[ATE] Farming example
 

Main street
An example of ATE farming in a hostile climate.

Assumptions
- climate conditions make the local environment barely capable of supporting life.
- late TL 8 early TL 9 start.
- initial resources where a small farming town. Including a rural supply store, local railway line, maybe a dozen small stores, a landfill and a small supermarket.

Notes
- well off community by ATE standards
- tried to make the crops/animals modular so they can be altered as desired to suit the game.
- a similar system could be set up in a high rise building, a new water source would be required though.

Geography
- local river
- town was a crossroads plus service street layout
- 2 or three commercial buildings that are more than 2 stories tall.

Description
Surrounded by a high wall constructed from railway iron posts and salvaged metal there are two towers built from a grain silo and a power pylon at each end of this well fortified farming community.

Upon entering through a short tunnel with heavy doors at each end you come out into an open space, your first impression is glass, lots of glass. The next thing you notice is pipes of all sizes going on all over the place.

Inputs
- water
- sun light
- wood
- lime stone
- Sulfur (presumably from car batteries)
- Salt and refrigeration technology

Water
- Spring, the town's spring is a reliable but small source of water. It is piped to a small artificial Wetland of about 90 square feet. That acts as an additional filter and an indicator of the water's quality.
- River, the river is the most bountiful of the town's water sources. It is also the most polluted. The exact composition of the pollution varies due to events further up the catchment so the purification is time consuming. The residents of main street use a combination of bacterial filtration to remove heavy metals (bacteria sourced from manure slurry), a limestone gravel filter to reduce the acidity and solar powered steam distillation using a parabola lined with broken mirrors.
- Bore, the town has a bore that requires a large amount of power to operate. The water as a result of rain acidity has become super saturated with iron. This is filtered by showering the water onto a sand filter and then passing it through a second activated charcoal filter.
- Rain, the rain fortunately is only slightly acid so it is run over limestone gravel to neutralize the carbonic acid, the CO2 given off by this reaction is saved to cool the radiation detector. The radiation detector is used when there is a westerly blowing.

Crops, most seed was salvaged from the scrap bin behind the supermarket or from one old ladies garden.
- potatoes
- Capsicum
- Tomatoes
- Carrots
- Beans
- Shallots
- Basil
- Cauliflower
These crops are grown in tubs behind windows in the old buildings all along main street's east-west main street. Every roof has either had a green house built on top or the roof has been replaced with glass.

The biggest "field" is in the old single story steel clad warehouse located behind the old farm supply store.

The open field crops are grown on low walled raised beds over a waterproof base. Each plant is protected from the elements by a car window, house window or clear plastic container (for example a water cooler tank)

Other features of Main street
- central composting storage
- methane extraction plant (salvaged from the landfill)
- chemistry plant (only in the most improvised sense)
- alcohol distillery
- small generator powered by a concealed water wheel

Indoor crops
- mushrooms, using the compost and the heat generated from the methane plant. Mushrooms are grown year round in every indoor space that doesn't get enough light for plants to survive. They store well when dried.

Livestock
- Pigs, distributed in as many buildings as possible are the town's pigs. They are descendants of high food conversion efficiency breeds that where farmed near by. They are fed carrots, eggs, mushrooms and any other surplus food.
- Chickens, fed cooked root vegetables, snails, worms.
- Fish, fed worms, snails, pig skin and other miscellaneous protein rich food. Usually housed in salvaged baths
- Snails and slugs, fed green leafy parts of the crops. Farmed in moist rooms on trays.
- worms, fed on compost-able plant material.

The livestock produce
- Pigs; meat, blood, leather, offal, bones, fat, manure, gelatin, tendons.
- Chickens; meat, eggs, feathers, offal blood.
- Fish; meat, fertiser, manure, bones.
- Snails; protein, manure
- worms; protein, worm cast.

Regular doses of lime would be required to manage the PH of the manure.

Of the three main fertilizer elements, phosphorus and potassium would be easy to recover from the wastes and the manure system produces lots of nitrates

A lot of the methane would be used to provide heat for chemical processes and cooking food.

Portable food
- dried; mushrooms, fish, beans.
- Shallots, potatoes
- pickled; pork, eggs, capsicum.
- with enough surplus energy and water canning possible.
- Dried sausage treated with nitrates.

Other produce
- capsaicin and gunpowder weapons.
- ether, not long term sustainable
- gun cotton
- methane
- grouting (essential with all the glass to maintain)

Skills within community
- Chemistry TL6/7
- Animal Handling
- Engineering
- Farming
- Gardening (?)
- Vet (maybe)
- Cooking

Should fit a book of Eli or mad max setting, work in progress.
Anyone want more crunch?
Further examples?
- in the dark
- very small space
- depopulated world
- "homestead"
- nomads

edit
Adding crunch, back of an envelope level of accuracy
- Assuming a late TL8 high yield potato variety with very few pests surviving, 50% of the space devoted to potatoes, the 300 by 200 yard walled off area produces two crops of maybe 80 tonnes each.
- Potatoes and beans are technically the same rotation when dealing with fungal challenges. So the growing medium is highly managed to maintain fertility and health.
- Beans are the next most common crop with an annual production of 8 tonnes, Individual bean plants are planted in almost every available space.
- The rest of the crops yield another 2 tonnes in total.
- The worms and Snails turn the approximately 100 tonnes of green matter plus scraps (including winter weeds) into 10 tonnes of protein and fat rich "slow meat" for chickens, fish and pigs.
- Mushroom production is in the area of 40 tonnes a year
- 120 pigs are reared for food per year, this consumes most of the mushrooms and 75 tonnes of potatoes, producing 6 tonnes of pork, (unsure of the estrus for pigs, presuming two litters a year)
- Overall the production is in the area of 100 tonnes of reasonably varied food per year. More than enough to support the population of about 100 people. Incredibly labor intensive.
- there is sufficient give in the system for Main Street to employ (feed) about 5 professional scavengers/salvagers/adventurers

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

That's really neat exploring the process of farming and how people would go about it.

I myself would be interested in all of these explored.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Western Hills

Subterranean farming
Assumptions
- farming on the surface or in direct sunlight is no longer possible.
- the subterranean farmers ancestors had the opportunity to prepare
- long term food production will require artificial light.
- the "End" for this example is greatly increased UV (or microwave) output from the sun. Daylight is death as well as a great power source. You only go out at night.
- water is available and relatively pure due to filtration through rock.

Power sources, which ever power source is used it is assumed it is limited otherwise it is not really an ATE game.
- Chemical, finite so requires an external source, fuel, chemicals or biomass. Though a long subterranean path to a coal seam might be interesting.
- Nuclear, feels too bountiful for the setting, also seldom built underground near a large city.
- Renewable, solar (used in this example) other options include tidal and hydroelectric.

Notes
- It would seem likely that a more advanced infrastructure is required for two generations to have survived. They will need to be able to make replacement parts and probably mold plastic. This would seem to indicate a larger population, say 1000(?)
- Started with LED lighting but have been replacing it with standard bulbs since as they are easier to manufacture.
- to minimize heat build up in plants using photosynthesis the grow lights would be red/blue as green light is wasted in photosynthesis. The plants would look black instead of green.
- CO2 build up would be a problem, decomposing material generates a lot of it and there are few green plants to absorb it.

Resources
- A stable geological region located on the outskirts of a long established town.
- historic tunneling for minerals, WW2 defenses and civil infrastructure have provided the space for the settlement.

Description
Rushing to down the ladder before the fatal rays of the sun illuminate the world. You enter the myriad of tunnels and chambers that make up the farming settlement of Western Hills. Water pipes, electrical conduits and fans decorate the ceiling. Moisture glistens on the walls and is collected in gutters in the floor.

Crops
- Fungi, a large range of mushrooms and Fungi are the backbone of the Western Hills farming system. The biggest limiting factor for many of the species of Fungi is the availability of a carbon rich substrate on which to grow. Four crops a year are grown. The growing chambers are full of shelves and kept insulated against the cold of the rock with a wide array of materials. Crude heat exchangers are mounted on the ventilation systems outside each growing chamber. Everything destined for eating would be exposed to a UV(b?) light source prior to harvest to generate vitamin D.

Crops requiring artificial light, these would be a small part of the diet.
- Numerous strains of Cyanobacteria, a source of fresh oxygen. Grown around submerged light sources. They also help fix the CO2 surplus.
- Crops that do well in artificial light and or hydroponics; arugula, beets, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, chard, Chinese cabbage, corn salad, endive, escarole, garlic, horseradish, kale, kohlrabi, leaf lettuce, leeks, mustard, New Zealand spinach, parsnips, peas, potatoes, radishes, spring onions (scallions), sorrel, spinach, taro, turnips, and watercress.

Livestock
- Pigs, fed mushrooms, mussels, insects and a bare minimum of green crops.
- Insects, harvested from manure chambers.
- Ants and/or termites that are fed Fungi
- Mussels, fed Cyanobacteria and used as part of the water system, they also act as a nitrogen fixer in this system.
- Fish, fed on mushrooms and ants/termites.

Management
- The system would require constant thermal control. Keeping Fungi warm enough as well as preventing the plants from getting to hot under the lights.

Requirements
- Carbon rich substrate, typically paper.
- Glass and electrical parts (moist environment would mean high wear)
- Sulphur
- Potassium
- External solar power
- plastics
- Firearm related supplies

Produce
- A range of Fungi
- Preserved food, dried Mushrooms, dried fish, Short lifespan preserved mussels, very few long shelf life vegetables, smoked pork.
- Range of products derived from plants, the limited growing space would make high value plants a priority.
- Incidental minerals
- Water
- Calcium carbonate and derived products (some of these are chemically useful).

Skills within the community
- Biology
- Animal handling
- Gardening
- Engineer, mechanical, mining, electrical
- Chemistry, Plastics
- Swimming,
- Herbary likely,
- Glass blowing (?)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

This is great (E) I'm defintly going to use these for my game. Hoping for a nuclear winter/ice age style example next!

Edit: Also the west hills kind of reminds me of a vault style shelter, but I get the feeling it's a bit to desperate for the safety and relative comfort I'd want to represent. Any chance we could see Higher TL (lets say 9?) shelter in better shape latter down the line?

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

These are very rich examples. I like them a lot.

I can imagine dropping them into a game, virtually unchanged, as detailed descriptions either of the PCs' home base, or of other settlements they come across during the campaign. I'm not certain that the player would want to go into this much detail about the precise farming methods all the time, but knowing that it was there whenever we wanted it would be really, really wonderful. And I think that we'd end up wanting to explore it, since we knew it was there!

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Even if the players only learn about this stuff, peripherally, it adds an amazing sense of depth to the setting if you know what's on the menu at the local bar where they meet the old man or woman who plans to make them an offer they can't refuse.

Also, since this is a survival setting, identification of bottlenecks and shortages in local supply-chains and infrastructure can drive many, many adventures.

Moreover, if you know what surpluses one settlement has available, as compared to others, then you know how the local economy has started to shape up -- and that means you know where the merchants and traders come from and what they carry, and (roughly) how much each commodity is worth, relative to the others.

That helps a lot, when it comes time to add verisimilitude to a bartering session. :)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Kingsport

Assumptions
- Ice age related End
- Short growing season, not equatorial. Growing season for plants about 60 days.
- The ancestors of the current survivors had the opportunity to salvage the plants and animals that survived the early stages of the ice age.
- Sea level is lower and the salinity higher.

Notes
- While the default End for this set up is cold related, a heat related End would fit. Just move Kingsport to the Antarctic (added bonus of being far away from probable radiation in a nuclear exchange situation) or to the coast of the Arctic ocean. Add in a oil, coal or gas field that was serviced by plane.
- Some juggling could be done to replace cold with radiation, if so replace sheep with goats if the climate is warmer/dryer.
- This is a fairly large community, if traders could reliably carried supplies, this type of livestock operation would be done on a smaller scale in multiple locations.
- The high lambing percentage and fast maturing ewes would mean the breeding animals have a fast turn over, reducing the effects of radiation on the flock as a whole.
- May support a microlight plane.
- Complicated ventilation/heat exchangers on the main barns.
- Consumes 2 hectares of trees as fire wood per year, harvested from a forest that has been killed by cold, harvested by machine,

Initial Resources
- Airport with a heated runway, well stocked fuel supply.
- Nearby city or industrial facilities to scavenge.
- TL 9 Farmers and farming equipment

Description
The rusty ice encrusted gates crunch open just enough for you to slip through and close quickly behind you. You stomp your way through the snow to the heatlock on the hangar doors. The wool and plastic lined hangar is full of machinery, straw, the sound of sheep and the all pervasive smell of ammonia. A sentry, wrapped up in a heavy homespun jersey sits in front of a cobbled together drone control control rig.

The view that the drone provides give you a good impression of Kingsport even though it is locked down for winter. The two huge hangars each big enough to hold three A490s, The retractable greenhouses, the multiple domes of the geodesic wintering barns and the snow blanketed fences marking out the fields and paddocks.

Livestock and Animals
- Sheep, Primarily Shetland, East Friesan and Merino all with TL9 genetics. During the short summer they are taken to distant pastures to feed on the grasses that survive the cold. The shepherds use dogs descended from huskies and heading dogs or huskies and huntaways to herd the sheep. The armed Shepherds usually carry gieger counters, GPS/radio tracking equipment, thermal optics and drones to assist them in managing their flock.
The TL 9 genetics provide the sheep with worm and parasite resistance, a high growth rate when food permits, cold tolerance and most ewes produce two lambs with high sexual dimorphism. Big fast growing rams and smaller ewes that are robust and ready to breed at a young age. The sheep live outside for 4 months of the year, on a indoor grazing rotation for 5 months and in pens for the coldest 3 months.
- Geese and Ducks, a blend of wild and domesticated genetics.
- Cats, to control vermin.
- Dogs, as mentioned above.

