[4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

So Im playing with a group in forgotten realms and I made a character, a witch called Nadya.
The character is a joy to play and the personality is nice, shes the kind, calm and non-violent mage who uses her intellect to get around problems and is acting as a healer for the group.
Ive run into a problem in that my GM makes the game combat heavy (Nothing wrong per say, but playing a somewhat non-violent character...) and Im not sure what to do there.

Now plan was when I made her to have her be more dangerous asleep than awake: Shed have a powerful possession ability she could use when she slept. However GM changed his mind as to the pricing- which happens but I kept the narcolepsy and used the spare points on IQ. She can enter and manipulate peoples dreams which makes for an incredibly powerful ability.
However as the game is combat heavy I kinda feel like Nadya aside from her healing and the occasional haste spell is hard to find a way to develop.
I feel that not killing people is more her way and looked into weaponizing the flesh to stone spell. But its too expensive even with a 10 FP powerstone.
I'm considering the following "Builds:"

Essentially the classic mage that can also fight although not very good and lacking the capability of the specialized fighter to dish out pain. Also buying physical combat skills while she is below HT 14 is of questionable use.
She still feels kinda useless in combat, even with this...

Here is where it gets hairy:

As she has quite a fascination with her long hair using it in game as a multitude of tentacles could be amusing and actually efficient: It can with its range deliver healing spells to nearby comrades and entangle badguys.
Combined with shadow magic it can make for some pretty horror movie-ish effects. But its a very, very big point sink and doesn't work until most of the things have been bought. Nadya bleeding out from having her hair cut would be weird...

My GM really wants me fire balling stuff to oblivion but I dont think that fits my character so far. She doesn't feel like the one to just blow people up with a fireball and she cant hit. Not to mention FP.
Both above still allow me to best opponents without killing them (Though hurting them is entirely another affair but they can be healed...).
I kinda want a non-lethal solution.

Lets look at Nadya:

ST: 10 HP: 10
DX: 10 Wi: 14
IQ: 15 Per: 15
HT: 11 FP: 11

Advantages:
Beautiful (12), Magery 2 (25), Voice (10) Power: Control dreams (10), Power: Enter dreams (6), Ally: Familiar (20)
Deep sleeper (1), Sexy pose (1).

Disadvantages:
Narcolepsy (Refluffed epilepsy) (-30), Sense of duty: Friends and family (-5), Absentminded (-15), Phobia(Cats) (-5), Delusion: "Cats are guardians of the night" (-5), One eye (-15), Susceptible* "All magic" (-30).
Unusual features (purples eyes and pointy ears) (-1), Never cuts her hair (-1), will blabber on about dreaming (-1), Broadminded (-1), Twirls her hair (-1), Likes to sleep (-1).

Skills:
Acting-15, Detecting lies-15, Diplomacy-16, fast-talk-16, sex appeal-12, Merchant-15, Singing-13, Artist(Illusion)-17, Dreaming-17, Thaumatology-13, Housekeeping-15, Auto hypnosis-12, Search-14, first aid-15, Area knowledge Cormyr-15, Survival(woodlands)-15, Diagnosis-15, Intimidate-14, Carousing-12, Lock picking-14, Camoflage-15, Brawling-9.

Spells:
Major healing-16, Haste-15, flesh to stone-15, Stone to flesh-15, earth to stone-15, Earth to stone-15, Lend energy-15, Lend vitality-15, Relieve sickness-15, Sound-15, Simple illusion-15, Sense foes-15, Sense danger-15, Minor healing-15, shape earth-15, Complex illusion-15, watchdog-15, inspired creation-14, Illusion disguise-16, Cure disease-16.

*GM made this one up...

So whats a good way to grow her?

Also first post, yippee!

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Going the direct damage route like you're GM wants is rarely the most efficient use for mages in Gurps. Battlefield control and buffing are what they're best at in combat in my experience. Shape earth is a good example. It can provide a thin opaque screen so archers can't see you to shoot at you. Make it thicker and you can raise a wall around you're group except for a small gap to funnel them through. Sure they could try hacking through the dirt but it'll be blind with good cover DR. Or you could try to have it wrap around a group of enemies to keep them contained while others are dealt with.

