Chain Attacks
 

Alright. I've been meditating on this for a long time and I just don't know how to do it. I'm thinking Chain Lightning and similar spells. Basically:

Normal attack. If attack hits target (attack roll is a success and target fails or forgoes active defenses) the attack automatically makes another attack on a (probably) preset skill against another random (or psuedo-random?) nearby enemy. It it lands on that enemy it chains to another. Maybe with a limit on how many enemies it can chain to, maybe without one.

How do you do that? I'm thinking innate attacks and afflictions and the like. I was thinking homing with extra passes, but the extra passes specifically only apply to new targets and only apply if you hit your initial target, instead of miss them.

Is there a cannon way of doing this?

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Follow-up attack? Treat as a follow-up, but on a different target. That attack would be separately defined and have its own properties?

Re: Chain Attacks
 

So I called this a version of Cosmic combined with Cyclic. See the blog post here for how to implement it.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Sounds like a form of Extra Attack, with limitation of "Only right after a successful attack within the same turn" and "only against a enemy not attacked within this 'chain' "

The first limitation should get progressively larger for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th attack. This is because the 3rd, 4th, and 5th attack each require that each and every attack before them to be successful.

The second limitation should get progressively larger too, as there will be a smaller pool of enemies to choose from as the number of 'chain' increases.

Maybe you could add the two limitation together and call it a -50% limitation for the first Extra Attack (the 2nd attack in the chain), -60% for the second, -70% for the third and so on.

Note that you might need the +20% enhancement to use the same weapon multiple times in the chain. If the Extra Attack can only be used for a specific Innate Attack, that should be a limitation too.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

This is pretty much a stock application of link.

Buy base ability + link +10%
Buy the second 'link' in the chain +link+10%, it only needs range enough to jump to the next target
Buy the third 'link in the chain +link+10%, it only needs range enough to jump to the next target

And so on and so forth.

Its a 0 point feature for the linked abilities to fire in sequence rather than simultaneously and start from the 'end point' of the last one.

You should potentially get some discount for 'can't just hit the same target x times', but no matter what this is pretty expensive.

I'm not sure if this would be a series of attack rolls, or just a single attack roll with whatever attack modifiers carrying along (IE if you did leading the target for -2/-1 each target would be led). To keep things simple I would just use a single roll modifiers/MoS carrying along to each jump.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

I would use this one. It's weird to buy the chain attacks feature as a separate advantage instead of an Enhancement on the IA, but it makes the most sense to me. Here are the modifiers as I see them:

Extra Attack [25/jump]
Multi-Strike [+20%] (so the attacks are with the same weapon)
Measure range from last target [+10%] (which might seem cheap, but keep in mind it could easily be a hindrance)
Only with a specific Innate Attack [-25%] (this is considerably more restrictive than Single Skill from MA: -30% might be warranted)
Only following a successful attack in the same chain [-30% initially, getting steeper from there]
Cannot hit a target that's been hit in the same chain [-10% initially, getting steeper from there]

Optional

Reliable X and Untrainable, where Untrainable sets the skill level to 10 and you add Reliable until it's at the static skill level you want

Re: Chain Attacks
 

You might want to add Overhead (Always Surprise, Does Not Bypass Cover, Second and Further Attacks Only) +30%, meaning everyone after the firt target defends at a -2, due to the attack being a bit of a surprise.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Alright. I like that option with extra attacks. That works well. But is it really worth that many points? Like... say for a simple basic 5 cp 1d Burning innate attack. Is it worth paying the 17.5 sp for a single additional target compared to rapid fire 1 (+40% for 2 extra cp), or AOE 1 with Selective area and bombardment (+50%, +20%, -5%, for 4 extra cp)?

I guess... is there a way to turn that general thing with extra attack into a modifier so it scales proportional to the attacks damage instead of being independent of it?

Re: Chain Attacks
 

I also really like the wandering cycles thing, Ghostdancer. That's a really cool way of doing it that works really well for things like the locust swarm you modeled in that article!

Re: Chain Attacks
 

On the flip side, if you want to model a railgun that shoots a bullet that seeks additional targets and bounces between them, that's a 15d p+ attack with AD 3, so buying extra attacks for it is something of a bargain.

I agree that "it's wildly inefficient for a low-point Innate Attack to chain from one enemy to another" is a problem, but I'm having trouble thinking of the solution.

Maybe invent a "Max Damage: 1d [-60%]" limitation for the Extra Attacks to make them cheaper. You'd have to come up with your own guidelines for how small a damage cap gave you how many points, but I feel comfortable letting people buy Extra Attacks that have limited damage for fewer points.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Once upon a time, I priced this out to be +60%. I had reasoning that has since been lost. If ever found, I'll back up my claim with facts....

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Just had a thought, what if you use a variation of Rapid Fire? That effectively gives you extra attacks equal to your margin of success if you hit. You'd have to combine it with Area Effect so that you could hit multiple foes in the area. Think of it as an enhancement version of Bombardment.

Thanks. :-)

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Since this can only attack each enemy once, I'd actually build it based on Area Attack, with Selective Area and Limitations to indicate the need for rolls to hit, and the necessity of a previous hit being successful.