Crops
- Oats, descended from Fast growing GE strains.
- Cold resistant vegetables; Kales (including a fodder variety), colards, carrots, spinach, leeks, parsnips, turnips (including fodder), chard.

Seasons
Due to the short growing season there are three months of nonstop activity to get all the outdoor crops from planting to harvest. Kingsport relies on machinery modified to run on the Bio-Aviation fuel it has stockpiled to get this work done. The old material from the sheep pens is spread on fields to increase fertility and to provide some additional heat as it breaks down. Oats and fodder crops are planted in fields that have been left fallow. The retractable poly-carbonate greenhouses extend along a combination railway track/fence to provide warmth for a longer growing season as well as an indoor environment for the sheep to graze in. When the weather gets too savage the greenhouses are retracted to avoid damage and the animals would be moved to the triple glazed geodesic barn complex*. The runway heating system is also used to increase the length of the growing season, heat from solar and decomposition sources is used.

Machinery is also used to harvest as much firewood as possible, most of which would come from long dead forests.

The cold makes food storage easy and as a result every year when the sheep finish grazing outside not quite 2/3 are slaughtered and processed.

Lots of insulation (wool) and the careful use of solar energy to assist heating supplement the wood fires to heat critical areas.

Produce
- Meat, dairy products, wool, lanolin, fat, leather
- Oat derived products
- Alcohol
- Dogs
- Mechanical services
- Woolen clothes
- Long down time so some manufacture possible.
- Salt (or would have a large stockpile)
- "Ham" from mutton and other long lasting meat
- Fur from any "pest" animals that threatened the flocks

Require
- Additional Nitrates, the short growing season and fast growing crops would demand a great deal.
- Sulfur.
- Tools, machinery would be pushed to the limit for 3 months then repaired during the cold months.
- A greater range of seed.
- Entertainment, a long time spent indoors.
- Drone materials
- Will want another source of fuel
- May desire stimulants for the busy part of the year

Skills present
- Animal handling
- Vet
- Engineer
- Electronics
- Driving
- Piloting, drone
- Leadership, A high level of organization and planning is required for the "summer"

*See the "Eden Project" supposedly snow/cold resilient, upgraded to TL9

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The Dalton Mountain fallout shelter
Description
While the residents of Dalton are a strange group to say the least they have managed to maintain the extensive food production systems that were installed in their facility just before the End. Traveling up to the concrete walls you see the signs of several failed crops. Inside it looks eerily similar to the faded photos advertising "Family Restaurants" from crumbling magazines.

Bunkertech Modular food production system

Notes
- These are attempts at biological closed systems so sooner or later various toxins will build up or deficiencies will become insurmountable.
- No system is perfect and there will be gradual loss somewhere.
- The larger and more complex a system the longer it will last
- They can greatly increase the endurance of a shelters food supply

The Bunkertech food production system is a series of relatively self contained machines that produce something resembling food. The are designed to supplement the stored food in a fallout shelter. They are also useful for producing vitamins and other compounds that do not have a long shelf life (Some key vitamins do not last longer than about 6 months). While Bunkertech make a range of self contained models there would be many other makes and models.

Algae farm
- Key components, tank full of water, some trace elements, light and algae.
- Produces, spirulina (TL 7)

Bunkertech Food(tm) Foundation Unit (TL 9 ish)
a self contained algae farm the size of standard refrigerator that produces up to six meal equivalents per day. In the smallest shelters this unit can act as the entirety of the food production system. It consists of a housing containing two water filled tanks each with an oscillator and light source. An air pump provides CO2 while a PH meter and thermometer ensures conditions stay optimal. A hopper full of the various trace elements needed to support the algae serves both tanks. The algae is automatically extracted and dried then extruded into the collection bowls. Typically there are two varieties of algae, spirulina (high in protein, carbohydrates and some vitamins) and a bulk "filler" algae that is less rich and more filling. The extruded product resembles animal feed pellets but can be moistened and reshaped. There are a wide range of packaged flavourings available. Oxygen is also produced.
Requirements
- Power, (though some models use sunlight to fuel the algae and solar power to run the other components)
- Clean water
- Nutrients, typically a powder
- Acidity regulators, Alkali conditions required
- Regular cleaning with chemical cleaners or a sterilizer. (weekly)
- Air, providing the CO2
- Starter algae
- Regular maintenance (once per month of use)
Produces
- three "Food(tm) units" per tank per day. A food unit of "filler" algae equals a meal (measured by calories and space only), a food unit of spirulina equals two days worth of vitamins and protein. (not a complete diet though).
- Oxygen

Bunkertech Food(tm) range
a selection of GE algae that are designed for different purposes, they are differentiated by colour for simplicity of use. Many other varieties may exist.
- Green, Spirulina
- White, "Filler"
- Red, Mycoprotein substrate
- Orange, Omnivorous animal food
- Brown, Ruminant animal food
- Bioluminescent, Lighting
- Grey, Soil conditioner
- Dark brown, Industrial uses
- Blue, fish food
- Off white, paper production.
- Purple, Contains gelatinous compounds (Laver)
- Yellow, oil rich
- Light brown, Sweet tasting but otherwise low food value.

Bunkertech Waste Reclamation unit
Produces some of the nutrients required for the Foundation (and other) units as well as drinkable water. Requires a moderate amount of power.

Bunkertech Food(tm) Auto-Chef
This unit is designed to further process the material from other units into a wider range of food like products. Simply fill the hoppers with the requisite raw materials, turn the dial to the desired meal and press the start button. A TV diner style tray will be filled with various recombined, molded, dyed, heated and artificially flavoured Food(tm).

Bunkertech Burger(tm) Unit
This is a self contained unit the size of a microwave houses a tube that is loaded with a nutrient rich growing medium or substrate dosed with spores for a GE fungus. When warmth and moisture are added the mushroom like fungus fills the entire tube and begins to grow out the open end. Once this growth extends eleven millimeters (half an inch) it is automatically sliced off leaving an exactly circular slab of meaty(tm) protein rich fungal matter. This is coloured and deposited in a small refrigerated compartment. The deluxe model has a small non stick cooking surface. The super deluxe model has a UV lamp that increases the vitamin D content. The Grand model has a selection of non cylindrical growing chambers so you can make square Burgers(tm). Several different Fungi have been developed for use in this unit.
Produces
- Two Burgers(tm) per day
Requires
- A small amount of power
- A small amount of water
- A prepackaged "burger" starter substrate or one Food unit of Red algae and spores every ten days.
- Monthly maintenance

Bunkertech Hotdog(tm) Unit
Works exactly like the Burger(tm) unit except it makes hot dogs

Bunkertech Fish(tm) Unit
This unit houses a tank that provides all the everything required to raise a close relative of the brine shrimp (SeaMonkey). It automatically extracts, colours and compresses the shrimp into a selected mold. Standard molds include "Cocktail Shrimp", "Cube", "Crisp" and "Fillet"
Produces
- Two Fish(tm) meals a week
Requires
- Starter
- One food unit of Blue Algae
- Monthly maintenance and cleaning

Bunkertech Desert(tm) Unit
This produces a range of Jelly like desert products
Produces
- two Deserts(tm) or Jelly Cubes(tm) per hour
Requires
- One Food(tm) unit of light brown algae
- One Food(tm) unit of Purple Algae

Bunkertech Notbutter(tm) Unit
This is a more complicated unit that extracts and refines the oil content from yellow algae.
Produces
-a small amount of almost margarine like product per hour. One stick
Requires
- One food unit of yellow algae
- A considerable amount of power

Bunkertech Production Backup Unit
This unit is used to create the "starters" used by other units. It processes live algae, fungi and shrimp into long life "starters". Care must be taken to avoid cross contamination, failure to do so will result in a mixed starter, for example Bioluminescent Algae could get mixed with a White Algae starter.
Requires
- A sample equivalent to one Food(tm) unit
- power
- relatively skilled user
Produces
- Several hundred "Starter"

Bunkertech Sterilizer Unit
This is a larger unit that is used for the sole purpose of cleaning the other (disassembled) units without the added requirement of cleaning chemicals.
Requires
- A moderate amount of Power

Bunkertech Lifepack(tm) Unit
This unit takes existing Food(tm) heat treats it and seals it in tough plastic packets for storage or transport. Some models also irradiate the food for greater shelf life.
Produces
- Long Life Food(tm)
Requires
- Power
- Rolls of Lifepack(tm) plastic sheet.

Bunkertech Bun(tm) Unit
Works like a bread maker, uses white algae pellets, NotButter(tm) and jelly Cubes(tm) to make a bread like product.
Requires
- One food(tm) unit of White Algae, one stick of NotButter(tm), one Jelly Cube(tm).
Produces
- Four Buns(tm)

Produces
- Long lasting food of reasonable nutritional value and good appearance that lacks any real flavour.
- Many useful algae starters that could be used on a larger scale
- Potentially could provide a solid biological foundation for long term agriculture.

Requires
- Knowledge of farming techniques
- More artificial flavourings

I'll probably think up more.
[Edit, here are some more, http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...postcount=310]

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I am totally stealing this the next time I run Fallout.


Soylent buns are made from people!

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Bunkertech largely finished

Other ideas
- cabinet farms.
- homestead
- small scale
- mall
- full scale bunker food production
- nomads
- dry environment
- various TLS

Quite an interesting exercise, anyone else have any ideas or suggestions they want looked at? On a side note about half of the algae types exist already.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

If this is an After-the-end game, perhaps "scavanger" can be an occupational template. Their job is to obtain what can be obtained from desolate places, and negotiate or fight with rivals of their kind for material. Because of their wider array of knowledge perhaps scavangers are often elected as settlement leaders.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Your Dalton Mountain fallout shelter is great and all, but I'd like a larger mature TL9 example to work from. The kind of shelter that's comfortable enough that I could have PCs be from it and treat them like people from before "The End" but in an after the end scenario set many years after "The End". Or for example make a campaign that's built around trying to find such a place and gain entrance becouse it's just that much better then the outside world.

I'm not sure just how extensive your expertise are, but it would also be great to have dedicated list of trade goods for the settlements. Like what kind of "cash crops" it can make or the tools it should be able to produce.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Two questions.

Firstly could you elaborate on just how the Bun unit's product differs from actual bread in taste, look, texture and smell?

Secondly whats the logistical leap to go from growing sea monkeys to actuarial fish? I recall watching a TED talk that mentioned sustainable fish farming and mussels, clupeids and tilapias have very high rates of conversion from plant protein to animal protein.

Video: https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_green...ge=en#t-622180

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The Bunkertech units are a fallout inspired equipment selection for a 1960s TL8 or 9. With no yeast or gluten the Buns (tm) would be at best like a stale mcdonalds basic hamburger bun. Think of the cheapest bread available.

The brine shrimp where included because some varieties can remain dormant for decades. Larger fish farms require "live" stock so they didn't fit the Bunkertech example. I have fish farms lined up for the "cabinet" farming section. I wanted to review bio-tech before getting too carried away. At TL9 cryogenic fish spawn sounds feasible, some natural species can last a long time on ice as it is. Speaking of cold, cichlids including tilapia would not be ideal species for subterranean aquaculture due to heating requirements.

When it comes to trade goods I am slowing adding detail to the other settlements, but I want to leave them fairly open for who ever wants to use them. The produce and requires are there for traders and people selling their loot for food.

Rather than "cash" crops the ATE example maybe better thought of as "investment" crops, that is to say ones that last.

TL 9 write up is coming.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The U.N.W.F.P. Subterranean Agriculture long term viability program, AKA Salt
Description
At the end of the decaying road you come to an overhang of rock, a man made wall seamlessly extends a dozen meters up and twice that across. Recessed into an alcove is a door with no visible lock or handle.

Assumptions
- TL 9, Large complex.
- Dedicated to long term habitation.
- Rather than using on a whole range of techniques for each stage of the agricultural system the facility focuses on just one technique.
- Big money operation
- Skilled people involved
- Out of the way location
- Power generation is either a combination of solar and fission (requiring periodic refueling) or a geothermal bore.

Notes
- TL9 biotechnology provides lots of options so not all will be explored.
- This could just as easily be a subterranean farm attached to a larger facility.

Tank production
These are large facilities that house multiple high surface area vats (Most photosynthetic algae only grows in the first 75mm of water).
- Algae for bio-fuel, alcohol and plastics.
- Algae for animal food.
- Algae for backup food.
- Fungal protein.
- Algae and bacteria for filtration purposes.
- Waste processing.
- Atmospheric processing (depending on End)

Crops
The crops are grown in a "Bio system" to maintain a complex environment. This environmental complexity adds to the robustness and durability of the system. Most staple foods are grown in a steady rotation. Floating gardens incorporating algae, insects, invertebrates, fish and shellfish are the mainstay of the vegetable production system. Under precisely tuned lights long troughs of nutrient rich water are filled with a variety of cold tolerant fish and shellfish. In one end of the trough young plants are either placed in floating containers or are attached to floats if they suit a hydroponic approach. Each of the containers absorbs just the right amount of water for the plants and organisms within. GE endophytes on the plants steadily provide all the elements required for growth in the most easily absorbed form. Each new plant pushes the older plants closer to the far end of the trough. When the plants get to the far end of the trough the plant is harvested, the organisms within are fed to the fish and the growing medium is washed and cycles to a new growing system to avoid toxin buildup.

A mechanical version of this system is used for plants that desire a dryer climate or suit more intensive cultivation, cereals for example.

Mushroom farms are present as well as a range of more traditional gardens growing medically useful plants.

Orchards
Perennials are grown and trained into espalier (to grow flat against the wall) along many interior walls. The lighting system adds light in the green spectrum whenever people are present. GE Insects are present including subterranean bees (a solitary variety). You can walk along a pleasantly leafy corridor and pick fruit year round. The perennials grown in a gravely medium that allows nutrient rich water to flow freely through.