With illusnary disguises you might be able to more easily scout a place out to know how to deal with them.

And haste is second only to great haste in helping fighters not die as you boost their dodge by 3! The increased move can be quite helpful too. And great haste is awesome in that it gives them an extra turn every turn for ten turns. Which can triple their damage output if they do a double attack followed by a normal attack on their turn.

And if he'll let you have it Bless is probably one of the best spells period as it modifies ALL your rolls by 1 or more in the positive direction, not affecting critical failures. IE. If you're effective skill is 16+ you only (crit) fail on an 18 as a 17 is a normal failure and modified to 16 or less which is a success. And like I said it affects all rolls positively, skills checks, damage, defenses, etc... And it will save the persons life... just read the description and get it if your GM will let you!

And you can try to find creative uses for other spells you may pick up. I recall hearing about a mage who used a "Dye" spell to turn some effectively invisible air elemental pink.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Shape earth is very, very slow. 2 move per turn slow, I could see some applications though. Making a mud wall and freezing it just like Cao Cao did could be really cool but its very circumstantial.
Best use I can find for it is spider holes for the party to hide in, I could see the fun in the angry goblin mob running over the party without ever noticing anything. Combine this with the plant spells book and fun things will happen.

Spells Im planning is: Grace and regenerate. I do like the body of metal / stone but feel the FP price is to steep (Even though delay could make things interesting.) and might is too deadly on the buffed character to be of value. But being able to put grace and haste on party members is a very useful thing.

Another of my big problems is the fatique point cost for stuff. While powerstones are available they are also very expensive (Which is quite reasonable, its professional equipment like a figthers armor and sword.) but they recharge at 1 FP each day. So its not like they are bad, infact they are very good.
But things add up and burn those precious FP, add to that below 3 Nadya will have trouble keeping up.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Also, the reason why the spells which take someone out of the fight immediately like Entombment, Flesh to Stone, and Total Paralysis cost many FP is that they work on anyone and they are better than killing the target (you can always smash the statue/slit their paralyzed throat, but if you kill someone you can't decide to hold them for ransom later).

I second that the direct-damage spells are about as good as a bow and arrows, so rarely a good use of a mage's time in combat. (In a cinematic game, where archery can have Heroic Archer and bows with cinematically good stats, they are worse). On the other hand, they only require one hand, so you can use them without putting down your Staff.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Welcome to the forum(s)! We're a generally friendly (if odd and occasionally strongly opinionated) bunch. Make yourself at home. :)

I don't post very often, often lurking months in silence. You posted a character that caught my attention because she has purple eyes, and I'm somewhat irrationally fond of All Things Purple. For that reason, I'm offering this advice: talk with your GM about what sort of play experience he wants for his campaign and what sort of characters he feels are appropriate for that play experience. From what you've stated so far, it seems the character you've created is problematic. She's not a bad character, mind you; she just seems inappropriate for the campaign in much the same way an omni-competent rugged action hero is not appropriate for a "co-eds in a cabin" slasher flick. I'd hate to think of your character (with her purple eyes) being stuck in narrative limbo (or worse, getting killed) in a combat-heavy campaign, and I'd hate to think of you being frustrated as a player because there's little she can do (and few opportunities for her to do it).

Communication is key. Better to make certain you and your GM (and the other players) are on the same page in the same book up front the easy way than the hard way three weeks or three months or whatever down the road.

Best of luck! I wish you satisfaction in your gaming. :)

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Mental Stun, it's effective, it's cheap, it's only got a few prerequisites, and it fits the theme of a witch messing with peoples minds.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Investing in Recover Energy will do wonders for any mage that doesn't rely on Leech to recharge their FP/ER.

With your current spell list, you have some awesome battlefield control. Move 2 may seem slow on Shape Earth, but, you can drop people into sink holes with it, raise barriers to protect yourself, and give your archers the high ground.

