Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

I figured it couldn't hurt to share a little bit of behind-the-scenes info about the pieces of bonus content that you've seen (or will be seeing) in support of the Dungeon Fantasy RPG Kickstarter.

Feel free to discuss these either here or in the main DFRPG thread. All six designer's notes are listed (and linked) below.

1. Bonus Character #1: Lyndon Glibtongue (post #2)
2. Bonus Spell #1: Retribution (post #45)
3. Bonus Monster #1: Fae Reaver (post #55)
4. Bonus Character #2: Amira Tiro (post #58)
5. Bonus Monster #2: Squirrel-pion (post #62)
6. Bonus Spell #2: Land Mine (post #67)

These are not taken from the box set's books, but are instead little pieces of extra content exclusive to those participating in this Kickstarter. All characters are valid starting PCs, all spells are canonical, and all monsters are balanced for GM use.

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

Bonus Character #1:
Lyndon Glibtongue

(Introduced in this Kickstarter update.)

Lyndon Glibtongue was my first Dungeon Fantasy PC, so this write-up is an homage to my disingenuous-but-likable bard (with notable differences, as bards received a bit of a revamp in these updated rules). It's important to realize that Compulsive Lying and Sense of Duty (Adventuring Companions) are not mutually exclusive; Lyndon won't lie to his friends about important tactical data that could get them hurt, but will otherwise find ways to cast himself as the hero. "We were attacked by a dire wolf while I was on watch, but I managed to drive it away without waking you. You all need your sleep, and it was no match for an archer like myself."

If I were playing this version of Lyndon, I'd use his earned character points to raise his ST to 11 and then to bump his Bow skill one or two levels. After that I'd take advantage of his Magery to learn a couple of Seek spells followed by Seeker, at which point the bard's mastery of Knowledge spells becomes a lot more fun. Or delve into the bard's Sound college for some useful ways to attack and misdirect.

His dream weapon is a ST 13, balanced, elven, composite bow (1d+3 imp, Acc 4, Range 260/325), which would be a 35-FP power item despite costing him "only" $17,010 (thanks to Elven Gear) before any enchantments like Penetrating Weapon and Puissance.

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So Bards do get Sound now? Excellent.

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

I was gonna be happy as well, but then I realized that he got Magery 0 from being a (wood) elf and is probably how he can now get Sound spells. Until I get confirmation that Bards naturally get access to the Sound college, I shall keep my jubilation restrained.

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

Bards absolutely now have access to Knowledge and Sound spells; his Magery 0 just gives him a wider net to cast when it comes to choosing specific spells (like the various Seek [X] ones that I mentioned).

That's part of the reason for the increase in Bardic Talent. If you look carefully, you can see the other reason on Lyndon's sheet. Just like you can see how racial templates have changed in general.

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

In that case, my jubilation now knows no bounds.

BOOOOOYAH!

Looks like the other reason happens to be an increase to musical skills similar to the Musical Ability talent which strokes my interest in Faun Bards even more.


I'll be honest and say I can't really see much difference in the Racial Lenses so far, but that's probably because I've always used GCS program and have it separated out from the class templates. Can't wait to see what all have changed though with the classes. Really hoping for a good Holy Warrior template as well.

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Cool! Bardic Talent counts as magery for thier spells.
He has skill-15 [1] with IQ 14 and Bard talent 3

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

But. . . it's always been counted as Magery for their spells.

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Really? Sorry than. Never actually played or ran DF so I thought this is what PK was referring to.
I just mine ideas from the series.

Ok looked up DF 1 to compare and it appears Bardic Talent [8] and Musical Ability [5] were merged into a single 10 point Talent.
Not a major change but a nice one. Save 3 points, simplifies the sheet and frankly just makes sense. Now getting better with music and spells is done at the same time instead of choosing between them.

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

Well there's nothing wrong with mining ideas from it, I do the same with a lot of other things out there such as wanting my Holy Warrior to have the Blessed: Armor of Faith from GURPs fantasy as a Holy Might ability. But yeah, Bardic Talent is definitely Magery but before DFRPG it didn't give a bonus to skills like Musical Composition, Musical Instrument, or Singing. So it's now both a skill and power talent from what I can identify.



Side note, Bards are my favourite class in ANY RPG setting. Holy Warriors are my second favourite in the Dungeon Fantasy setting.

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I see both Musical Instrument and Public Speaking now have the Bardic Talent notation on them. I presume it still adds to Bard Song rolls.

I can see it's not listed as a monolithic line item - the parts have been added to the character "loose", so to speak.