Livestock
The use of frozen sperm, eggs and embryos results in a "four dimensional" breeding program to maintain viable genetic material for the widest range of animals possible, for example a cow has artificial insemination to produce a calf, the embryo/zygote of this calf is extracted and stored while an unrelated calf extracted 20 years before is implanted in its place. This will maintain the genetic health and diversity for many times longer than mere freezing.
Feed lots are maintained for all commonly farmed species and several useful non farmed species.

Mineral extraction
Plants need the following elements, nitrogen, phosphorus , potassium, calcium, sulfur, magnesium, boron, chlorine, manganese, iron, zinc, copper, molybdenum, nickel. Nitrogen is extracted form the air by GE bacteria, the small losses that the biosystem's make are covered to some extent by water-blasting the local bedrock. But no closed system is perfect and sooner of later someone will have to get more.

Skills present
All TL9 relating to plants and animals.

Produces
- Food, lots of it, no need for food preservation with refrigeration and abundance though.
- Genetics,
- Bio-fuel and plastics
- Poisons
- medicine
- Soil
- Full range of animal products

Requires
- Raw materials
- Knowledge of the outside world and samples
- Fissionable materials if it relies on a reactor
- Sulfur and a small amount of water if no Geothermal bore is present,
- Oddly enough, Salt
- Some types of manufacturing equipment

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I like what you've done, in this thread, rather a lot. Here's an interesting scenario, for you:

Assumptions
-TL 8 technology available at the time of the collapse
-Area is a temperate rainforest (two varieties -- most in the world are coastal, but it could also be one of the pockets in the Appalachians, or the Changai Mountains)
-Humanity is hunted by an enemy that has early TL9 assets.
--A rogue AI, perhaps.
--Possibly aliens who either arrived in an ark vessel, or got FTL early, or shifted over from another dimension.
-Alternatively, humanity is hunted by reasonably intelligent, winged, monsters or mutants.
-The enemies use two methods to target or hunt.
--Clusters of heat signatures significantly higher than ambient temperatures
--Interruptions (especially straight lines) in the physical geography

Thoughts
I'd think the situation would require a focus on foods that grow natively, planted in what I almost think of as "elvish agriculture." Rather than carve out areas in the forest to dedicate to foodstuffs, the existing biome is shaped to maximize useful plants while minimizing anything recognizable as "agriculture." Interruptions of the forest canopy are especially to be avoided.

At the same time, human beings need to work together for defense against actively hostile enemies, but must avoid clustering in large settlements.

So, what sorts of crops would work best (I'm betting grains aren't available, except for wild rice, possibly), what sorts of livestock could be supported (pigs would probably work best, and perhaps small cattle, but horses are right out), and what would be the population density?

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

This is fantastic E, what's the minimum size such a facilitate could be and still be self sufficient? Also how much surplus could one expect from that size?


I have an idea for a game whose PCs were residence of a place like this that accepted a band of survivors inside. Unfortunately do to the caring capacity being stretch thin do so some lax regulation on food consumption and the accepted number of infant births in a given year. So the PCs are volunteers (or so the governing body says for those players who don't want to play saints) who are being ejected from their home in order to let others have a chance to live.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

With TL9 the food production would be incredibly efficient. 50 people could be fed from a 3m x 3m tunnel about 500m long. So each person requires a 3mx3mx10m space for continual high quality fresh food, including meat. Add to that the living, storage, workshop and power generation space.

Without major equipment failure it would be hard to justify a food shortage from a facility like SALT. All they need to do is make more growing space.

Remembering that it's a TL9 facility and a lot of the variables about production are largely guesses, I would say it's reasonable that a primarily research facility like salt could produce high quality food for 10-20 times as many people who work there. If you reduce the quality then maybe double the production.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Ok scratch that idea. On a similar note, you mention that any closed system will eventually falter. So what's the first major resource that SALT could run out of that wouldn't be unreasonable for a group of PCs to be sent out to obtain.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

For an easy find, copper or specific alloys of copper for wiring any expansion.
Parts for 3D printers and auto factories. Specific computer parts or raw materials for printing new chips and boards. A key machine would be whatever makes the LEDs. They might also be after genetic material of any plants or animals that are tolerating the new post End conditions.

There may even be a whole shopping list of misc parts for the machinery that makes their goods.

Plastics are all made in house with home grown resources but metals would need to be salvaged. Bulk supplies of any of the elements that plants require.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The only problem with the farming town is that it would be impossible to wall in the farmland. If you are working on a TL 4 infrastructure, the highest level sustainable with such a small population, with TL 9 artifacts, you would need around one acre of cultivated land per person for maximum variety of diet (which is the sustainable level required for a non-Western diet). Careful management can increase carrying capacity to ten people per acre at TL4, but it requires massive inputs of manure, more than could be produced by a community of 100 people. You would probably also require an additional four acres per capita of coppiced woodlands to generate sufficient lumber and firewood, as well as mushrooms, for your people if they are facing an Ice Age environment.

The problem with a SALT facility is the power requirement. If you are pure vegetarian, you need a minimum of 2 GJ per day per capita to safely grow the plants to support the people. If you are omnivorous, you need a minimum of 20 GJ per day per capita to safely grow the plants that feed the animals that support the people. In the former case, you need a constant 4 MW of electricity for 100 people. In the latter case, you need a constant 40 MW of electricity for 100 people.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

TL 4 is not part of the equation, it is more what survives from the TL 8 or 9 starts. Regarding mainstreet there is a note somewhere about the availability of the NPK fertilizer bases. Main Street has TL 6 or 7 chemistry remember. I also assumed an almost continual cycling of the soil for the control of blights etc. Walls are an essential part of the setting, but may be open or slanted enough to let light in. I reduced the staple crop production by 40% in my calculations to reflect the cramped conditions. Remember one of the components was TL8+ high yielding potatoes.

Kings port had the assumption of freely available dead and dried standing timber harvested by machine. Even at 2 hectares per annum they will have only knocked over 80 hectares in the assumed 40 years/two short generations. I assumed a climate with similarities to the most northern and now uninhabited Scottish islands.

Regarding Salt
2 gigajoules per day equals 23.148kw*, and I was assuming a TL fission power plant was maybe 500-1000 mws. Out of interest can you source the giga joules requirement please, I am curious.

My assumption was the equivalent of 3000w of lighting per m2 (using 50% efficiency energy to light transfer and adding 30% improvement for using a reduced spectrum). That equals 100kw per person for the vegetable component, the animals where on an algae based diet. The improvement in those numbers for TL 9 is not factored in. That's as far as I went on that calculation as the back of the envelope level of detail resulted in 5000 people worth of food. Reduce the efficiency by a factor of 10 and you can still support 500 people.

These are back of the envelope calculations that are aiming for plausible (a subjective term I know). Hopefully leaning towards realistic.

*unless there is something else you are factoring in?

Edit
Working on the sub canopy farming. I'm assuming no IR means no fire or thermal ovens.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The average human being needs 2250 kilo calories per day, which is roughly 10 MJ per person per day. Plant crops have a 1% photosynthetic efficiency and natural light LED capable of the required intensity have a 50% efficiency, meaning that 2 GJ per person per day would be required for minimal substance on a vegetarian diet with no support crops. Meat animals and support crops (barley for beer, cotton for clothing, hemp for fiber, and tobacco for smoking) would reduce overall efficiency by 90%, which would mean that you need 20 GJ per person per day.

If you have an acre per person, you have more than sufficient energy production. If not, you would require an average supply of 240 kW per person and, more importantly, you need energy for life support (ventilation, sterilization, etc) so you can recycle biological material with minimal threat of disease, increasing power consumption to 400 kW per person. The final energy requirement would be 40 MW, requiring a 100 MW power plant with a 40% conversions efficiency.

If fission, your rods are done within two decades. If fusion, you would need around 14 kilograms of tritium per year, which is more than the current global. Even if you could find sufficient tritium, it has a half-life of 12.5 years, so a fusion power plant would likely run out of supplies within 25 years. Breeding tritium is a highly advanced technology and would be impossible in an economy of less than a million people. TL4 comes from the fact that it is the highest TL that can be sustained with a population below 10 million people.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Wouldn't both the vegetarian and omnivorous require support crops?

What about the geothermal bore E mention in the text?

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

They would, the vegetarian example was just for bare nutrition. A geothermal bore is capable of supplying a maximum of 1 MW of energy (around 300 kW of electricity) unless you are exploiting a geothermal hotspot. In any case, a group of 100 people would not be able the maintain the equipment. It is simply impossible for a community that small to maintain anything above TL4. They may have the knowledge, but they lack the infrastructure.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The first calculation for the 2 gigajoules would have a 30% improvement factor from not using frequencies of light not used by plants. That reduces the demand to 1.5 gigajoules or approximately 17kw per person.

The other 90% number for animals and non food crops etc I set at 40% due to algae farming and plastics for fibre. The TL would maintain longer locally as it was assumed to be a research facility with auto factories. Edit. At 40% you get say 24kw per person.

It also not about maintaining the TL the assumption for ATE is fairly high technological endurance. So for setting specific reasons the TL decline is on the optimistic side.

I would say a TL9 geothermal generator made a bit more power, but as that's sci-fi terrain it is merely speculation, They are by there very nature quite easy to scale up.

The lifespan of the fuel for fission is an issue however, in my thought process I just ticked the box "advance breeder reactor" and made a note about refueling it.

Edit
The ventilation issues would be mitigated by design especially with the ability to use waste heat to generate movement, that waste heat may be useful for sterilization purposes as well. My thinking was the sterilization issues where going to be smaller(not absent) as a result of the bio-system approach. Cold plasma related technologies might also be used for cleaning/sterilizing. I am also speculating about what highly qualified people who are more advanced than me can do. . .
Photosynthesis is about 1-6% effective for energy conversion as well, with crops around 2-3%, again this is discounting any improvements in TL9 genetics. The 30% improvement for controlling the light spectrum could also be plausibly increased to 50% or higher, I just reduced the efficiency for my calculation as a matter of coarse.
Edit the second
If the power generation grates against your plausibility standards, change it for another, subterranean hydroelectric, beamed power from orbit or whatever suits. The beamed power would make a good defensive barrier option to. Power is the limiting factor in this operation and gurps ultratech shys away from specifics.
Edit the third
Sorry about the multiple edits but I am only just looking at this specific angle of analysis, fully tweaked artificial light might do better than 15% efficiency for crops 10% seems quite achievable for TL 9, Natural sugar cane apparently manages 8% efficiency on plain sunlight.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Whaler's Bay

Additional assumptions
- Fire is to be avoided
- Some kind of cooperation happens between communities, either trade or organized resistance.
- Family sized groups of people, up to ten people.
- Highest density fruit tree plantings are about 5% of a "farmed" area
- Due to home garden plantings there are a range of fruit trees and nuts available.
- Planting under glass is to be avoided due to reflected light

Notes
- Whaler's Bay is a large coastal valley containing three or four small micro-climates.
- Netting and other barriers to protect plants would be valuable salvage.
- If it is possible to conceal the electrical activity then Hydroelectric power could be used for numerous purposes. Refrigerating and Microwaving food would be very useful.
- Even without electricity water power would be very useful.
- Wheel barrows and hand carts
- Alcohol and vinegar would be extremely useful for food preservation, vacuum and cold stills might be used.
- Airtight containers extremely valuable.
- Nomadic is a switch for this example. It could also be modified to work from a central point.
- Assuming fruit and nut trees are producing about 5% of modern yield due to pests, shade, nutrition and diffuse planting.
- 120 kgs of produce per hectare, farming skill rolls are all about timing in this environment.
- 5 hectares per person for fresh food for 9 months of the year.
- Large amounts of food wastage
- For 3 months of the year the diet would be stored food would be supplemented by hunting.
- Good hunting with high animal populations.
- Odd bits of machinery are stored all over each family groups territory, stills, presses etc.
- 50 hectares (productive) to support a family group, assuming 50% percent productive for whalers bay means an area 1km square.
- If 5% planting is too thick for fruit trees, 1% would have each family group over 500 hectares or a square 2.25 km a side.

Resources
- Olives and avocados pre-End.
- Garden supply store and several gardens had fruit and nut trees.

Description
Traveling during the heat of the day to lessen your IR signature you crest the top of the ridge overlooking Whaler's bay. Even this late in the season you can still see fruit here and there in the branches. The narrow track has been marked by the passing of people and pigs.

Orchards
Biological controls used to reduce pests, some species of wasps may be encouraged. Pheromone and scent traps would also be used to reduce pests.
- Olives and avocados would be important sources of fats and oils.
- Fruit, a range of varieties to ensure a long season. Early and late fruiting varieties for everything planted.
- Apples under the right conditions can be stored for a long time so they would be popular.
- Tree nuts and trees that produce nut like bodies would be valued for their shelf life. Macadamias, pine nuts, walnuts, hazelnut would all tolerate the climate.
- Lemons, extremely useful for chemically cooking fish and meat.
- Any local and native plants that are useful will be encouraged with the exception of species that exclude competition, beech and some pine varieties for example.
- Grafting techniques would be well utilized.

Crops
Due to low density planting the population would be fairly mobile. For plant care weekly visits would be desired. Moving over several season trails/circuits, ideally they would be arriving at an area in time to tend one crop and harvest another.
- Basket grown vegetables, with planting near trees the soil will be hard to cultivate, depleted to some extent by tree roots and in deep shade. Some species may do better if they are grown in hanging baskets. This also puts them out of reach of some animals. (Certain "Herbal" crops have been planted on platforms in trees for concealment near where I live).
- Stream and Wetland planting. Small dams would provide good environments for water loving plants, watercress, wild rice. Controlled flooding would also suit Japanese Millet as careful timing would reduce any weed competition.
- Cabbages would be suitable as well as many other leafy vegetables. Kimchi and similar storage/cooking techniques would be present.
- Turnips and potatoes are extremely useful, if they can be cooked. If not some kumara/sweet potatoes can be eaten raw. All these species do well in shade but still will need some direct light.
- Artichokes would be handy for late season nutrition
- Some hemp production for fiber.