For expanding your spells list, it seems appropriate enough to go from the earth/stone spells into some of the metal ones. Nothing like blunting swords or ruining armor!

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

True that, Im considering drunkeness, foolishnes and daze among others. So yeah they can be very effective.

Yeah, that's one of my problems with this specific spell: How do I sinkhole some sucker, I can say create a hole underneath my enemy but the book says he can simply step away.
Another application I'm thinking of is hollowing out the ground without actually making a hole, so when he steps on this hex he risks falling down a 2 hex deep hole. Not sure how to avoid it, though the example in the base book mentions dx-6 / Acrobatics to avoid falling down the pit (Its only a quick example on page 502.) or erecting a pillar of earth is a good way to stop a charging foe. But then again spending fatigue points just to block a single hex.
Are there any good threads on the shape earth spell? google doesn't give me that much. I'm sure I'm not the first to ask this question.

@the_seeker.
Thanks, truth be told Ive used this forum as a sort of guide/FAQ/supplement for a long time. People here seem helpful and nice.
Also yeah, I like my character but I hope to make my character useful to the group even without becoming the goddess of damage, support casters can do alot of tricks and unlike many d20 systems the GURPS spells require more from the player in terms of creativity.
I can for example see lots of potential in a good bunch of spell but applying them is the hard part, its a kinda complicated cost/benefit analysis. Though Im really considering the delay spell and manastones, Im not sure about how practical delay is but if it can be used right it an be a total game changer.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Well, truth to be told Fireball'ing away is a losers proposition in RAW GURPS, so you opting for other spells is actually a smart move. Leave doing damage to those that don't need to expend resources to do so. Look for spells that disable an enemy directly, or that impose heavy penalties for your offensive arsenal. Look for buffs for the rest. Bless and Curse are both awesome. Curse in particular might not seem like much, but it's unresisted, and it will lower resistance to other spells, active defenses, etc. Don't dismiss the clause that says that a curse can be expended to turn success into failure for particularly significant rolls. What's more significant than failing a resistance roll or active defense against something that will take you out of the fight?

EDIT: of course if you want your GM to hate you, take delay, hang spell, and maintain spell. Then expend some time in the morning precasting your slow expensive spells, rest to recover the ST, and use them immediately in combat, with no energy expenditure. It's the fastest way to convince a GM to start houserulling Magic or to switch to another system.

Speaking of other magic systems, blasting wizards work much better under Sorcery than under GURPS Magic

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Hit them with a cheap, simple spell to keep them from moving first. Many kinds of illusions and various Stun effects can keep somebody still for 1 second, as can anything that knocks people down.

If you can convince your GM to allow it, Compartmentalized Mind with No Mental Separation, Magic PM, and Spells Only allows you to dual-cast at no penalty. Highly effective for stunning somebody while the ground below them sinks.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

That looks very promising, I can see having a -3 curse ready to throw on whatever looks like it might be a problem is a very cool thing.
It might not stop whatever but will make everything -3, effectively Id be robbing him of 12 points in whatever skill he uses. Or even worse in attributes.

On the other hand bless is the very opposite yet still practical, This is good. im going to need a higher magery but it almost is better than upgrading her IQ now.

The projectile spell is still a good way to enable healing over distance, right? But with her DX of 9 is it still worth it?
Im having a hard time as to when skills earn home their points.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

See if your GM will allow the Psychic Guidance Perk. That solves many, many problems with hitting targets.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Bless is so much better than curse since curse will be for one creature and presumably temporary in a combat heavy game (creature dies). Blessing your party members works much better overall unless you're looking for curse's "target fails a critical roll" mentioned earlier.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

So, delaying the spell is the only real way to get around the high fatigue point cost?