However you build it, it should not be more expensive a sufficiently large area attack with selective area, since it's less powerful than that.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Personally, I'd build it as Area Effect and Bombardment. The Bombardment limitation requires a hit roll for everyone in the area of effect. You make the rolls, determine who was hit, and then after the fact determine the "line where the attack bounced between targets."

The game mechanics is roll separately for each, but the special effect and in-game description is it bounced between those who were hit.

Edit: If you want a maximum number of targets, then also add an accessibility limitation. I remember there was an older thread on how to calculate that value based on the size of the area effect.

To be precise, this works for instant attacks like chain lightning or a "wandering mend" healing from Star Wars the Old Republic. For a cyclic attack that moves on when the first target dies, I like Ghostdancer's method.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Area Effect is priced to account for multiplying the impact of the Advantage by the number of targets in the effected area. I personally wouldn't use it, but if you do, the "attacking each target is dependent on hitting the previous one" limitation should compensate for at least 70% of AE's cost.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

The only thing I don't like about this is that you don't have to successfully hit the first opponent for it to work. But I guess you could build the "chain" component as a followup.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

You know, thinking about rapid fire rules. This might be a variation of Spraying fire. It follows the same rules but with a few exceptions: 1) you can never use more than 1 shot per target (accessibility limitation), 2) shots are not wasted between targets (cosmic enhancement? homing?), 3) skill is based on the ability not yours and range is measured from latest target hit (homing?), 4) you can target enemies in a wider arc then 30 degrees (cosmic?)

Rapid fire for the number of potential hits, homing, and a cosmic enhancement should do the trick.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Area Effect (+50%/level) with Delay (+50%), Overhead (+30%), and Selective Area (+20%). The attack 'jumps' to the next legal target after it is done with the first legal target.

For example, you could have Burning Attack 2d (Area Effect 8, 256 yards, +400%; Emanation, -20%; Damage Modifier, Surge, +20%; Delay, Chain Attack, +50%; Overhead, +30%; Selective Area, +20%) [50]. When you want to attack anyone in your area of effect, you designate target order and the lightning bolt jumps from your hand to the first and then subsequent targets. You could just attack one target or thousands of targets, depending on your need.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

That build should give you a great deal more functionality than a chain attack would - you don't need to roll to hit (unless the GM calls for rolls to hit with Area Effect normally, but you're effectively rolling at a large bonus in that case), targets can only avoid it by getting out of the area of effect (and are penalized to do so, thanks to Overhead), and you could use it on a triggered delay as a trap or similar. Chain attack should be more along the lines of "You hit as with a normal attack, and it's possible for the attack to springboard off your target to hit another one."

I'd say the simplest approach is either a +50% or +100% Enhancement per "jump." I'd lean toward the former. How it interacts with Range is up to the GM, but I'd probably do it as follows: for purposes of Range penalties, the attack originates from the previous victim and uses the attacker's skill, but without any bonuses from Aim or similar; for purposes of 1/2D and Max, add together the ranges of each attack leading up to the target. Characters can opt to purchase Reliable for this attack; the bonus only applies to chains, and cannot exceed the Aiming bonus the original attack received. Characters can also opt to purchase Reduced or Increased Range for the attack; this is at half price, only applies to chains, and for Reduced Range the combination of Chain +50% and Reduced Range cannot be worth less than +10%. If an attack with 2 or more chains (for a total of 3 or more attacks) is unable to revisit previous targets, that's probably a -20% or so Limitation.

As an example, consider a character with Innate Attack Burning 2d (Chain x3 +150%) [25] against 4 foes that are spaced out a bit. She blasts the first foe, who is 4 yards away, at -2 to hit for Range. The attack connects, dealing 2d burn, and she chains the attack to the next foe, who is 3 yards away from the first one; this is at -1 to hit (3 yards away) and a total of 7 yards for purposes of 1/2D and Max. This connects, dealing 2d burn. She then chains this attack to the next foe, who is 20 yards away from the second one; this is at -10 to hit (20 yards away) and a total of 27 yards for purposes of 1/2D and Max, reducing damage to 1d (1/2D is 10 yards). The last target is 80 yards from foe #3, which is too far to hit (total would be 107, but Max is only 100), so she opts to have the attack come back and hit foe #1 (who she had a poor damage result against); he's actually closer to #3 than #2 was, at 17 yards, for another -10 to hit and 1d burn on a successful hit. The character would have been better off going #1, #2, #1, #3 for the order of attacks.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Since this thread got necro'd, I'll take the opportunity to ask a few related questions:

About Rapid Fire, Chaining. If I attack someone with effective skill 16, roll a 10, then I can roll again against 6-Range penalty-2 to hit another character? So if there's another enemy just beside (1 yard, I'd roll against 6-0-2=4?

Is is possible to limit Area Effect to affect only a small number of targets? For example, a 4 yards wide attack that can only hit a maximum of 3 targets? In my opinion, this would be akin to Nuisance Effect most of the time, unless the Area Effect is large enough to reliably hit dozens of enemies.

Re: Chain Attacks
 

Follow-up is usually limited by needing the same target, so how can we affect cost so it's not like getting Extra Attack for free?