Livestock
Pigs and possibly smaller cattle might be kept in a semi-feral manner. Any natural area that could contain them would be improved on. Stone walls, ha ha's, water sources and semi-permanent traps (capture and kill) would be the extent of the infrastructure. Beneficial plantings would follow to provide food for the animals for as much of the year as possible.
- Japanese millet on margins would make some areas more attractive to wild fowl.
- Fish traps.
- Each family group would have companion animals, a tame pig or two as a food storage device, goats would add dairy products. They would be taken from the semi-feral populations and domesticated while young. Dogs may have the added benefit of being able to herd animals beyond the cover of the canopy, if so they would be useful.
- Some means of gathering salt would be needed if refrigeration does not exist. Capture ponds with air drying wicks for salt to crystallize on.

Produces
- Stored food, Apples, salted meat, nuts, Kimchi, pickled eggs, preserves, potted meat (maybe), dried fruit (poor quality), a few potato varieties.
- Oils, olive and avocado. large quantities in a good year.
- Hempen fiber
- Alcohol

Requires
- Netting
- Containers
- Possibly salt
- Tools

Skills present in the community
- Hiking
- Farming (orchards)
- Animal handling
- Cooking
- Area knowledge
- Traps
- Weaving/rope making
- Camouflage
- Missile weapon
- Climbing

This example merits a reexamination with a few of the assumptions changed, the results may be quite different.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Oh, I think the occasional hot spot is fine. The setting is post-apocalyptic, and that means even if we do go with alien aerial surveillance or HKs sent by rogue AIs, they won't have much in the way of infrastructure, either, except in the immediate vicinity of their bases.

So, while campfires or grills pose some risk, it's pretty limited. They'd need pretty spectacular satellite coverage for small fires to pose real and immediate risks, every single time. Pretty spectacular satellite coverage implies a sophisticated aerospace infrastructure, and post-apocalyptic settings don't have that.

Basically, the larger and hotter the heat-source, the more interest it would draw, especially if it it lit up sensors for a long time. Under those conditions, I don't think a cook-fire would draw too much attention, although a pottery kiln might. If the area is as rugged as Appalachia (which isn't terrible), even that might be okay, a lot of the time.

The main thing, unlike the other setting, is that the people couldn't form a dun, or any other sort of fortified central village -- which is the ideal situation for most post-apocalyptic settlements. My basic assumption, here, is that a defensible central village, surrounded by open fields, would get attacked.

That means a model of human settlement that has worked, well, for nearly every culture throughout human history cannot work, here.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Honey bees would be really good for this setup. You can spread them out in "log" hives (like African beekeepers use), they are low maintenance, and they will help the various fruit trees quite a bit. And honey can be used to preserve fruits and meat.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Thanks (E) these are awesome, a great starting point for me to adjust for my own games.

I´d be interested in your ideas for a desert/dry setting, very Mad Max style.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Bunkertech Beverage(tm) despenser.*
"Have you thought what you'll do on those quiet evenings while you're waiting for the all clear to sound? Well think no more! Introducing the Bunkertech Beverage(tm) despenser. Simply fill with basic white algae, your favourite flavour cartridges and you can enjoy a drink with your Bunkertech meal" the image on the TV screen shows a smiling crowd at a dinner party.
Produces
- 30 beverages(tm) a week.
-- Beer flavoured
-- wine flavoured (both kinds, red and white)
Requires
- 1 meal (tm) of white algae
- water
- power
- weekly cleaning.
- artificial flavour
- Yeast starter
Note
Frequently jury rigged to make something more potent.

Bunkertech Junior Beverage(tm) despenser
A smaller unit that acts like a soda maker and can also produce sweet tasting gelatinous beverages.
Produces
- Soda
Requires
- CO2
- water
- flavourings
Produces
- 10 Shakes (tm)
Requires
- 1 meal (tm) of light brown algae
- 1 meal (tm) of Purple algae

*research shows shelters with a Beverage(tm) despenser have a 60% increase in endurance before RTC**

**Resort To Canabalism

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

This is really good. As I noted, before you posted, I'd think cook-fires would be perfectly okay for a couple of hours a day, and even a kiln in a remote location (and concealed in a cave, or under an overhang) might be fine, a lot of the time.

I like the need for camouflage netting, and containers for long-term storage. You'd need to cache food, as it ripens, and the semi-nomadic nature of the lifestyle would mean you couldn't carry everything with you, all the time.

Salt is very important as a preservative, but if it was a coastal forest, that wouldn't be too tough to get. It's a different story up in the Appalachians, though.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I agree. Bees hive in lots of different places, and those African log hives are an elegant addition.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Oasis agriculture is actually a thing. It uses layered tree canopies to make maximum use of the real estate in close proximity to the water source, and sometimes irrigation ditches to bring the water out out to walled (to keep the sand out) grain fields. My understanding is that it works best in tropical or subtropical latitudes, because date palms are key to success, and those don't grow in temperate climates.

Date palms planted the windward side of the water source help keep out blowing sand, while others planted throughout the area provide an important canopy for other fruit tries.

Beneath the canopy provided by date palms, oases usually have olives, apricots and/or lemons (maybe other citrus fruits, as well...). Beneath that additional shade, the inhabitants plant vegetables, or just have grass or fodder plants.

Cereal grains are the biggest challenge, I understand, although if the area has winter rains, one can grow wheat, barley or millet, and supplement meager rainfalls with irrigation.

I think the major constraint is the presence of a consistent and reliable groundwater supply, and whether or not enough rain falls in the winter to allow the growth of cereal grains. Maize would probably do okay, if the oasis water supply was large enough to irrigate, I think.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The biggest threat to oasis agriculture is that people will cut down the trees, exposing the oasis to the wind and sand. After a few months, the oasis is covered by sand unless it is shielded by geological formations. It is one of the reasons why the Sahara and Kalahari Deserts are growing in Africa. The other two reasons are over grazing by herds and the extinction of the mega fauna that evolved to maintain the plains and forests.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The person who has beehives in his orchard, head desks.

I'll write up the Inland subcanopy farming with fire included, any other assumptions to include?

I have another couple of other examples to work through first though.

Edit Regarding dry conditions, other farming types/locations would include cloud harvesting from the west coast of South America, cistern systems, cold dry climates as well. Australian billabong plant life would be worth a look too.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

No other assumptions, and take your time, there's no hurry. This is kind of a back-burner thing that could very well prove useful, in my Facets campaign. :)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Your usual options for gluten free bread-like substitutes are dense and crumbly (like a badly-made cake), wet and rubbery (until it dries and turns brittle), cracker-like, or bordering on rock-like (like, well, crackers, or a ships biscuit). Pure cornbread with no wheat is pretty dense and crumbly (but nice and moist), many of the non-grain "flours" make cracker stuff, and rice can end up in either form.

There are some fairly convincing "breads" - they need guar gum and mad science to make, I'm pretty sure they're TL8 or even early TL 9 cookery.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

There are a few secret brands that are better than real bread. There is a place in Syracuse, NY that has the best bread, gluten-free or otherwise, that I have had, and Toomy's in Strongsville, OH has the best pizza I have had, gluten-free or otherwise. I agree, however, that most of them are quite bad still.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Northgate Mall

Assumptions
- Mad Max type end, change in local climates, more arid weather.
- Mature TL 8 End
- 2 generations and 40+ years since the End (this is standard for the examples so far)
- 100 shop mall, two storied building, glass roofed atrium with five glass roofed corridors.
- Due to random bureaucratic reasoning the store is quite well built
- No reliable annual rain
- Soil while slightly toxic can support some hardy plants.

Resources
- Health food shop, supermarket, gym, big box store with garden centre, health food store, pet store with aquariums, book stores, big box car parts store, big box hardware store, big box sports store.

Notes
- Northgate is a glass roofed mall that has been partially converted into a huge green house.
- An example of a fortress garden that is not going so well.
- Mirrors on the roof increase the “day” for the plants inside
- Water poor
- Would work as a fortress type structure, possibly taken over by a violent group who are holding the locals as slaves.
- Might work as a Base of operations for the PC's to own and improve.
- Has a high level of infrastructure but not necessarily a high level of education. They did have a book store though. None of the original population of Northgate had any practical experience with farming.
- The use of a wind turbine and solar panels have allowed refrigeration.
- The other resources at Northgate make it a valuable location
- the gardening supplies from the big box store(s) have allowed the community to last this long but they are running out.

Description
You cross the vacant and sand scoured car-park, it is obvious that this is an ideal killing ground for uninvited guests. Hardy plants are visible here and there in the old drainage zones. The roller cage lifts allowing you access into dark interior. You almost have to crawl though the stacks of car parts to make it through the door into the open and brightly lit atrium. The brightness and humidity come as a shock and you stand open mouthed as you stare up at the huge plants. “they're called trees” a voice calls out.

Water
- The old aquarium has been converted into a water purification and recycling system. The main problem is that it does not process water very quickly.
- Acidic rainwater
- Several tanker trucks serve as water storage tanks.
- Car park run off is collected and used as a reserve water source, it requires pumping by hand to get into the storage tanks.

Orchards
The orchards are well developed and cared for, however the people doing lacked proper training and the harvest has suffered as a result. The pre End irrigation systems have been largely maintained. The trees are grown in raised beds. Primarily apples, plums and pears.
- 250m of wide glass roofed atrium, 0.25 Hectares
- The garden center, 0.2 Hectares
- Some single trees planted under skylights
- To maximize space and minimize plant damage some orchard work is performed from hanging gantries.
- Where the sun permits the fruit trees are grown along the wall.
- Mirrors are used through out to maximize light.

Crops
To start with there was a wide range of crops at Northgate, in the years since the end a great deal of the variety has been lost, remaining are beans, sweet potato, beetroot, radishes, tomatoes, garlic and herbs. The soil has become too acidic and is suffering from imbalanced nutrients and persistent fungal blight. The excessive use of chicken manure and fish bones are the main culprits as they have resulted in a phosphorous overabundance.
- 0.5 Hectares of “new” green house like structures on the roof
- Pot plants inside windows

Outside crops
The health of the exterior plantings is low but trial and error have resulted in the following plants surviving. The edible yields are low and most is used for animal feed. Unbeknownst to the residents the limestone in the base of the car park is counteracting some of the acid from the rain.
- Pseudo Cereals, amaranth, quinoa
- Agave, aloe
- Prickly pear

Livestock
The possibility also exists for goats to be grazed in the vicinity, however they need to acquire goats first. The existing populations of animals are beginning to suffer from inbreeding.
- Guinea pigs
- Bantam hens
- Worms
- Fish

Other types of farming
- Algae farming in this case spirulina has failed due to the water being too acid.
- Poor thermal control has led to the failure of mushroom production.

Crunch
Poor farming knowledge, soil maintenance and inbreeding have reduced the yields considerably. 8 tonnes of food are produced annually from the orcharding and associated plantings. 5 further tonnes are produced from other interior plantings. 2 and a half more tonnes of food are produced with from exterior crops and livestock. This feeds 22 people, which is less than it used to. The ability to refrigerate food is essential to their survival.
A skilled farmer, chemist and scavenger could turn the production around. The soil could be improved and the blight lessened with better rotation, soil conditioning (possible with lime and/or rockdust), anti-fungal treatment (possibly sulfur, possibly from gypsum) and an experienced farmer(TL7+) should pick up broadly what minerals are out of balance.

Proper knowledge would be able to quadruple the food output of Northgate, A scavenger and chemist could probably get these numbers higher again. They would certainly make the systems more robust. Improved genetics and a greater range of crops would have large benefits as well. It is theoretically possible to produce 125 tonnes of fruit and 40 tonnes of other vegetables from the orcharding system with complete replanting and TL 8 techniques and insecticides etc. If Northgate's production was diversified and brought up to TL 8 standards it could conceivably support up to 280 people.

Produces
- No real food surplus, likely running at a loss
- Cider
- Animal feed/desperation food
- Crossbows and melee weapons
- Service industry, have the books and parts for mechanical work.

Stockpiles
- Car parts
- Hardware
- Mall misc

Requires
- Help
- Water purification components
- Fungicidal products
- Sulfur, Epsom salts are a possible source
- Potash (Potassium deficient system), greensand is a possible source.
- The list goes on
- Means of neutralizing acid
- Bees

Skills present
- Engineering, mechanical and electrical
- Brewing
- Metal work

Cuisine
- Good, Chicken and garlic cooked in cider served on a sweet potato puree with green beans.
- Typical, guinea pig stew with beans and tomatoes. Eggs and sweet potatoes.
- Its edible, Prickly pear and worms

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Nice! I really like the failing but salvageable setup.

Big thank you again for all of these, they give great insight and background detail for AtE settlements.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Lass' Bend

Assumptions
- 2 generations after
- Some toxic elements to the end
- Climate meltdown end, temperate areas are dry, deserts are wet.
- very dry, rains every few years, but when it does it is fairly heavy.
- Average annual rainfall about 100mm or 4 inches
- Founded by successful denizens of the early end

Resources
The group that founded Lass' Bend had access to a large truck or river boat during the early years and used it to great effect to build up the initial resources
- Large commercial green house
- A survivalist's bunker with computer, post apocalyptic data store, generator
- Market Gardener
- Botanist, chemist, geologist
- A stockpile of fertilizers, including urea and superphosphate

Notes
- The problem of creating a farm in a desert is, if you're are successful you don't have a desert
- Larger community this time
- numerous desert techniques used
- Any desert farming would be by necessity near water or mobile
- Water storage is large, easily 8000 m3 in a huge range of light weight tanks, fibreglass, metal and plastic. A second storage system is a lined storage pond that is used to hold rain catchment. Storage is in excess of 250,000 m3, Pine nut trees are maintained around the pond to reduce water loss.
- Numerous nutrient rich mineral deposits where identified by the geologist and supply the majority of the nutrient needs. Notable exceptions are Nitrogen, Sulphur and Phosphorus
- A town with a 4 figure population
- Vulnerable to long range attack, water tanks and glass are key parts of the system.
- Defenses would exist, depending on the challenges presented by the particular End that occurred.
- Best guess is the food would combine aspects of Mexican, Israeli and Palestinian cuisine.
- A longer period from the end would see more species bred for arid conditions and some dessert plants bred for human consumption.
- The main greenhouse could be used to produce a tropical fodder crop for an animal system.