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

If I'm reading it correctly, it looks like you might be misapplying Alternate Ability. You always take the highest cost ability at full price, and the lesser costs at 1/5.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

I enjoyed doing:
Hang Spell(Expensive but highly effective spell, possibly with a long casting time)
Rest a bit
Maintain Spell:Hang Spell (give the hung spell a several hour duration without spending additional energy to keep it going, also no longer counts as a spell 'on' so that penalty goes away)
rest a bit
repeat.

note: Steal spell is also handy for adding additional duration if it turns out you did not need that spell just yet but your maintain spell is running out of juice.

Suspend Time and Time Out can be great things to have available at a moments notice.
The various 'Body of' spells, earthquake, enlarge other, etc.

Of course if you want to make things really interesting, try Hang Spell(Lend Energy), and just keep several 'instant recharge' spells hanging around with no down-side except the need to occasionally steal the hung spell to re-up the maintenance time if you do not use them for a while...

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

As fast as I remember, you want Hang Spell, not Delay.. Delay is an area spell, it's cast on the area to create a magic trap. Hang spell moves with the caster,and let's him precast and prepay for the spell.

Those saying that curse is not awesome need to read the second part again. When the cursed target succeeds at an important roll despite the curse, the curse might end and turn the success into a failure. This is a good way to ensure that they fail their roll against flesh to stone, for example. It activates at the GM's option, though. Still, -1 to active defenses is worth +2 to attack, and much more when it comes to defenses, as the rule of 16 caps your skill. Oh, and again, it's not a resisted spell, so it's really worth to get it to skill 20 so it's 1 second cast time.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

We allow Attribute Substitution - Innate Attack off IQ as a perk, see if your DM will buy that

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

So I've got a laundry list of things. In fact, I'll preface this with an outline

1) Properly applying Alternate Ability
2) Stretching Advantage versus Long Enhancement
3) Other important Advantages for the Hair
4) Just try to get the GM to write it up as a Spell since you're a mage.

Number One

I also am confused; for what is her Medusa* Hair acting as an Alternate Ability? Itself so that sometimes its a single Extra Arm, other times it can be two, five or eight? Like RyanW points out, the Alternate Ability rules mean you pay full price for the more expensive of the two abilities, then the other one may be purchased for 1/5th its normal price (if both are the same price, just choose whichever one you want to be the default and pay full price for it, a fifth normal price for the secondary ability).

So if that is the case the eight arm version is the most expensive and thus primary ability.

Number Two

Super long hair can be a real pain when out on an adventure but even with the Enhancement you purchased, they just act as Size Modifier +1 limbs... which means your hair won't reach that far. You can do C actions at Reach 1 and you'll get some potentially useful bonuses for things like grappling.

That might be all you want, but I wished to make sure. Since long hair can be such a pain, if you go this route perhaps Stretching? It costs 6/level but since it is only for the hair bought as Extra Arms, I would think that the -20% Limited ("Arms Only", -20%) would translate to Limited (Hair Tentacles Only", -20). Even if it doesn't, a single level of Stretching costs 6 points and gets you to Size Modifier +1, while you are paying 10 points by taking "Long, +100%" for Extra Arm once and so 16 points total as you buy it three more times but those are Alternate Abilities.

You don't get all the same bonuses, but for the purposes you've described (entangling foes, counting as touch contact for casting spells) this would still work. If the GM agrees it is a legal use for the Enhancement, take at least one level of Reduced Time so that your hair can instantly use the first level of Stretching (since the hair is already magic, I think this is within suspension of disbelief). Reduced Time costs +20% so the Limited (Hair Arms Only, -20%) would even out and you'd still only be paying 6 points per level. If you can spare the points and want some really wild hair, consider extra levels of Stretching and (if the GM agrees) Reduced Time.

Of course as I keep worrying about long hair even when it isn't being used as Extra Arms. If agreeable for the character concept, point budget and GM, apply "Switchable, +10%" on the Extra Arms so that she can reduce them to a more adventure friendly length. This would also allow them to be a bit more of a surprise; whether her default length is a bob, shoulder length, or just less than the full yard implied by Extra Arms, it should be easier to deal with when trying not to get caught up in traps.

