[MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

In GURPS Martial Arts, historical western martial arts are clumped together in large groups: Italian Rapier, Longsword, Sword and Buckler Play, etc.... This makes a lot of sense, considering just how many individual masters and manuals there were.

Historically (and in many modern HEMA clubs), students will learn the style taught by a specific master or in a specific manual. This forum is a place where people can break up these generalized styles to represent styles as taught historically.

The upshot of this is that, if you're setting a campaign in 17th century Italy, not every character will have the same Style.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

I'll start with a style I've been studying in my HEMA club for the last half-year:

Venetian Rapier 3

This is the rapier style taught by Nicoletto Giganti and his students in the early 17th century. Giganti published manuals in 1606 and 1608.

Venetian Rapier stylists lean back when in guard, keeping their head away from their opponent--in direct contrast to the style taught Giganti's contemporary Salvator Fabris.

This style focuses on sword and main-gauche techniques, but it teaches several off-hand weapon alternatives deep in the second manual (including cloak, buckler, and two other styles of small shield (the targa and rotella). Additionally it has a robust body of techniques for single sword which Giganti insisted his students learn before adding the main-guache.

While there is no discussion of throws or locks, Giganti taught several techniques that involve grabbing the opponents sword-hand (usually after a feint) and then finishing him with a sword or dagger strike.

Skills: Main-Gauche, Rapier
Techniques: Counterattack (Rapier), Feint (Rapier or Main-Gauche), Targeted Attack (Rapier Thrust/Face).
Cinematic Skills: None
Cinematic Techniques: Dual Weapon Defense
Perks: Off-Hand Weapon Training (Rapier), One Trick Wonder (Wrestling for Grapples to Sword Hand).

Optional Traits:
Advantages: Enhanced Parry (Rapier or Main-Gauche), Weapon Master (Rapier)
Skills: Cloak, Shield (Buckler), Shield (Shield), Wrestling.
Techniques: Disarm (Wrestling)

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

If anyone out there has the knowledge and experience to differentiate longsword styles (Fiore, Lichtenaur, and Meyer, perhaps? Or even just German and Italian) that would be awesome.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

I don't have anything on-topic to add, I just want to applaud whomever nicknamed a (presumably kind of small) guy, "Little Nick the Giant," because that is distilled awesome.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

While Giganti and his students may have made no outlandish claims, and perhaps had no such claims made about them, the description implies a few possibilities in a cinematic campaign. Dual Weapon Attack - mixing Rapier, Main Gauche, and Wrestling in a variety of ways - seems appropriate, and thus so does Dual Weapon Defense. Hand Catch seems appropriate for that weapon-hand grapple as well. A cinematic Venetian Rapier stylist is highly likely to have Weapon Master (Rapier), but adding in the other weapons is much less likely.

This looks to be the start of an interesting thread, so I'll be watching it. I don't know enough about various historical styles to be able to contribute, however.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

There are some earlier threads with writeups of historical martial arts (search for the names of the authors of specific manuals).

Don't forget that GURPS players have several ways to represent the differences between masters in a single art without defining a separate style for each, although one style per teacher could be fun in a game about a martial-arts community.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

I've made some adjustments to the post with your comments in mind. I also decided that the Cloak and Buckler stuff is obscure enough to be considered Optional Skills.

I left out Dual Weapon attack, because Giganti doesn't have anything like that. Either the dagger or the rapier is held in reserve for defense.

Dual Weapon Attack (Wrestling Grapple and Rapier) is a really interesting way to represent those techniques. But it might set an odd precedent. I'll have to consider it further.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

I remember some, but they were from back when I only studied eastern MA, so I didn't get to share in the fun.

I'll link to some other styles that fit the parameters of this thread (i.e. based on a specific manual or master):

Bolognese School

Highland/Hungarian Broadsword

Hutton's Saber (From "Cold Steel")

That's all I could find, If there are any I missed, please let me know.

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

Please share thoughts on the following hypothetical break-up of Longsword Fighting:

Early Italian Longsword (Fiore)

Early German Longsword (Lichtenhaur, etc...)

Late German Longsword (Joachim Meyer)

I could also separate out the techniques for Armored Longsword Combat (mostly grappling and half-swording) as a separate style.

Is this representative enough?

Re: [MA] Decompressing Historical Martial arts styles
 

Here's an attempt at Joachim Meyer's Longsword. I haven't studied this personally (the Longsword I study is syncretic and mostly Lichtenhaur and Fiore), so please consider this a rough draft intended to stimulate discussion.

Late German Fencing 5

Joachim Meyer (1537-1571) may have been the most influential German fencing master of his century. His 1570 fechtbuch, Thorough Descriptions of the Art of Fencing is a remarkably complete system.

Meyer's system draws from earlier sources, both German and Italian. In contrast to other Longsword styles, Meyer's system emphasizes cuts more than thrusts and makes extensive use of Beats. In addition to teaching longsword for self-defense, Meyer participated in sport competitions called fetchschulen which used a lighter flexible blunt sword.

Meyer's fechtbuch also teaches combat with the Dussak (MA215), Side Sword (a transitional weapon between broadsword and rapier), Dagger, and Staff. Of all of these, his Longsword and Dussak systems are the most complete.

Skills: Broadsword, Shortsword, Two-Handed Sword, Two-Handed Sword Sport

Techniques: Armed Grapple (Two-Handed Sword), Counterattack (Two-Handed Sword or Shortsword), Close Combat (Two-Handed Sword), Feint (Two-Handed Sword or Shortsword), Targeted Attack (Two-Handed Sword Swing/Face)

Cinematic Skills: Power Blow

Cinematic Techniques: None.

Perks: Grip Mastery (Longsword), Style Adaptation (Bolognese Fencing), Style Adaptation (Early German Longsword)

Optional Traits:
Skills: Judo, Knife, Main-Gauche, Polearm, Rapier, Staff, Wrestling