Geography and conditions
- Very polluted river, water way or swamp. Deep banks.
- Rolling hills and canyons, foot hills of a mountain range.
- The community is on the opposite side of a ridge from the river/swamp
- Hot and dry
- Geologically the area is marine sediment based, limestone, mudstone and sandstones are common.
- The topography is fairly defensible. But Lass' Bend is just too large to be a fortress.

Description
Traveling along the dust road you start to catch glimpses of Lass' bend from a long way off. The huge green house draped over the ridge and the walls and fields scattered around in every sheltered spot. Walking up to the low adobe wall you see the town square with the town's canine name sake immortalized in statue form. The crowds come as a shock after the long weeks with only your own company.

Primary green house system
The main green house at Lass' bend extends down very close to the shallow river bend that gives the community it's name. The warm, slow moving and toxic water is pumped to the top of a huge screen made of dark porous material inside the green house facing south*. The solar energy is amplified by a field of mirrors. The design of the main green house is such that the hot moist air created by the screen flows up into the rest of the structure. The moist air keeps every thing within the main green house extremely humid and condenses on several purpose built collectors that provide clean flowing water. Much of the humid air is lost due to the ventilation and cooling requirements of this system. However there is still enough water condensed to irrigate the next system.
- At least half of the green house is devoid of plant life and only exists to purify/extract water.
- Some gases can build up due to pollution in the river, exact effects are setting specific. Smoking may be a flogging offence.
- This particular system takes the water a long way vertically from the river.
- hot weather and tropical species, probably salvaged from gardens.

Walled gardens
Down hill from the green house is a walled and heavily subdivided garden system. The plants that cannot tolerate the heat of the main green house are grown here. Trees and vines are trained against walls. This area is very intensively planted. A huge number of water conservation techniques are used here. The walls reduce wind, every square inch of soil is covered by something (plant, mulch, flagstone). Some of the smaller gardens in this system are roofed with glass, some are protected by frames covered in vines, some are open to the air. The inhabitants of Lass' bend primarily live around the edge of this garden. Many varieties of plants are grown here, citrus, almonds and grapes are common perennials. Maybe a square kilometer in size

Open gardens
These are fields near the walled gardens that are used for plants that can handle the arid conditions with a little help.
- Aloes
- Agaves
- Cacti

Inner fields
The Walled gardens sometimes have a water surplus, this plus stored water from rain are used to provide moisture for the field crops. Here is where various cereals and hardy plants are grown (300-400mm per year water requirement).
- Amaranth
- Quinoa
- Sorghum
- Cotton
- Drought tolerant Wheat
- Sweet potatoes
- Beans
- Lucerne
- Hemp
- Chickpeas
- Oil rich crops such as sunflower
- Several others
- Buckwheat
- Tef (Teff) is planted when the water levels are low.

Grazing zone
The positive side effect of the moisture lost from the main green house is that the dense moist air flowed down hill creating a “green zone” various hardy plants survive here. There are enough for a small population of goats to flourish.
- Goats
- Hunting(?)

Flood flats
These are areas lower than the rest of Lass' Bend they are typically narrow eroded flood plains with 2-3 meter high banks. They are planted in a plants that can grow from the one surge of moisture. Three sisters planting, four sisters planting and sometimes just Tepary beans with rock mulch are used depending on the exact location and soil type.
- Tepary and other beans
- Watermelon
- Squash
- Corn and maize

Micro gardens
In various nooks and sheltered spots around the perimeter of Lass' Bend you will find odd looking moisture collectors, some are simple like an old air cooled engine block painted white while others are hanging nets of fine woven polypropylene. They all serve the same purpose, to condense any extra moisture out of the air. This is helped by the local conditions as moist air flows from the main green house, the wind sometimes carries some moisture off the river/swamp as well. The cool surface condenses the water out of the air and then it is collected and directed to small gardens or even individual plants that are sheltered and fenced. Perennials are common as are hardy trees, some water is left accessible to encourage animal and insect activity. Each micro garden is a unique example of matching survival skills and technology to the environment. Some are camouflaged for added protection. Possible species are still fairly hardy though, Olives would be an example.

Livestock
- Chickens
- Goats
- Fish (?)
- Bees

Produces
- A wide range of vegetables and cereals
- Some dairy products
- Large enough to support a few specialists
- Fiber crops
- Oil crops
- Bread
- Coffee is possible, as well as other luxury crops.

Requires
- Glass, large sheets of glass are required to repair and enlarge the green house. Also polycarbonate & polyethylene.
- Nitrate fertilizer to supplement the urea stockpile
- Meat
- Leather
- Firewood
- Cement (powder) for building stronger water tanks, defenses etc
- Donkeys would be a valuable addition
- Insecticides and fungicides would boost production

Crunch
Provided there is a steady water supply and readily available fertilizer the walled garden system has the possibility of producing subsistence or better food for up to 4000 people when intensely farmed. Halve that if fertilizer levels are low. Higher production is possible but not sustainable long term in an AtE setting. Assume a 10% boost for Insecticides and for fungicides if a trader supplies some, although the main benefit would be to the robustness of the system. This presumes good food storage techniques are used.

The green house is a trickier case as due to plant species availability it may be almost a mono-culture, how many tropical species are available in a temperate area? For Lass' bend I am leaving it as a location for "supplemental crops" like luxuries and utility plants like sugar cane, oil rich plants, coffee, banana, jute and medicinal plants. If a full range of TL 8+ seeds and chemicals where available then production could be enough to feed more than 500 people per hectare.

The inner fields represent 150 hectares of productive land that require approximately 4000m3 of water to irrigate each hectare per crop (minus rain fall). Farming skill and meteorological guesstimates would be aiming to have the last irrigated crop coming off just before it rained, when ever that is going to be. 62 hectares of crops, representing typically 150 to 360 tonnes of energy rich long lasting cereal, Say enough for 250 more people. The typical annual rainfall will increase the production to 200-480 tonnes (if the farming rolls are successful). Portions of the inner fields will be fallow. A major rain event will see three quarters of the fields sown (some luck needed by the farmers to get the timing right) that will result in 360-720 tonnes with only a little loss from the water reserves.

The flood flats will produce maybe 2-4 tonnes of food per hectare after a flood, over 2-4 months.

While five or six thousand people is possible, a more comfortable number would be closer to three thousand.

*North if you are in the southern hemisphere or if the poles have flipped

Edit new system added, mirco gardens

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Thanks for taking the time to post all of these scenarios! Farming, especially industrial and post-industrial farming, is not one of the areas of my expertise.

Using one of those areas, I would say that Northgate has a contradiction: 22 (or 88) people are not possibly enough to defend such a sprawling building with at least five large doors plus the loading docks and ground-floor windows and rolling doors to the car-part and garden stores. Even if they have three or four machine guns and plenty of ammunition to let half a dozen men cover those empty parking lots, bad guys can sneak up in the night, or find one of the approaches which they can't watch and use that one, or create a distraction on one side while rushing another, or just find something bulletproof and ram a gate; whatever firing positions they chose, there is almost certain to be lots of dead ground on a building which was designed to have lots of display windows and make people spend time walking or driving around where they might think "oh yeah, I should pick up a new bathrobe while I am here." I would think that anyone with a bit of military experience, a biker who had fortified a clubhouse, and many history buffs could give the same report; the residents will probably figure it out if they survive the first few bandit raids without being turned into ablative armour on the bandits' Deathmobiles.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I agree that Northgate is basically impossible to defend (though there may be Ends where it works better), I left any fine detail surrounding the defenses out of the description. My own take on it was the residents used all the cars in the car park and surrounds to construct the defenses and/or build a wall. That said I was playing with the idea of writing it up as a location that had traded hands frequently with the residents being basically slaves. In the end I decided to make it as generic as possible, so it would be suitable for a wide range of circumstances. Now you mention it getting Northgate defensible would be a scenario in the making.

I forgot to mention Lass' Bend is fairly bullet vulnerable too.

Edit
Safety is boring ;)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

This thread is so cool that I am trying to think of workarounds.

Historically isolated settlements with a few dozen people survived by being part of a network and being ready to flee into the woods or the caves when riders from another settlement in the network told them trouble was coming; hiding your village in the folds of the hills so that the bad guys can't spot it from a distance can also help. The problem was that they could not protect their outbuildings and bridges and dams and canals and other infrastructure, and dense networks of settlements spoil the wasteland feeling.

One of the basic problems is geometric: the area within the fortifications increases with scale squared, while the length of perimeter increases with scale. So a town with thousands or tens of thousands of residents can have plenty of orchards and gardens and dovecotes and so on within its walls (and with leftovers from TL8+ but a wrecked environment it might be able to produce a larger share of what it needs than historical towns could produce) but a smaller settlement will have trouble defending anything but a strong house or two.

I wish I could help you brainstorm plausible-sounding workarounds for settings where people can't grow many crops in the open but are worried about raiders who don't mind killing the sheep instead of fleecing them, but I am tired and not feeling very creative.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

This is a very nice take on a post-apocalyptic oasis. I wasn't sure how a temperate zone oasis would look, but the use of Pinus monophylla (piñon pines), instead of date palms, is quite ingenious. I think those would work well in the United States, as they're native to the Desert Southwest, from southern Idaho to Baja.

A lot of stores sell pine nuts, and restaurants use them, around here. They don't produce nearly as much in the way of calories as date palms, but they can (and do) survive the cold winters.

They're not towering trees, so they couldn't act as shade for fruit orchards beneath them. You handled that nicely with the walled areas, though, and those with fairly high walls and "roofs" lightly trellised with grape vines would do the job nicely. I saw stuff like that in Seville.

You'd definitely have to train the trees to grow out instead of up, though.

Something like this could be directly applicable, in the near future, in my Facets campaign, so I'd like to see the numbers, please.

Thanks!

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I'm actually having trouble envisioning what this place is supposed to look like.

Any chance I could get a visual aid?

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

My sketching is sketchy, image search failed to get anything specific. "Saltwater greenhouses" as key words will get you the theory for the start of the water system.
Sundrop farms is an Australian project that plans on using the same technology to grow 15,000 tonnes of tomatoes per year and generate 1.2 megawatts off 20 hectares (from memory).

On a side note there may be more than one species of pine nut used, about a dozen exist.

Description
The main green house is one single building that runs from the south side of the ridge where it encloses a water evaporation system to the upper slopes of the northern side of the ridge. The southern facing is surrounded with mirrors and filled with black porous surfaces that are continually kept wet. This leads to hot moist air rising to the highest parts of the green house where it passes into the cooler northern side containing the tropical plants. Down slope from here would be the main water storage area which includes a field of water tanks and a small number of storage ponds lined with non porous material (options include some types of clay, plastic and concrete). The ponds are surrounded with a bushy species of pine and several smaller species of plant.

Immediately below the water storage area there is a walled community that is filled with small areas surrounded in high and medium walls (Moroccan cities could serve as inspiration) most of these contain gardens. The odd space is fully roofed and is a residence for the some of the inhabitants. The walls are higher around the outer regions, here and there a taller tree stands.

Several fields are below the walled community and are edged with trees and walls to reduce the drying effects of wind.

The path taken by the moist air escaping the main green house leaves an obvious trail of increased plant life. This area is walled and fenced for goats. Here and there small gardens may be visible in areas where the moist air is more concentrated and collectors have been built.

Possible farming location that are easier to defend
- Quarry, heavy machinery and explosives can make some impressive cliffs.
- Stadium
- Island
- tall buildings

Crunch finished, hit character limit too. As a result I'll add here that the green house moves a considerable amount of water and it works better on hotter days when it is needed more. The condensers and reflectors will cover a large area.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Grey Island

This is a dream scenario for comparison and to show how well a tiny space may be used.

Assumptions
- Temperate to sub-tropical island
- Reasonably sheltered
- Fresh water readily available
- No real fishing
- Some initial structures
- Easily defended island
- Population has grown
- Late TL 8 / Early TL 9 end
- 3 generations since the end
- Small island
- Easy boat access to other less habitable but useful locations

Resources
- Reasonable selection of plants and crops
- Good salvage opportunities
- Accessible islands include, limestone, bird colonies and volcanic.
- Boats and ships to salvage
- Wharf
- Tidal power generation sufficient to power refrigeration and cooking.

Notes
- Space is the biggest/only restriction
- Loosely based on Urupukapuka island in the bay of islands, NZ. (Urupukapuka is ten times the size, bonus points for finding the obscure link to the name Grey Island). The bay of islands is a good location to look up in google maps for an AtE location.
- Huge fertilizer input required. Nitrogen especially as fast growing crops require more. Also useful for countering the effects of excess salt.
- Terraced
- Just above the high tide line there is a wall, housing and hedges running around the entire island although this is quite low on the southern side.
- This is a hypothetical best case scenario for food production in an open environment, mainly for the purposes of showing the maximum production. Any system this intense is likely to collapse after a short amount of time without outside assistance.

Geography
- Large amounts of coastline
- About 10 hectares productive, 2 hectares rock and coastline.
- Large dam where the only stream on the island joins the water

Description
Every inch of the rolling hills is covered with plants, not one dead plant can be seen. Terraced gardens are dotted with tunnels extending deep into the hills.

Crops
Intensely gardened with crops being planted in layers, Canopy trees are planted along the northern edge of the island as well as against southern facing walls of the taller terraces. The sub canopy trees are planted almost underneath the larger trees to maximise the use of light. Vines and creepers adorn the trees. Shrubs are the next tallest group of plants and while these are scattered about they are not found in clumps so the shadows they cast don't adversely effect the smaller plants. Companion planting abounds as does doubling up species where possible, beans climb corn while potatoes and squash are crammed in beneath. Small greenhouses not much larger than the plants they hold are used to speed up the growth. Hanging from branches are baskets and bags with yet more plants growing in them, such as tomatoes and potatoes.