Number Three

There is a lot more to effectively using the hair well. Even if we ignore some of the tricks tbrock1031 employed with his build for Medusa like Brachiator (so you can easily move about with your hair wherever there are climbing hand holds) you might want Extra Attack so you aren't forced to choose between doing something with your hair and doing something else. Constriction Attack seems useful but not an absolute necessity. I am wondering about Regeneration and Regrowth; here is where the "fluff" meets the "crunch". Normally hair isn't a limb so defaulting to the normal human experience of "cut hair grows back" should be worth no points. Here? Probably should require points or else the hair just grows back as normal hair. Which leads to the next point...

Number Four

Maybe you should see if the GM will allow this to be a series of Spells (whether a few to cast together or one that just has several prerequisites) instead of having to buy it as an Alternate Ability. It might be less of a headache for all involved.

*The Marvel Comic book character, not the gorgon.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Ah yeah Ill look at those calculations again, probably messed something up there. The GM's girl friend is already after me on the long hair part but making it longer and as an advantage has it even pricier than before and its already pricey as allhell.

Any suggestion on how animate it? I open for any suggestions here, that would be such a cool thing.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

If it's bought as an Innate Attack instead, it's just a feature that it's made of hair.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Well it seems this rules the hairy option out, Otaku has a point its too much for a reach 1 its just not worth it. So its the good old fashioned mage with staff and such it seems.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Buy it as a Reach 1 Innate Attack instead of that clunky Extra Arm build. You can even justify using Feature: Based on Thaumatology instead of a DX-based skill.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

So I guess I'll try not to "rant" this time, though as I didn't think I ranted last time (I was lengthy, but if I seemed angry then it means I failed at formatting) I'm not sure I can. =P

Using Stretching would allow for a substantially longer reach, which is why I included it as a suggestion. If you can't take Reduced Time alongside it (and I'm not sure if that is a legal Enhancement for Stretching) it just takes a second per +1 or -1 Size Modifier change in your hair, until you hit an SM equal to your levels of Stretching (or get back down to your default length).

You're probably right that it is still too much, but five levels of Stretching (especially if you can't get any Enhancements for it) will run 24 points. If the GM okays walking around with your hair already stretched out, you'll have a range of 0 to 5 with it. You also might want to simplify. Ask the GM if it is okay for you to eventually buy variations on how the hair works later and just focus on buying the first version (where the hair works as one giant arm).

In the long run it might be worth it... but if possible see if you the GM will allow you to create a spell that allows your hair to function as an extra arm and hand. Unless they cut it for 4e, "stretching" is already a spell. With this route, there is no worries about severed hair healing or the like (I doubt they got rid of the Body Control spell that sped up hair growth). Essentially you could use this to take a flat -2 (for spells Active) in lieu of real distance penalties (by using the two spells to reach out and touch people with your hair).

How does that work? If it is still reach one, why bother when you could just walk around with a staff enchanted with Staff so that you can cancel up to two hexes of distance. Or did I stupidly miss where Jose explained how he was indeed attacking for damage with the hair. >.>

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

If it's based on Thaumatology instead of Staff skill, this gives our mage a decent Parry, with no fear of breaking an enchanted staff. It's also valid as an AA set with Binding, Constriction, Reach 1-4 whip hair, etc.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

It wasnt meant as you being angry its just that it was really long so adding the full quote in would just bloat the post too much in consideration that my reply was relatively short. Its more that I didnt say it right.

And yeah the hair growth is still there although my witch would still feel bad about it if it got cut off as she just thinks its wrong to cut her hair(She really hates summer... She has 5ft of hair, it gets really hot during summer and she spends time at the campfire picking leaves out from her hair...). Doing some big trick like that is a character in and off itself in pathfinder IRC. So being able to do it would be really cool but as you mention a staff is simply better.

What Im thinking now is buying up spells here and there and simply rushing into magery and HT.
She needs HT to not fall asleep at the start of encounters or whatever and magery is simply so worth it for her, it makes all her spells better.
Her social skills are already really good. So Im not that worried about them and buying up some IQ later still does wonders for her.
10 more pts in magery and all her spells start at 16, thats rather powerful.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Energy Reserve is much cheaper than more HT, and can even recover in combat!

