Discworld (not really interested the licenses). While I don't own everything released electronically, I have spent several hundred dollars on PDF products. I also own HUNDREDS of 3rd edition books in print form (used to collect them). Hell, I even have copies of Prisoner, Scarlet Pimpernel, Witchworld, Humanx, and Russia. I believe taking a few queues from the previous editions, along with some revisions to the current one, produced as a new version with regular releases, "could" have a very positive impact on the line. What I can tell you is that without some changes the line is going to continue to Diminish.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

I honestly don't see how a new edition could possibly help the current situation. 4e doesn't have a lot of "Chaff" to clean; the major problems with it could be addressed in other ways (such as the ideas about making a "GURPS Medium" which we discussed quite thoroughly upthread; or with more box sets like the Dungeon Fantasy RPG). It would also take a lot of writing and editorial time away from making new books, which means even fewer products for a year or more while the new edition gets written and edited.


This is true. But the distribution problem also has to do with FLGS being out-competed by Amazon and other online retailers. There aren't as many stores as there were 15 years ago, and the ones that are still there aren't as interested in RPG products - especially with the resurgence of the board & card game market which is virtually guaranteed sales.

As for the out of print books, I will note that in the last year they have brought almost every important core 4e book to availability with true Print on Demand through CreateSpace. The only "core" book that's currently not in print or available through PoD is GURPS Supers.

If you ignore PDFs, Pyramid, and the upcoming Dungeon Fantasy RPG you'd almost be right.

The problem is that the market has changed a lot in those years since the 3e days. A more full production schedule is completely independent of a new edition. It would be nice to have more books coming out, and it might push sales, but if it turns out the market isn't there then you're shoveling good money after bad. If SJGames is going to shovel good money away they're likely going to do it on Munchkin, because that pays all the bills.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

So the problem I have with a "book of templates" would be that it would be huge, and that there would inevitably be sequels to that book -- at which point you'll wonder "which volume it is again that contains the belter station mechanic template for THS? Or the speedster super hero? Or the uplifted monkey InfiniteWorld agent?".

Now I agree that there is indeed a problem there to solve -- I just don't like the idea of a "random bunch of templates for all kinds of settings" (but hey, I agree it would be an improvement already... I just think we could do better is all).

I would like something like an "always updated" sort of topical book for each given genre/setting, but I don't think there is any precedent yet for this. I imagine something like, say, a DF templates PDF that gets updated as new DF books are released with a few new templates. Same thing for, say, Monster Hunters or other genres where, at the moment, there's generally only one PDF with templates (usually the first volume of a given series), but, as the series grows and gets new templates, the "template compilation book" gets updated. And because that compilation book is both only specific to a genre and kept up to date, we avoid the problems of multiple volumes of mixed stuff.

Edit: In the meantime, see this thread.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

1) If releasing more books on shelves was the issue then SJ Games could just release more 4E, 3E or even yes 5E books.


2) There were several classic and four '4E' books in PDF.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

If people want templates (and that could be cool) then I think an online resource would be much better. I doubt anyone actively doesn't have access to the internet when making characters these days.

Why not have a wiki or community library of theses, but sanctioned by SJG? The good thing about templates is that you can't really use them without the books, so it's not even like you are potentially cannibalising sales.

Again, the answer is to enable the user community in my opinion.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

Templates tend to be very setting-specific. Okay, you can do a blandly generic (and quite useful) fighter, or investigator, or suchlike - but a Discworld "Assassin" is a very different beast to a Dungeon Fantasy "Assassin", and neither will look anything like an "Assassin" for Action!, let alone Arabian Nights. And Igors and Golden Children and Speedsters are totally context-specific, to name just three of dozens. And that's before we start talking starting point levels.

The 3e template books were quite fun (if not necessarily very space or cost-efficient), and someone might do a decent 4e supplement of blandly generic near-universal character type templates for them as want to start with those character types, but mostly, templates belong in setting or genre books.

(Reminds me; probably ought to chase the editorial staff about a certain proposal outline...)

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

This I agree with. Even if you wanted to do a combined template PDF, I just took a look over the Official Occupational Template List and there are currently 554 templates listed there from dozens of sources. Even if you could compress each of those templates to 1/2 page each you'd be looking at a minimum of a 240 page PDF, and most of those templates take up well over 1/2 page.

You also are not solving the primary issue with GURPS character creation - that there are too many choices - you are just moving that problem to up one level. Now instead of offering too many advantages, disadvantages, and skills to easily sort through and make sense of you are providing too many character templates to meaningfully sort through.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

On their own, yes, they're all third grade math skills. But for a complex character there are a lot of them. I'd say it's an even 50-50 chance that when a player hands me back a character sheet and I re-do the math or enter it into GCA, the points don't add up.

Yes, I am. I like hyperbole and humor.


Your point about the wildcard skills can be brought back here: there's a lot of simplicity that is gained by using them, with only a slight reduction in mechanical realism in the places that matter to me. I don't like playing D&D because, first off, it's entirely geared toward combat and dungeon crawling, and second, the parts that are geared toward combat and dungeon crawling don't have a "realism" dial that goes below 5 on a scale of 1 to 10. GURPS solves both. But wildcard skills aren't central to the system and whenever I use them they feel like a kludge. And they don't solve the point salad problem (to draw a term from another area of gaming) that comes with things like powers and defaults.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

True, though the current situation is less than ideal as well. The templates are scattered around in various books - and even within a given genre they're scattered around in those various books. And they're not really foregrounded in any way, with the exception of Dungeon Fantasy (...where theyr'e scattered around in various books).

I find myself about to say something that makes my own skin crawl off my body: maybe it would be worthwhile to have a digital, official, regularly updated templates document.

I can't believe I just said that. I hate PDFs.

Re: What GURPS needs... now
 

Reminds me of RIFTS...