Tunnel system
Heated by the composting action of the waste material from the gardens the man made caves provide an environment suitable for mushroom production. Cooler tunnels are used for worm farms to provide fish and chicken food.

Livestock
The fish farming system and the irrigation system are one and the same. A multitude of small and medium tanks are distributed around the island, a percentage of the tanks also hold fresh water shellfish. Chickens are kept in tight conditions on the cooler northern facing slopes of the island. A small population of goats is maintained to process any surplus leafy material.


Crunch
As TL 8 or 9 crop yields are hypothetical at best here are some wild guess numbers. They are still less than TL 8 intensive single species production (apple orchards can reach 200 plus tonnes to the hectare, greenhouse tomatoes 750 tonnes per hectare per annum)
Each cave (4mx6m) produces two tonnes of mushrooms per annum. The 9 hectares of genetically engineered crops produce 50 tonnes per hectare every 120 days and are quite resistant to disease. 1350 tonnes per annum plus a maximum of 200 tonnes of mushrooms. Chickens, goats and fish add variety and necessary dietary requirements but only about 50 tonnes more food as a percentage of their diet is food that would of otherwise gone to feed the residents.

1600 tonnes presumes everyone lives under something else. As do the pigs and many other animals. Only 10% of the space is wasted utilities and buildings.

Wasted food accounts for a quarter of production, this could be recycled as pork at a rate of four to one in a high feed conversion animal (TL9) so 400 tonnes of waste becomes 100 tonnes of pork.

Leaving a good diet and 1300 tonnes of food that could theoretically support say 1300 people provided they have no other requirements. Reduce that to 800 once other needs are taken into account. It would still be a breeding ground for disease. (current farming supports something like 35 people per productive hectare (when dealing with calorie rich crops) once industrial, utility and animal related production is excluded) Meat and animal products are eaten about half as much as in a modern diet.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

That the island has poor fishing, and that the other nearby islands have even poorer fishing, that's really quite ominous...

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

DSCN* Stadium

Assumptions
- TL 8 End
- Salvage provides a reason to be in the city.
- 4 hectares within the stadium
- A whole city to source plants and seeds from.
- 1 or 2 generations since End
- either reasonable weather or the residents have managed to restore part of the municipal water system or put down a bore.
- sufficient feral animal populations or trading partners to keep the gene pool healthy.

Notes
- if hay is a possibility then keeping the animals inside for longer than 2 days in a siege situation is possible. It would also be a requirement if there was prolonged snow coverage in winter.
- The animals provide a source of manure for the gardens.
- high crop rotation
- a reasonable population might be 100 people without the use of a chemist/botanist. With access to the right chemical fertilizers/treatments doubling the population is possible
- the stadium served as a civil defence depot.
- Crops may be planted outside the stadium depending on the end. Shallow rooted crops would work best.

Description
The old stadium has seen serious renovation in recent years to meet the requirements of a post apocalyptic population. Most of the entrances have been concreted over and many fire escape bylaws have been violated to improve security. You are fairly sure that lookout tower wouldn't be up to code either. What was the car park is now a grass covered field with fruit trees growing in small fenced off areas.

Crops
The interior of the stadium has been completely devoted to gardens including the seating area. Primarily potatoes and high yielding garden varieties. Vines and climbers are used to take advantage of the vertical services and use as much of the available light as possible. Some mushrooms are grown inside the structure.

Livestock
Inside the stadium chickens, guinea pigs, worms and fish are farmed. These animals are mainly used as a means to store surplus food.

Goats and cattle are kept as well, every morning they are taken out to graze on the grasses that dominate the previously sealed surfaces of the city and are returned at night. In case of emergency they can be fed for a day or two with the green matter from the crops but after that they will need to be culled. This green matter also serves as a valuable supplimentary food source for the animals. 60 to 80 goats and 12 to 14 cattle. Main benefit is dairy, up to 120 liters of milk per day(for 3-9 months of the year depending on climate).

Requirements
- Potassium, sulphur and to a lesser extent nitrogen
- Equipment suitable for TL4-8 farming
- Food preservation

Produces
- cheese and dairy
- range of vegetables
- sufficient surplus to maintain specialists/scavengers

Cuisine
- Best, steak with baked potatoes, blue cheese, garden vegetables and butter.
- Typical, potatoes, eggs and garden vegetables
- Desperation, dried beans and worms


*dynanmic sounding corporate name

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Hey (E), I was browsing through some survival sites looking for AtE inspiration and I stumbled across this neat little thing. http://www.thereadystore.com/seedsafetm-bundle

Thoughts on the seed selection or the package in general?

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

All the IP address' I can use to easily browse to the site are blocked.
NZ must be listed as a dangerous foreign power ;)

Edit
Lifespan of the seeds might be an issue, lifespan would be 5 years ish for most seeds depending on many variables. There is a commercial seed industry in NZ that supplies Europe so the seed is as fresh as possible. Seeds that suit the location and climate that they are to be planted in are better than a general range. Non hybrids are good if you want your own seed. A living garden is probably the best thing to have, even a small one. You get fresh seeds and skills that way.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Bit of a tangent but this will make it easier for anyone who is interested to make some broad calculations regarding livestock. I may also refer to it as it makes descriptions easier (faster)

Anyone interested in throwing out ideas regarding the social structures that may develop in these communities? Feel free not my area of expertise.

Measuring livestock
Stock units are the old standard for measuring the amount of animals a pasture system can maintain. Selected and simplified for gaming use.
- 1 lactating ewe equals 1 stock unit.
- other sheep and goats average 0.75 stock units
- Beef cattle average 5 stock units
- Lactating dairy cattle 6-9 stock units
- Deer 1.9 stock units
- Goats 0.8 stock units

Land quality
TL 7 - 8
- Poor fertility hard hill country 2-6 stock units per hectare
- Cold poor fertility hard hill country 1-3 stock units a hectare
- high fertility flat with irrigation 14+ stock units a hectare.
- guesstimate of a managed pasture in AtE with stock and crop rotation 6 stock units per hectare on goodish country.

Medicine and genetics cover
- stock losses, potentially large in warm wet climates
- condition and speed of weight gain.
- reproduction percentages.
- other yields, milk wool etc.

Edit
This is with a "farm" system not a "ranch" system. Reducing the size of the paddocks and increasing the frequency of the stock shifts can improve production by 50% in temperate conditions as tougher (slower growing and harder to digest) grasses become less dominant. This process takes more than a year though but improvements can be seen in as soon as the first hard grazing is recovered from.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Hey (E), can you do something aimed at "And then all the bees died" type of ATE agriculture? Like what plants would survive a beepocalypse, what could be encouraged to survive on other pollinators, what other pollinators there are, etc?

Or is this too large of topic for a forum post?

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

It's a fairly big topic. Give me some more detail on the End you have in mind and I'll have a shot at it.

First thoughts, crop rotation relies on legumes which rely on bees (solitary, bumble or honey). This knocks low tech farming a bit

Crop type legumes can be pollinated by hand, pasture legumes less so.

The more modern the system the better it can handle the loss of bees.

Fruit trees would get smaller for hand pollination.

Wild and feral plants take the hit

Staples are not as reliant on bees.

I think the numbers (from memory) are a 25% increase in labour requirements for the crops that can be pollinated by hand.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

No specific end, just some of the stuff you "off the cuff" posted actually.

Like about legumes and hand-pollinating (which i didn't know existed).

See? Like this. Everything I read (granted I never researched deeper than the newspapers that occasionally cried doom about it) "the coming beepocalyspe*" is that most plants wouldn't make it and everything would die... which always sounded a bit far-fetched to me.




* Which I haven't seen in print in almost a decade now, but it was pretty "OH NOES" there for awhile.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

This is interesting, and very different from how it's done, around here.

Here, the basic unit of livestock is the "cattle unit" or "animal unit" and that's equivalent to a beef cow (not a dairy cow). It gets used to measure how much feed or acreage is needed to support livestock of all sorts. The other one mostly used is "conversion ratio" -- how much feed it takes to create meat for the market, on an animal that weighs about a half-ton (455 kg, or so).

I know a pig is about a quarter of an animal unit, and sheep are about a fifth. A horse is a bit more, IIRC.

Interestingly, it takes about 1.25 acres per month per AU in the rich grazing areas of the Midwest, the Old South, or the Pacific Northwest (The Willamette Valley can graze 10 months of the year). Here in Colorado, on the semi-arid short-grass prairie, it can take five times that. It's only economical because we have so much empty land, here, that's so cheap.

Ranches are huge, in the Rocky Mountain West, because they have to be, really. The only good grazing is found in the piedmont areas, close to the mountains, where there's a fair amount of water.

(More than 80 percent of all the water used in the Rocky Mountain West goes to irrigate agriculture or water livestock. Municipal water supplies use about 3-5 percent, depending on state. The rest gets taken for ecological preservation or other uses.)

If I remember right, a beef steer from a good breed converts fodder to weight at about 8:1. Smaller animals do it more efficiently, and pigs and goats can live on scraps. Poultry is the most efficient, I think, although I don't know about fish.

(Man, I learned a lot about this stuff, when I worked out at the Fort Morgan Times -- and I wasn't even the Farm Editor. Although, I did do a special section on the Morgan County Fair, every year, and that meant I talked to the 4-H people and the extension agents and the high school agriculture economics teachers, a lot.)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

It's a bit of change in orientation between the two systems, one seems based off "I have some land, what will you pay for it?" And the other is "I have some animals, what do you want for grazing them"

The closest equivalent around here would be dry matter per hectare calculations though they are starting to be superseded by various metabolic calculations.

Every country has their own way of calculating things, I had a look at the American system when the Oregon rancher thing was going on out of curiosity about how subsidized or not the system was and then got looking at the Australian system, Canadian, Argentinian. . . .

The other big calculations are how fast animals gain weight. For beef a good grass system might produce a kg per day weight gain. A good feed lot might do 5 times that. Anyway it is far to easy to digress.

When calculating the feed conversion of meat animals the other major factor to include is carcass yield (call it 50% for game terms, but generally higher in non Ruminant animals). From memory the calculation for pork I ended up with for Grey Island was 400kgs of food to produce a 70kg carcass.

You did remind me that I have to be more specific in some of these posts though. That said my eyeball of the numbers seemed to fit.

Next example is taking a while, I'm trying to figure out a bit more detail for a homestead and some chemistry to go with it.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Portland Quarry

A reasonably defensible location of about 50 hectares. Already partially concealed to avoid environmental complaints.

Resources
- Limestone quarry, heavy machinery, fuel reserve, workshop, sheds
- Concrete factory, has most of the amenities of a small town including, workshops, sheds, large stocks of coal, concrete, aggregates, wood chip.
- Transport hub (road, water, rail)
- Dry stock farm, sufficient hay and feed to supply 1000 stock units for a year. 25 tonnes of urea fertilizer.
- Forestry, small pine semi failed crop due to failure to get sufficient depth for roots.
- Fresh water spring, falling a height of 30m
- Landfill, compost, methane plant
- Woodchip plant.

Assumptions
- TL8-9 End
- The type of End means no feral populations of farm animals.
- Maybe a zombie End
- Climate not too hostile
- Two generations after the End

Notes
The original fuel and explosive supplies where used to improve the locations fortifications and to create the start of the gardens. Having quarry sized machinery helped, aside from building the defenses they moved enough high quality earth/compost for 5000 m2 of gardens and 50,000 m2 of paddocks, one weeks work 8 hours a day 2 trucks and a loader. Additional wood chip was moved as well.
- The sparse soil is extremely alkaline and poor soil structure makes drought a hazard
- Two hills, each with a good view of the other helps with the defenses.
- Terraced terrain with bunds above the rock faces.
- A covered conveyor belt runs from the rock crusher at the quarry to the cement works.
- AtE while lacking in some high tech infrastructure only has to maintain a small population so large stockpiles can last a long time.
- The nitrogen would be kept in reserve for droughts and explosive manufacturing.
- Nitrogen specifically improves plant growth rates so it can be applied during dry weather so when it does rain plants grow fast enough to take full benefit.
- With low soil depth droughts may be an issue depending on the exact climate.
- This combination of resources exists, lookup Portland in NZ for confirmation or a map/satellite image. Here
- Potassium would be relatively common in the local marine sediment (presumption)
- Phosphorus is sourced from animal bones (possibly in great supply depending on end) or from fish.
- Additional Nitrogen is reserved for droughts and there is a stockpile.
- Other trace elements for plant life are assumed to be present in sufficient quantities in the organic matter brought in.
- No hardwood inside the quarry perimeter so smoked food would require a trip out to get hardwoods.
- Insufficient soil depth for productive fruit trees unless there was a specific requirement.
- Only the quarry itself is included in the defenses.

Description
The view from the old highway doesn't give much away, you have to negotiate several hundred meters of gorse and blackberry before you get a hint that there is a community on the hill. Getting to the entrance is the next challenge, exposed cliffs of limestone confront you almost the whole way around. A narrow ledge of rock leads to a deep ditch, the locals lower the steel drawbridge to let you in. You still have to walk along a narrow cut between two tall limestone faces before turning a corner and encountering another gate. The area you enter is a man made hollow surrounded by high cliffs. Browning pasture is dotted with animals and on the inner edges of the two hills you can make out gardens, greenhouses and buildings on the white edged ledges.

Building up soil/growing medium
In this instance there is a bare surface start and a growing medium needs to be introduced to the limestone base. When fuel was available soil, compost and wood chip was moved in. Also used to build up the soil was housing cattle in a feed pad at least some of the time. This broke up the surface and introduced manure and plant matter to the limestone. Pine wood chip is slightly acidic when fresh so this will help, Pampas can used as poor compost and it is available. The other thing is gypsum which is used in concrete manufacturing contains sulfur and to extract this sulfur you need heat, a sealed container and CO2. Sulfur is the main nutrient introduced to soil to make it more acid, i.e counteract the lime. This makes the location a lot more viable.