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

In all other cases yeah they'd be better but in this case her narcolepsy requires a roll against HT at the start of combat or when she is excited, a failure and she falls to sleep for a couple of minutes. It has on a couple of occasions been used as an excuse for me to make dinner while they did the encounter.
Later ER is probably better but I want her to have better odds first.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

You have Cure Disease 16; perfect reason to buy off the Narcolepsy! Yes, it's technically a disease, even if it's not contagious.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

I thought he really wanted her to have the condition though, much like he really wants her to have the five foot long hair even without the "hair as tentacles" trick but still with the upkeep. Though there are some spells that can help with grooming, or at least there were in 3e (sorry to keep doing that, but I never got GURPS Magic for 4e but still have my copies of GURPS Magic for 3e as well as GURPS Grimoire).

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Clean(M116) seems like a good option to transform your post-dungeon matt into a freshly washed(and brushed) waterfall.

The hair could be a binding innate attack with limited range, or just a melee range innate attack for damage.

An additional option for the hair would be telekinesis.
Something like
Telekinesis (Reduced Range: 5 yds -10%, Visible -20%, Nuisance effect(I assume there are some), Special effect: takes the form of characters hair performing actions) for 3.5 points/level (or 1 point per level if you add in Uncontrollable -30% and Unconscious only -20%; making it so that you need not activate or control it, but it can also do unfortunate things to your allies. Alternately you could add in Independent +40% for 5.5 points per level to have a 'command-able hair' type deal, or 4/level for commandable hair that some times goes off the rails(Independent + uncontrollable))...)


I admit I like the idea of a Sorceress with hair that will lash out in her defense.
(and at 1 point/level you can have some pretty potent hair for just a few points, but remind your allies not to get too close if it starts to lash out...)

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Thats is not bad , Im going to talk to my GM about this.

Another thing Im looking into is staff combat which is kinda a mage classic.

I looked into some different values: Concerning skill and parry.

14/2 +3 +2 = 12.
12/2 +3 +2 = 11.
10/2 +3 +2 = 10.
9/2 +3 +2 = 9.
8/2 +3 +2 = 9.

With ST 10 its a measly 1d+2, 1d cr damage. Which considering that most opponents is likely going to have DR 5 or so isnt exactly going to be an impressive weapon. Even 1 point gives a defense thats a little better that her dodge of 7.
However isnt those points better spent on a skills or so?

Can I just start using my spells on myself? Like its a disadvantage bought in points? So with regeneration can I just cure her one eye? I think it kinda states that you need to pay the points or does it?

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Your GM really should charge you points for it, but, it's just one of those things that leads to people saying standard Magic needs a serious overhaul.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Well, I cant really find the point where it states you HAVE to pay points. Well, she has a habit of trying out her magic on herself or her teammates granted it wont do lasting harm.
So it could be fun doing, Ill definently do that.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Technically, you should always have to pay off disadvantages. In the case of Magic, well, the only thing stopping you is the GM saying "The Gods say NO!"

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Just be aware that if you have uncontrollable hair with ST 11+ and you see a cat, you might find yourself traveling rapidly away from the feisty feline...

And you might want to keep your emotions in check if you are around people you especially like or dislike lest the actions of your hair give away those feelings...

(could be rather amusing if you had lechery or kleptomania and hair with high TK strength. At the end of the day you might find a number of items(or attractive people) when you brush your hair...)

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Actually the rules are fairly clear, if you have the disadvantage, you must pay the points to eliminate it. Generally, you cannot eliminate physical disadvantages on a whim. The regeneration spell, otoh, grants you the ability to buy off that disadvantage.