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I really like the clean layout for most of the sheet, but have one issue: the top "stat block" is incredibly cabbagey. I would have preferred to see a bestiary-style stat block with points listed, rather than the ST 12 [34]; DX 56 [78]; IQ 90 [12]; HT 34 [56] fashion nightmare that's been used in the past. Apart from layout considerations, I can't imagine why this would still be considered acceptable, when a much better alternative is already available and has been used in Dungeon Fantasy supplements already (for example, DF9-Summoners pp. 21ff). Readability is incredibly important and that stat block just falls right on its face.

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Looks like. I've been doing it this way myself for a while now, though admittedly that's partly because when I read the old bard template the first time I failed to notice that there were multiple talents involved. I ended up just building my bardic power and templates from Musical Ability alone.

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Can I ask what "cabbagey" is? I've read your entire post, and I'm still feeling a little at sea.

Also, now I kind of want to write up a cabbage patch kid.

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"Cabbage" is what we used to call the bits of torn paper on the edges of a sheet that's been pulled from a spiral bound notebook. So by "cabbagey" I mean "messy," and by "messy" I mean "confusing."

I'd much rather see the stat block as:

ST-----HP-----Speed
DX-----Will-----Move
IQ-----Per-----SM
HT-----FP
Dodge-----Parry-----DR

...as it is in DF9-Summoners and elsewhere. It's cleaner and easier to read. Not cabbagey.

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So, I started dissecting the character a little bit. Didn't see anything overly interesting in most of the character; points seem consistent. Did notice that there doesn't appear to be an "Elf" template bonus like there used to, instead racial templates apparently just add some traits to the character, and those traits are treated like any other traits the character has. This is cool, and makes things easier for newbies.

I did notice one anomaly with Signature Gear, Trading Points for Cash, and his gear. Normally Signature Gear must cover the entire cost of the equipment item; at $500 per point that means that two points in Signature Gear should have covered his bow, leaving $1000 for other gear. Instead he has one point in Signature Gear, trades one point for cash, and has a total of $1500 in gear (which would jive with $1000 Starting Money and $500 more from Trading Points for Cash, per the rules from Dungeon Fantasy). This leaves me wondering if Signature Gear has changed and no longer covers the cost of the gear.

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Per Kromm, Signature Gear has been changed to "[work] like gamers always felt it should."

See the third paragraph from the end in this article: https://medium.com/@SJGames/dungeon-...s-297a1bd8371b

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I dont know the details but Kromm did say he changed Signature Gear

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Ahh, I either missed or didn't remember seeing that. I'm guessing that SG now just covers/protects a piece of equipment and it must be paid for separately. I'm wondering is SG is still leveled - that is, does the Millenium Falcon now cost the same as a regular Composite Bow. I'm guessing it's probably a sliding scale of some sort.

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This is a very good suggestion.

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I've used a stat block very similar to the one used for Glibtongue for I don't know how many years, as I do all my character sheets in Word and this is much simpler and cleaner imo.


I've always listed individual racial traits on my character sheet, instead of just Elf [15]. It's much easier to remember what you actually can do that way.

So I really like the new character sheet layout.

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

So it's clear I'm suggesting the following format (I couldn't figure out how to do it in my previous post):

And, again, this just comes from the standard bestiary stat block that was adapted in Summoners to work on templates as well.

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Unlikely to come up, as there are no spaceships on the gear list in Adventurers. :)

#deliberatelyunhelpfulresponse

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Seeing 249 points made me twitch. What kind of sadistic GM would *do* that to his players? Fortunately I saw the explanation of trading points for cash. That bow is expensive, but the expense plays into its value as a power item, so not bad.

I like the character format. It does use extra space, but as GURPS is now a 90% PDF game, we need to get over thinking so much in terms of page count. A little more whitespace is free, unless you actually print the book out, which is now the exception rather than the rule.

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No, but you could easily spend tens of thousands on a weapon or piece of armour.

For the record, I use your house rules for SG/starting cash for all of my games so I hope it's something similar.

http://www.mygurps.com/h_money.html?p=ih&v=0

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I think the format you suggested was clear in your original post. And as you say, that format isn't new. I just prefer the stat block format PK used on the character sheet he posted.

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One point doesn't give you any equipment — one point gives plot protection to a piece of equipment you have already purchased out of your normal Starting Wealth.

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Does it? The main complaint that I have heard is that SG is more efficient in that you get 5x value (50% average campaign wealth/point vs. 10%) AND you get plot protection on your item as well.

In fact, it is such a bad deal, that DF 1 made them grant the same amount. Annoyingly, this hasn't found it's way to a general rule change that I know of.