Gardens
- Trench greenhouses, these serve to extend the growing season. In colder climates they would be more prevalent.
- Parsnips, Beans, Cabbages, (including red cabbage as it can be used in place of litmus paper), Garlic are common vegetables as the are better suited to alkaline soils.
- The original half hectare of good soil imported into the quarry would be the location of cereal crops. Used in a multiple animal, multiple crop rotation. Plants that cannot tolerate the alkaline soil of the rest of the quarry would be planted here. Potatoes, "seed maintenance" crops, high yielding garden varieties. After 40 years the productive area has doubled to one hectare of high productive soil. A similar area of gardens is less productive.
- A few high yielding fruit trees, enough for alcohol production or other specific or perceived needs. Apples, plums, grapes, citrus, peaches.
- Mushrooms are certainly possible but not included in this particular write up.

Herb and utility garden
Combinations of well drained and carefully built up soils. Plants include myrtle, rosemary, olives, hemp, marijuana, poppies, willow, prickly pear, black sage, yaka, garlic, bamboo.

Crops
Barley, less than a hectare, one crop a year, maybe a tonne.
Fodder, turnip, kale, plantain, clover.

Livestock
Grazing system
Pampas grass while poor quality feed can sustain cattle, it can grow on almost straight limestone. This plus the hay was the start of the system. Over time the soil quality has improved through animal action, management and chemistry.
Lower quality grazing, very well subdivided (50% improvement in stocking rate)
45 hectares equals about 40 sheep and 12 cattle as well as geese and turkeys. To reduce inbreeding there are large numbers of bulls and rams retained reducing reproduction percentages. 4 cattle and 40 sheep are slaughtered for food per annum. Using two grazing species of animals allows stock rotation reducing parasites and improving pasture utilization. Turkeys are useful for reducing insect pests and parasites. Geese act as an additional security measure. A more optimistic stocking rate could be 50% higher after 40 years of work.

Other livestock
Pigs, 3 tonnes of pork, primarily for food storage
Chickens,
Ducks,

Population
Up to 80-90 people.

Skills present
Explosives
Chemistry
Engineering
Farming
Animal handling

Requirements/wants
- Fuels
- Cereals
- Nitrogen
- Plastics
- Glass
- Containers


Produces
- Dairy, meat, vegetables, some cereal, wool, leather.
- Sulfur, sulfuric acid, plaster of paris, quicklime, nitric acid, potassium hydroxide.
- Alcohol, ether, vinegar, soap, paper, ink
- Hydroelectric power, caustic soda
- Aspirin
- Electricity from methane (depending on duration of landfill)
- Coal gas, coal derivatives, (Lignite coal base)
- Explosives, fuel nitrate, black powder, gun cotton, basic rocket fuel, chemical and electric detonators.
- Worked metal
- Antiseptics, insect repellent, head ache remedy, degreaser, antibacterials, sun screen
- Refined nitrates, methanol
- Cast Aluminium

Yet to be written
- Smaller homestead
- Depopulated world
- Under the trees again
- More Bee-pocalypse
- Rebuilding from feral stock
- Just after the End
- Peasant farming with whats left

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

It has a moat of amenities? now that I've got to see!





The funny thing is the first time I read it I was skimming so it kinda blurred by and kinda stuck in and made 'sense'. It was only on my slower second read through that it struck me as odd...

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Cabinet farms aka “Farm seed”

Purpose
To provide a small amount of fresh food, occupational therapy and a means of maintaining seed viability. Not designed for perpetual use the Cabinet Farm incorporates stockpiles of key consumables.

Basic set-up
A large cabinet with multiple deep adjustable shelves (approximately 4 meters long, floor to ceiling), each shelf is (from bottom to top) made up from;
- A hydroponic (or soil) layer
- A gap for the plant to grow
- A LED light tuned to the specific wavelengths of light required for the plants within.
- A mushroom growing chamber on top of the light to utilise the waste heat
- A worm farm also acting as an insulation layer

Incorporated in the structure is clear tubing providing a growing environment for Spirulina. All internal surfaces are reflective to improve energy efficiency. Fans are used for airflow and temperature control.

As well a “Climate” control system there is also, seed storage space, sterilization equipment, tools, testing equipment, spare parts, nutrient supplies, various other gardening chemicals and a big book of instructions. Optional components include a composting toilet, brine shrimp tank, fish farm, water condenser, seed freezer (for the seeds that can tolerate it).

There are three types of plantings in the cabinet, seed maintenance, system support and food. The seed maintenance plants are grown on adjustable shelves and the selection is grown cyclically (about 40 species of non-hybrid garden/crop varieties), this also provides a small amount of fresh food and material for the worms and mushrooms.
The system support plants are more specific varieties, For example a cereal is grown to be fed to yeast that are fed to brine shrimp that is combined with worms and spirulina and fed to the fish. Other system support plants are used to “rebalance” the system to extend its lifespan or provide a good growing medium for the fungi.
Most of the food plants are selected for vitamin content, growth rate, light efficiency, yield and height rather than any other consideration so flavor can be an issue. For a single person the yield will be around 33-66 kgs of food per year, if supplementing a larger group variety is less of an issue and 1000kgs is possible (lettuce).

If the right species of fish are present their waste is rich in nitrates and can act as a fertilizer for the plants.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Catfish are a very popular suggestion for this. They taste fine, are vegetarians and can be fed a simple diet of grain and soybeans, and aren't terribly delicate. They need a fairly warm climate though, so that restricts your options.

Carp might be another option; they don't like an entirely herbivorous diet, but they can eat it.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The system does produce worms and brine shrimp for fish to eat, I didn't think the scale of the planting would be sufficient for a large operation though so I left the output blank. I also have no experience farming fish beyond fattening caught fish / kura(NZ fresh water crayfish) in tanks. So I left the detail light.

One of the thoughts I had when writing the post was it would serve as a plausible explanation for an AtE farm starting point.

Still more stuff to write up, but feel free to add more suggestions. The more detail the easier it is to work out.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

From what I've been reading, domestic carp are sort of the fish version of pigs as far as diet - they can be fed a lot of the bits and bobs and trimmings left over from human food, and that may not be 100%, but it'll help a lot in the keeping. You'd have to produce a lot of brine shrimp and worms to use that as a primary food source for a significant amount of fish, and it will definitely impact the taste of the flesh. Herbivorous diets are simpler.

A problem that traditional farmers mostly didn't have to consider, also, is that the higher up the food chain you eat, the more concentrated toxins, heavy metals, radioactive particles, nanites, and so forth will be in the flesh. That's of course where the mercury problem in fish comes from - we like to eat predator fish.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

The space alone means that this particular system will never have a significant population of animals. In theory there is just going to be a maintenance population that can be expanded at a later date when conditions change.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

A place to call home

a look at the process rather than the outcomes.

Assumptions and resources
- Chosen location.
- Farming skill involved
- Trees can grow
- There is a need for a defensive location
- Mature forest containing some hardwood
- TL 8 and a bit
- Group has a salvager, metal worker and a chemist

Start point
A defensible location with water and some clean soil is found. One smaller part is highly defensible. It is hard to find and no existing infrastructure exists. It's main value is it's potential.

Step one
You have found some land and you want to put a farm on it. So what do you do first? You file paper work regarding land ownership and check legal rights.

1) Put a marker up on the entrance
2) Kill all the nasties in the area, have a good look around.
3) Write it in diary.

Step two
Clearing the land; trees, rocks and other obstacles.
Options, Fire and explosives, hard work and time, machinery, draft animals or combination there of.

Fortunately one of the recent battles was against a Bossgoon with an electric chainsaw. Some salvaging skills and a thorough search yield solar panels, a charger, spare chain and chainsaw file. This and some hand saws made from scavenged heavy sheet and light plate metal are used to fell and process the local trees. Other required tools that are made and salvaged include chains, various clasps and hooks, pulleys, timber jacks, axes, spades, shovels and rudimentary wood working tools. A wheel barrow would be good too.

As the appearance of the wood is less of an issue the trees are left with the greenery intact for several weeks after felling, this extracts a huge amount of moisture from the wood (making it lighter) but stains the timber. The trees are then limbed and rolled to the pit for sawing. The timber is then stacked to dry properly. Much of this stage depends on climate and species.
The chemist makes some black powder to clear the larger stumps and rocks. The rest of the stumps will be left until the soil dries and the stumps come out easier. This will be done with an A frame and a pulley attacked to a lot of muscle (A horse for example)
The wood is used to build a basic A frame shelter and a seasoning rack for the rest of the timber.
A surface garden in started with a bed of the smaller branches, dirt and leaf litter. This garden is walled with rocks or timber. Basic animal pens are built from narrow trunks and split timber.
Building a cooking fire, water storage and the kiln for the chemist. A forge is also built as the files are getting tired and new ones are critical. Furniture and fixtures are added to the camp and shelter.

Step two, challenges
Remaining fed while working hard, hunting scavenging supplies. (Survival, supplies)
Felling trees in the right direction. (IQ, Per, professional skill)
Building a basic pit for sawing timber, a structure and a second better pit. (Architecture)
Injury recovery will reduce manpower considerably (First aid, physician etc)
Drainage is likely to be awful so wet under foot. (Ht, mitigated by some professional skills)
Finding seeds and plants to start with. (Adventure)
Building with wood. (Carpentry)
Organizing and making the best of the resources (Housekeeping)

Step two questions
Do you have to prepare for winter? (Yes as this adds a deadline)
Are there other issues relating to the End? (Yes mumble mumble)
Is the area safe? (No, go have an adventure and deal with it)

Step two, yields.
- Old growth timber 900* m3 per hectare hardwood. None seasoned yet.
- A structure, a future shed but currently a residence.
- Half a hectare of cleared land, riddled with stumps.
- Lots of firewood
- A raised bed garden
- Kiln
- Water storage
- Cooking fire/smoking fire to help preserve food

Wants
- Containers
- Food especially long lasting
- Plants that would benefit from a long preparation, old stock fruit trees, grasses that will take a while to establish etc.

Does anyone want this stage by stage example continued? or something different for that matter?

Edit
Is this too nice? Should a toxic element be added?

Edit 2
*This number is very generous, but possible with an existing stand of trees getting flattened in the end. This has the replacement trees all growing at the same time meaning they produce better timber than other wise. 850m3 can be achieved with pinus radiata in 28 years

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I really like what you're doing here. I have a player who wants to do this sort of thing; develop, defend, grow. My preparations were for more of a wandering nomad (ok, murder-hobo) playstyle, so this is turning out to be invaluable.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Nah. Not every place will suck. There's bound to be a few spots, here and there, where people got their acts together, pretty quickly, had decent resources available, and made smart choices about how to use them.

Of course, in AtE's setting, those communities will be called "havens" or "oases" by many, and "targets" by bandits.

One of the best things any GM can do, in any game, is to give the PCs something worth fighting to defend.

Speaking of which (and here's a cool idea), how would you write up the petroleum station, in The Road Warrior?

Wells for oil and (especially) natural gas produce water as a byproduct, just because it gets pumped out the same as everything else. Usually, it winds up dumped in a retaining pond or (if clean enough -- and sometimes not) discharged into a local stream. Carefully husbanded, that could form the basis for a small community of no more than about three dozen people, which is what we see, there.

It's got at least a couple of camels, as well as pigs and a few chickens. The camels can probably graze on the scrub, and the pigs and chickens can eat scraps. I don't see greenhouses, but I'm not sure they'd need them. What would they grow, there? Grains and vegetables?

They'd definitely exist on the ragged edge, that's for sure, which makes their situation during the siege by Humungus so very desperate.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

A place to call home, winter

Assumptions and resources
Mixture of limestone and clay in the area. (Limestone or other porous rock makes a good justification for a clean water spring)

Stage 1, acquire plants and animals
Over the last few months the group has collected a number of edible weeds and wild plants including onion weed, lambs quarters, dandelion, watercress, plantain and wild carrot.(the exact list will vary based on location, some names vary too.) A poplar has also been coppiced for later use as poles for planting.

A wild bull was a mixed blessing as it resulted in a broken leg and 440lbs of beef. The metal worker and the chemist stay behind as a result when the rest of the group go looking for seeds. They fish and gather food for winter. The metal worker spends some time maintaining gear and making nails, building materials etc.

Preserving the meat
Dealing with surpluses is a big part of both survival and farming.

They use all the available containers to make potted beef until they run out of fat and containers.

A perpetual stew can be used to make the meat last as well but the group lacks a large cooking vessel.

Some of the meat is smoked, but caution means they are prefer not to have large plumes of smoke rising into the clear autumn sky. Cold smoking requires a means to cool the smoke. Hardwood is required not softwood.

A small portion of the meat is dried but the group is not entirely successful.

An absence of salt rules out salt curing or pickling the beef.

With a cool place to hang a carcass, some meat can last several weeks, especially if other techniques are used help. Bleeding the joints for example.

Canning is an option as the chemist can make a wax. However suitable containers are in short supply.

Other preservation methods exist, lye and jelly can also be used as can fermenting, jugging and storing in oil. Some foods are not suited to all preservation methods though. Numerous species of plants can be used to repel insects as well.

Seed hunting
The group travels to a ruined town to see if they can find seeds and plants.
After 40 years there is only a slim chance any packaged seeds are still fecund. Feral crops are likely to either heirloom varieties or decendants of hybrids. Some species do not reproduce without human intervention, corn being the notable example.
After a dramatic encounter or two the group are chased into the only remaining fenced off area in the town, the playcenter (kindergarten). Here they find several packets of seed in draws and a selection of carpentry equipment, including egg beater drills, clear plastic sheets. (These things are present at my daughter's playcenter) all the plants in the garden are also non-toxic. Feral plants in the garden include tomatoes and spinach (hybrid decendants). Also found are shallots and squash. A handful of apples, lemons and peaches are also discovered. The apples can be used to grow root stock for later grafting to hopefully increase the yield.