So yes, you must pay the points, though some GMs might waive it.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

That settles it, Im not putting it on Nadya. Im putting this on a next character. This is hilarious.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

I'm pretty sure that's not how Cure Disease works. Besides which, as I GM, I would require a pretty solid explanation of why she hadn't already got rid of the disadvantage before play started, if she has the capacity to do so at any time.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

As one of the main complaints I've heard about the standard Magic system for 4e is that most of it was lifted from 3e with little alteration, I'm going to mention how it worked back in 3e: worst case scenario it is a bit of a wasted post, only useful for showing it it used to work.

1) Cure Disease works on microorganisms in third edition, so unless something like that is causing the narcolepsy it won't help.

2) Restoration and Regeneration (if the eye is totally missing, the latter is needed) have some key drawbacks that might prevent someone casually using them. First is the Energy cost: 15 and 20, respectively. Next is the time; while casting time is only one minute, the actual healing process takes an entire month, during which time you cannot make use whatever is being healed. Lastly is they are one try spells.

I don't remember if it is "per caster" or simply "one try period", but combined with the other two, I'd only chance casting the spell when I was quite competent I'd make the roll and have time to properly heal up. It might not work for this character, but it is a decent excuse for a caster that already knows the spell but isn't comfortable trying it out before at least the current adventure plays out.

Now, if the GM doesn't want to hear it, the GM doesn't want to hear it. Like many things there is the issue of GM/player trust (or past experience), though I'm not sure how abusive it actually would be for someone to basically take a "point load" by taking some curable Disadvantages that are otherwise okay for the campaign. If they survive long enough to pay them off, they have the spell cast and if it works, they're golden. I suppose I just would rule that if they don't have the points, such attempts autofail instead of allowing them to go into point debt.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Well, so far Im thinking of one of the following:

1: Cure it. Straight up no problems.

2: Cure it. And talk to the GM about replacing the points. Im thinking Cannot harm innocents and some small disad at 5 pts. Im already playing that she wont just kill innocent people so its basically free points.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

4e Cure Disease makes no mention of being microorganisms only. However, it's at -5 without a proper diagnosis, and 1-shot per mage. Unless you're sitting on a very high skill, you wouldn't really want to waste your one try at this.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Thanks for the heads up; I realize now I probably should have worded it to again emphasize "If it remained the same...". I hope I wasn't misleading. >.>

The "One try per mage" restriction... is it that way for Restoration and Regeneration in 4e, or are they "One try (ever!) or something different? I just want to make sure we give Jose sound advice; it would stink for him to try and get this done quick only to not wait until it was almost a sure thing and then someone rolls a failure or critical failure on the spell. ^^'

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

One try ever is a very rare thing in 4e. One try per mage, and you better believe payment is expected before casting, not after.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

It is one try per mage, it says so in the magic book on page 10. The caster and assistants may not try again, however other mages may.

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

If your GM asks why you haven't cast these on yourself already, simply say you're waiting until you can have an effective skill of 16. No taking any chances with 1-shot spells, after all!

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Yeah. She'll learn it soon enough though the other party members will get truly disappointed when regeneration takes a month.

We had one who was stupid and charged a fully armed and armored dwarf, with a knife.
She lost her leg... Nadya couldnt do anything so it was kinda well...

Now, they are going to expect Nadya to be doing their instant regeneration if it goes awry in the future. Though they havent seen the spell energy costs.

Also enchanting in GURPS its entirely useless unless you have several grand mages available and even then its going to take years to make even the simples ring and the crossbow method is very, very risky.
So is enchantment just something you dont do? I could see the fun in making an hawk eye amulet for the ranged character in the group but the energy and risk seems prohibitive. Any other clever way to do it?

Re: [4e] Mage and (non-lethal) figting.
 

Some GMs house-rule that you can invest energy equal to your Magery per day instead of just 1. However, it's something to be done between adventures, instead of on the go.

Standard Magic really is just a royal pain sometimes, and such is why so many other magic systems exist. If your GM really wants you to be able to blast things when needed, try to get yourself on some sort of quest to uncover knowledge for either Sorcery or Ritual Path Magic. Both are more than capable of blasting things, as well as non-lethal means of subdual.