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I'm pretty sure Signature Gear has been changed as per PK's house-rules, which was made an official rule in After the End. As others have noted, 1 point per item to provide plot protection, but you still have to pay for the item normally.

My question: does a suit of armour count as an item, or does each armour component count separately? My guess, for simplicity, is the former.

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What advantage do you find in that format?

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Or a Keep or a Sailing Ship.

I hadn't realized that SG had changed in After The End, but now that I go back and read it it does appear to be a flat 1/item. Honestly, I think it would work better as some sort of sliding scale, something between 1 for low value items and 10 for items that are either insanely expensive or priceless. But c'est la vie.

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It's cleaner and easier to read.

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I sincerely hope this thread doesn't devolve into a pointless debate about "whose opinion is right?" regarding the stat block. For the record, we decided upon this format for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG because it was easier to read than, but still clearly an adaptation of, the existing GURPS character format. I know that some people will wish we changed more, while others will think we went too far, but I'm hopeful that this formatting change will be seen as a net positive.

Heh, I'm really looking forward to seeing what y'all think about Adventurers' new format for templates. Now that changed quite a bit . . .

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Interesting! I feel the exact opposite. It certainly takes up less space and is probably a lot easier to format for folks trying to just bang out a character sheet in Word. But I can't decipher it at a quick glance, which I consider an important feature.

The rest of the page is great. It's just those first three or four lines...

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Will there be new character sheets that matches this format for DF characters? and will that be available as a per the normal character sheet found online?

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Why, when the cost of the item is already factored into the cost of buying the item before plot-protecting it with Signature Gear?

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Because the benefit of plot protection is that it keeps you from needing to *replace* the item, which does scale. A promise you won't lose it is arguably a bigger advantage for a starship that consumed all your assets in the first place than it is for a $5 pocket knife. You can argue it either way, and personally I prefer a flat cost per item, but it isn't actually ridiculous to scale with price.

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I think in my home game I'll stick with the original house rule which scales up if the SG costs more than campaign starting wealth.

I'd also like to see the SG rule become official over the system. Any chance of that happening?

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See GURPS Power Ups 5: Impulse Buys p. 8, which changes Trading Points for Money to 100% off starting wealth in used goods or 50% in cash.

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Thanks; I don't use impulse buys and wouldn't have expected to find it under player guidance/buying successes. It's a bit frustrating that for the second time they have admitted it's a poor and unfair rule but leave the fix as an optional rule and not actually change it but at least it's there.

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Off-topic discussion moved to new thread.

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I do have a question: how did you get the character to come out in that output? We're all talking about whether it's good or bad, but miss how it came out printed in the first place. If it's a GCA output, it's going to be missed by 98% of the target audience.

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I wrote it up using our house-style MS Word template, and Nikki Vrtis (our amazing editor) turned it into the PDF that you now see a screen-cap of. (We plan to make the PDF itself available too, but are having weird technical issues; bear with us.) GCA was not involved, mainly because I wanted to make 100% sure that I didn't bring over any "standard GURPS" baggage accidentally . . . but it also helps that these DFRPG templates are really easy to use. The whole character took me maybe 30 minutes to make by hand, and that includes some serious thought over spell choices. Picking his gear took me another 30.

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Bonus Spell #1:
Retribution

(Introduced in this Kickstarter update.)

When I was bouncing ideas off of my friends, two of them (Ben and Ben) suggested combat ideas that involved rewinding time or affecting a foe at range as a sort of curse. It got me to thinking about what sort of curses a holy god might approve of, and "you hurt my follower so I'll hurt you" seemed to fit a righteous-yet-lawful "eye for an eye" mentality.

In a way, Retribution is both underpowered and overpowered, depending on the situation. Against most foes, it's more spiteful than anything; a cleric is probably better off maintaining more directly useful buffs on his friends, so they don't get hit in the first place! But some foes are difficult to hurt, due to defenses, distance, Injury Tolerance, and so on. The fae reaver (don't worry, you'll see it soon) is a great example. With a barbarian or similarly beefy meat shield and healing spells at the ready, Retribution can make the bad guy do all of the work!

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Hm, as GM I wonder if I'd let my players use this with a slam to get deal damage back based on the target's damage... Of course that's assuming slams still can damage the attacker.

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So this a bonus spell that is not in Spells? Is this update the only place it will appear?

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Yes, exactly. We've already laid out the sample characters booklet (included with the GM Screen), Spells, and Monsters. But we wanted to celebrate how well this Kickstarter was doing with a bit of bonus content. It might be fair to think of these as "mini stretch goals," where they allocated some of my hours to producing additional exclusive goodies.