One surprising find is a child's clockwork laptop/document reader in working condition with an encyclopedia memory card (feel free to substitute a full sized encyclopedia set)

Note. No staple food (except possibly the lambs quarters) has been introduced yet. If a more rapid build up is desired add a staple crop like potatoes, amaranth or taro (all can do well in the wild).

Projects, current and planned
- Build a smoke house or make a smoker.
- Dig a cool room out of the nearby limestone slope.
- Build an evaporation refrigerator.
- Build a frame to lift/work on a carcass.
- Some climates might suit an ice house

Wants
- Get better cookware
- Improve workshop.
- Batteries and power.
- Garden supplies.
- Gearbox for turning the chainsaw into a winch.
- Wire
- hoses/pipe and fittings for moving water

Questions
- Is the group followed home? (Yes, an exiting chase ensues as the members of a group narrowly fail to stop a Militia scout from reporting to his lieutenant, after the desperate battle the group discovers some useful bomb making supplies including Urea)
- Do the defenses need work? (GM's judgement, perhaps only camouflage)
- What are the neighbors like?
- Are there any means of making transport easier? (e.g A navigable river runs near by)
- Is there any infrastructure specific to the location (e.g. A crane could be used to make transporting goods to the farm easier)

Challenges
- cabin fever (leadership, will, psychology )
- identify plants (Survival, farming, botany, gardening, naturalist)
- butchering meat (animal handling(cattle), survival)
- preserving meat (cooking, survival, housekeeping <TL7)
- maintain secrecy (Camouflage, tracking)
- Further work on camp (Carpentry)
- plan defenses (? architecture, strategy?, tactics?)

Bonuses
- Use of prospecting will reveal small amounts of coal.

work in progress

The refinery is coming. I am wondering if I have to rewatch the movie first though

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I'm not sure you do. I looked at the clips from the film that showed the inside of the compound, and wrote down what I saw, in there. George Miller definitely didn't give much thought about survival needs, and everybody is clear that they only meant to remain long enough to refine the fuel they needed to reach the Northern Territory (or at least, "to the North"). There was one scene, in the garage, which showed a bunch of bags stacked against a wall, but that looked like concrete more than oats, or anything.

That said, it's a great film and any possible excuse to see it, again, is a good one. :)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

What tshiggins said. there is no real indication of "What Do They Eat?" because that wasn't even a consideration for the film.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

I was thinking the farm was very well concealed. ;)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Broken Hill

Assumptions
- Very poor soil, deficient in phosphorous.
- No water retention.
- Difficult to fully clean the water.
- Population 30-40

Resources
- Power
- fuel
- Refinery
- water (dirty)

Notes
Arenosol soil is the soil type found in the area of the outback known as Broken Hill it is generally considered too nutritionally poor for any agricultural purposes. It is rapidly depleted of nutritional value by “hungry” food crops. The soil also has a low ability to hold water and irrigation is less efficient here than elsewhere.
Aside from filtering through the local soil, continual water purification uses resources that broken hill can not replace.

Crops
A variation of the colder climates greenhouse trenches is used to meet the needs of broken hill's community. A trench Shade house is used instead. The use of porous material to cover the plants reduces the water requirements and reduces the amount of sunlight they receive. A variation of the the three sisters system is used in rotation with oats then garden vegetables. The three sisters mix is used just prior to the fallow period and the leftover organic matter is composted into the soil in an attempt to improve water retention. These shade house trenches are colored to match the surrounding dessert and are only accessible by tunnel. Prickly pear has a potentially useful degreasing property that might be used to improve the performance of different water filters.

Livestock
Pigs and chickens. These animals are used to turn wasted and surplus food into protein for later consumption. Under ideal conditions the pigs will manage a 10-20% return. Pigs do best with very clean water (Similar tastes to a human child, Cola is their drink of choice).

Camels graze the scrubby surrounds and are brought in by vehicular round-up. While dairy is possible they are used for meat.

Produces
- Fuel

Requires
- Food
- Fertilizer, phosphorus and nitrogen particularly.
- Water purification components, wool and hair can be used.

Crunch
With soil conditions like those in the real Broken Hill the yields of the crops would be quite low. With three crops a year they would require twelve hectares in crops. This is too much space so lets assume that the refinery had something in its past that allowed it to improve a small portion of the space they use for crops. One hectare of good soil would produce eight times as much food. People are desperate though so lets say there is only two hectares in production and add potatoes into the mix and twenty four people (ish) could be supported.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Nicely done, sir!

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Feral livestock
Three main outcomes are possible for feral animals. The population explodes, the animals die out or the least likely option is they fill a niche in the local ecosystem. Secondary production (wool, milk, eggs etc) will reduce dramatically in feral genetics. A recent period when feral animal populations had a chance to flourish was during WW2.

Cattle
Feral cattle would be decendants of modern beef and dairy breeds. Historically there are examples of small isolated populations (10-30 animals) remaining viable for more than 80 years. They seem to prefer light forest and scrub as it provides some cover. Pure dairy genetics would have the least chance of survival for various reproduction related issues. One feature with feral cattle is that they hide surprising well. The biggest cattle could be slightly larger than listed in basic. Mustering feral cattle for sale to the meat industry is a practice that exists today.

Pigs
Feral pigs can experience massive population growth rates. An excellent sense of smell makes them likely survivors. They are difficult to trap and good at getting through barriers. Easily domesticated if caught young. Higher fat production in feral genetics when domesticated.

Sheep
There are several recessive genetic traits in sheep that become more common when the population isn't managed. Feral sheep will stop being white after not too many generations. Molting breeds may dominate the genetics in cases with multiple breeds.

Goats
Generally feral goats do quite well. They can be domesticated but ex-feral animals require good fencing. Browsers not grazers.

Other animals
- Chickens, mainly heritage breeds
- Ducks, may interbreed with wild populations.
- Deer

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

A place to call home, hungry season

Summary
The end of winter through the start of spring is known in some places as the hungry season as this is when food supplies are at the shortest. It is also a busy time of year when crops are being planted. The group has to plant the seeds they have gathered.

Notes
- most of the seed the group has will be used to create more seed rather than feed them.
- hybrids are the byproduct of two different breeds of the same species, they exhibit something called "hybrid vigor". The following generations are more of a genetic lottery. There are many differing opinions on how bad these post hybridization genetics are especially in plants, for the sake of gaming five or six generations of selective breeding will result in a stable breed.
- best guess is that re-bred hybrid varieties will get to 75% of the first generations yield. This is after a few (plant) generations of selective breeding.
- various issues to do with the timing of crops that I am ignoring as many are location and End specific.

Stage 1, germinate seed.
The four types of seed the group has are local weeds, stored pre-End seed, feral heirloom seed and seed from hybrid descendants. The group will be taking the utmost care to get these plants to grow.

Stage 2
The germinated seed will be planted out into the raised garden after it has had a light dose of urea to encourage early plant growth. Blood and bone fertilizer may have been made from the feral bull.

Projects
- fencing the area where crops are going to be grown.
- An electric fence will take 22lbs of wire per strand used to get around the perimeter of the cleared ground. Car parts, a battery, improvised insulators and a solar panel will complete the requirements.
- alternatively split timber (as apposed to cut timber) will suffice.
- Build a germination tray/ shelter for seedlings. Clear plastic or glass will help.
- preparing the ground for planting, only a small amount of seed exists to the group so this is a small task.
- Clear another 5 hectares of trees.

Yields (if successful)
- a small garden with, shallots and squash, the squash would be planted above last year's long drop toilet.
- a garden with tomatoes and spinach with variable results in the first year, improving with each successive year.
- whatever seed manages to germinate from the old packets. For the sake of the example, a few beans, some radishes and a north Atlantic pumpkin. The group will be able to eat none of these in the first year as they will be saving the seed. (The pumpkin is a fodder variety good for cows and pigs). Aside from the pumpkin they are all hybrid varieties.
- if lucky the group (6) will produce close to 5% of their food needs. Double that when their seed production is stabilized.
- Numerous poplar poles are planted as a buffer against polluted run off. Poplars as well as a number of other species have the ability to absorb some pollutants. The process is called phytoremediation, it is also used in bacterial filtration for heavy metals. Some aspects are covered in Pyramid 3-90
- The fruit trees will be ready to plant at a year old.

Wants
- More seed, staple crops especially
- Power and power tools will make things a lot easier
- A caretaker,

Questions
- Will the food stores last? (No, go hunt something dangerous)
- Can the group expand the current production so that it is fully self sufficient? (No, A big journey is required to find better crops to plant)
- Is that barge that washed up on the riverbank water tight? (yes, but it is occupied)

Challenges
- germinating seed (farming, gardening, botany)
- preparing the soil (gardening, farming)
- getting the timing right, plant too soon and a late frost can wipe out the crops. (Farming, meteorology, ground thermometer)
- building fence ( farming, carpentry, architecture)
- Build a stump puller (engineer, machinist)
- Find sources for fertilizer elements (geology and farming to know what to get)

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

A place to call home, decisions

Having a source of soil enriching minerals available (potassium, phosphorus and sulfur) will mean the efficiency of food production is higher allowing more time and energy to be spent on defenses, developments and adventuring. Potassium and phosphorus rich earth could feasibly be found locally while sulfur is more likely to be found in volcanic areas. Sulfur has enough industrial uses for stockpiles to exist.

At this point the group has two main options regarding the development of the proto-farm. The first is the slower approach where the farm remains more of a support camp. The main drawback is that to get close to self sufficient a large area will have to he cleared and more time will be required to produce food. The second option is to actively seek out a staple crop (potatoes, maize, grains) and livestock and improve the efficiency.

Option one would seem to head in the direction of a hidden hide away/foraging camp that won't quite support those who live there. It would potentially be a good wintering ground depending on the style of game. (It would likely support one person per hectare of cleared land.)

Option two looks to have more opportunity for a defend and develop game so that's the option I am going to explore.

With this in mind the group will need to acquire a few things to get the future farm started. A main crop is the highest thing on the list when survival is at stake. The length of the list is based on how much they can carry.
So the group goes off and has an epic adventure and comes back with their barge(or truck) laden with loot.

The Haul

The group had managed to get hold of potatoes, maize, beans, chickpeas and turnips. These are epic treasures AtE.

The also have the start of a Herb garden, flax, hemp, grass seed and some seedlings for more trees.

Equipment wise they have gotten hold of a generator, some more solar panels, a gantry, a large winch, and numerous electric motors and tools.

Raw materials are also included in their haul. Depending on the style of game an NPC or two might be added to the group to manage the farm while the rest of the party are out and about. These NPC's could also be a precursor of later expansion.

Why these things?
Having high yielding food crops means there are surpluses of not just food but time, space and labour. There are nitrogen fixers in the mix, beans and chickpeas. Having these is the basis of a crop rotation, which will be critical for maintaining the soil long term in term of nutrients and parasite/blight management. Turnips are included for an additional rotation slot, they are also an ideal fodder crop for sheep, cows, chickens (cooked first) and pigs. Hemp and flax are going to the main sources of fiber for clothing and rope/string and even paper.

The herb garden serves as a source for numerous useful plants it can feasibly supply; insect repellents, pain killers, antiseptics, flavourings, inks, weapons and even base chemicals.

The equipment is selected for labour saving reasons, a centrally located winch can be used for moving all the trees and rocks once they have been felled, modified slightly it can be used to pull stumps. Making a rototiller will be a huge labour saver too. On a larger scale disc harrows, disc plows, plows and a variety of other tillage machinery will be desired. The soil will ideally broken up once deeply to improve drainage then broken up further (at this stage lime/sulfur, compost or gypsum might be added to condition the soil) and one final pass will be made to prepare the seed bed. This is a lot of work, especially when breaking in new ground.

Tasks
If it is early enough in the year the the group will plant the crops in the space they have available. Seed goes off, so it is best used sooner rather than later. They will want to clear a hectare of trees to start the crop rotation and an addition hectare a year until they have five and a half hectare clear. This assumes that there will be some livestock in the future.

Timber may be stock piled until the group has time to build a sawmill or a portable mill. The logs may also be used to make a palisade.

Potatoes would most likely serve as a main crop due to yield, 2 tonnes of seed potatoes are required for each hectare planted, The yields are up to the GM at the end of the day, with excellent inputs and climate and low parasites/viruses etc 60-80 tonnes per hectare are possible (In theory). At TL 5 13 tonnes in new ground is possible. 20 tonnes seems reasonable with low inputs and regular rotation.

Garden plants would follow the potatoes, then possibly three sisters plantings or a crop of maize then a bean crop depending on variety. It would then be grazed off by ruminant animals and given a full fallow year before being used as part of the grazing system. This system when fully operational uses 5.5 hectares of land (20 acres ish) and produces enough food for 30 people, in other words the initial group of 6 plus a family for each of them. This system would include livestock.

It will take several years for the groups farm to upscale to this size, 20kgs of potatoes would take three crops with nothing being eaten to produce enough seed potatoes for a hectare. Production wise 3 tonnes per hectare seems reasonable for cereals, beans 4 tonnes maybe.

Any suggestions, questions or ideas about the group's farm?
If not, animals and fodder crops will be in the next section.

System components
- Main crop, potatoes
- Cereal crop, maize
- Vegetable garden
- Nitrogen fixer; beans, chickpeas
- Grazing crop, grass
- Fodder crops, turnips, pumpkin
- Support crops, Hemp, flax
- Orchards

Sorry if these posts get a bit off track, it is a very broad subject.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Thanks for keeping this "how stuff works" going! Writing a long series of posts like this is not easy.

Re: [ATE] Farming example
 

Agreed. I've been copypasting them into a worddoc and saving them.

Just in case PK happens to another thread! ;)