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Seems like the perfect spell to cast on a zombie or other disposable minion, though the righteous god might not approve of the zombie part.

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Heh, I'd say that's a bit munchkinly myself. A delver slamming into a foe is not the same as that foe striking that delver with a melee attack.

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I think it's a pity to not include it, but I understand.

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Oh yeah, I wouldn't hesitate to assume that evil clerics have this as well! It's a great way to make the warriors hesitate to wade into what should be easily cut-down zombie mooks. :)

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The image of a delver standing next to a fallen foe with a pickaxe sticking out of their head leaps to mind.

Delver, while standing very still and trying not to panic. "Don't touch itdonttouchitdonttouchit"

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So right perfectly DF behavior then!

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Bonus Monster #1:
Fae Reaver

(Introduced in this EnWorld article.)

In a way, that entire article is already a designer's note for the fae reaver, so please be sure to read it. I like the way this monster turned out; it's a serious danger! The only viable options for killing it are area/explosive attacks or strong fighters with incredibly high skill. Archers are probably at the biggest disadvantage, but that's why a wide range of combat styles is necessary in a party. Your best bet is to get a cleric to hold it off via Turning while you prepare an appropriate assault, though the fae reaver is smart and will likely flee to attack another day.

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Eh, there's always attack spam. A basic Knight with weapon master and Broadsword-20 can attack 3x/turn at skill 14, including dodge around 45% of attacks will hit, so 1.35 hits/round for 2.7 damage/round.

Hm. How does alchemist's fire work against swarms? Is it able to get direct hits?

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Sure, but its Regeneration makes that frustrating. And since this isn't quite a boss monster, just a worthy one, there will probably either be a few of them or one flanked by other monsters.

If the GM wants to make the fae reaver into a boss, capable of taking on an entire party, he'll need to take advice from the notes and buff it up. ST 21, Regeneration (4 HP/round), and a necrotizing bite = serious boss threat.

Thrown directly at the reaver, it'll just sail through or at best cause 2 HP burning damage. But if you throw it on the ground, the area-effect damage will hurt it normally.

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Bonus Character #2:
Amira Tiro

(Introduced in this Kickstarter update for backers only!)

I enjoy breaking stereotypes, including the ideas that half-ogres are uncouth rabble and that all fantasy women must be supermodels who rely on "waif fu" rather than brute strength. Amira is a genuinely good person whose biggest character flaws come from her cloistered upbringing.

(I also feel that, like bards, martial artists are the hardest delvers to "get right" and make effective, which is why those are the two templates I tackled.)

As Amira's player, I'd spend her first earned character points on Smallsword and Parry Missile Weapons, then try to talk the GM into letting me take Enhanced Parry 2 (Smallsword) instead of (Unarmed); her Dodge is great as-is, but her Parry has the potential to be incredible. After that, Weapon Master (Short Staff) gives 2d+5 damage and Mantis Strike bumps that to a terrifying 3d+5! Amira doesn't need fancy weapons, but she should save up for a suit of heavy plate with Fortify +1 and Lighten 50% (DR 8, $20,000, 36 lbs.), granting her total DR 11 with no increase in encumbrance.

(Her pie-in-the-sky dream armor would be fine, Dwarven, epic plate with Fortify +2 and Lighten 50%. It's +4 DR at the same weight . . . but at $182,000, that won't be happening anytime soon.)

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Good writeup of the character. I'm always intrigued with taking the "monstrous races" and turning them into heroes.

One thing I do not like about the new template is that there's no place for Reaction Roll modifiers.
Amira has two traits that modify that negatively and I feel like any of my players would forget that their Reaction roll sucks and would forget to mention it when one would be called for. (IE: Free points).

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

The trick is to ask "what's your reaction modifiers?"
That way, the bard with +10 gets reminded too. Which you wouldn't think they'd forget but it happens.

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Personally I love the "monster" races more than I enjoy the others (personal exception being the Half-Elves). Given a choice, I'd be more than happy to take a Kobold (Banestorm) Rogue (Pyramid 3-64) through a Dungeon Fantasy campain, or convert over an Ibixian/Goattaur from some other games for a Barbarian instead of a Faun. Heckfire, I stated out a complete homebrew bipedal rat race for DF complete with power-ups. The one thing that I have learned through fantasy novels, especially care of Granny Weatherwax, is that good doesn't have to be nice and good doesn't have to be soft either.

But for Martial Artists, I think I'd probably prefer to grab an Atlas/Orion (depending on which supplement you're using) amulet first off if you can somehow get one in the new DF:RPG. I learned quickly that if you can, you might as well grab an amulet that passively quadruples your basic lift for purposes of encumbrance for only $5k. Never have to worry about those encumbrance penalties screwing with your martial arts again until you hit a NMZ and by that point your lighten spells are useless anyhow.

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Bonus Monster #2:
Squirrel-pion

(Introduced in this Kickstarter update.)

If you've been following my After the End campaign posts, you're already familiar with these! If not, then enjoy these deceptively deadly little suckers. Their agility and armor-piercing tail make them a threat, and the cumulative penalty means that the neurotoxin is likely to get you eventually. For the record, my wasteland players managed to improvise a cage to catch a mess of squirrel-pions, milked them for poison, and then roasted them over an open fire. Thanks to a successful Cooking roll, they were delicious.

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I asked this in the other thread, but I can't figure out what the art for this or the Fel Reaver is doing there. Are the described monsters depicted and I'm just just not looking at the image correctly? Is the image just a placeholder to show where illustrations go on the monster entries in the book? Something else?

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

These are bonus content monsters, both created not that long ago, so there was neither time nor budget to commission custom artwork depicting them. The art you see is not representative of the monsters, but is instead a preview of what you'll find in the Dungeon Fantasy RPG books.

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That's what I figured ... except why have a picture at all? Do the monster entries in Exploits have an accompanying illustration that goes in that place in the layout?

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

Why not have one? Pictures are evocative of theme and feel, and thus an important part of any RPG book. Brandon's art does an excellent job (IMO) of conveying the "classic fantasy" vibe, and we want to make sure backers and potential customers can see that.

Sorry, but I am not in the loop on DFRPG layout; with Kromm devoted almost 100% to this project right now, my current job is handling everything else. :)

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Bonus Spell #2:
Land Mine

(Introduced in this Game Geekery post.)

My friend Chris suggested some sort of delayed ground-based harassment spell along the lines of Grease or Glue, but I realized that we didn't have one that simply blew up! Happily, that's no longer an issue. And while I realize some people may cringe at the pun, I'm rather proud of it. :)

The energy cost is obviously drawn directly from Explosive Fireball, but the limit is different; where a wizard with Magery 3 could throw a 3d to 9d Explosive Fireball, he can do a 6d Land Mine. Of course, the tradeoff is that a 6d Land Mine takes half as long to cast as a 6d Explosive Fireball, and it offers far more options when it comes to setting up traps.

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Oh man. That would be AWESOME. More of that guys work can only be a good thing.

Agree fully. If guy has extra time (after all of this is over and at the printers) his take on a Squirrel-pion would be great to see!

Nymdok

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

I admit I have a strong preference for illustrative art over space-filling art, especially for creatures and gear

Re: Designer's Notes for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG bonus content
 

So do I, but since that wasn't available, the obvious go-to is space-filling art. I mean, the only alternative would be a pull-quote, which wouldn't be nearly as attractive.

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Right, I was trying to ask if Exploits has illustrations for monsters (as I gather is the current policy for the Dungeon Fantasy Monsters line) but apparently I botched it. :(

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Except, as I said above, I'm not in the loop on how Exploits is being laid out, not to mention that this isn't really the thread for general DFRPG questions. That's why I was answering in the context of the fae reaver and squirrel-pion.

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OK, questions about the latest teasers:

The monster does the toxic attack have cyclic and I'm not seeing it or is the -1 for extra times you're hit? If so, what's the point build option for that?

The spell, if I meet both sets of prerequisites do my levels of spell casting talent stack?

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Ok, I've got to ask the important question here. . .

What would this thing cost if I wanted to buy a tame one for a Pixie to ride? As an ally or otherwise?

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No cyclic; when you're stabbed, roll HT at a cumulative -1 for every previous stabbing in the past hour. Failure means you take 1d toxic.

As for the point cost of that? <shrug> Hadn't really thought about it. I never build my monsters with points in mind. It'd be some lower-value variant on Resistible, I suppose.

Never. This is made clear in both Adventurers and Spells.

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Heh, okay, give me some time and I'll come back and do a full writeup of the squirrel-pion with points and everything. I'm completely swamped dealing with [FNORD] until next Tuesday, though, so wait until then to start poking me. :)

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Can do. Thanks a lot, a Pixie Scout needs all the help it can get and what would be better than a trusty steed?

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*Wonders what it is that PK is working on*

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Obviously a spell that transfers ownership of land from someone else to the caster...

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Prerequisite: Summon Toddler.