Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   RPM economy (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=135945)

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:03 AM

RPM economy
 
Introduction

How does magic affect an economy? It would probably start slowly at first with wizards or priests passing through town accepting donations for spells, and less than scrupulous characters selling elixirs and charms that may not work as intended. In a world where anyone can learn the basics of magic the curious or desperate would find teachers. In a world where people can contribute their physical energy to help a skilled caster bring miraculous effects into being, groups will form to cooperate for good or evil purposes. This is the world that Ritual Path Magic has opened up. This is a world where magical knowledge and the cooperation of enough people can accomplish anything. What does this magical society look like carried to its logical conclusion?
In Ritual Path Magic anyone can learn and use magic, mages and adepts are better at it but given time, training and tools anyone can cast spells useful to society. Magic items that eliminate the penalties for not being a mage are within reach of determined people and the other limits of the magic system can be worked around if one is not in combat. A Rite Master would be the one performing a ritual. For these rules the Rite Master would need at least Magery zero and Ritual adept (time) two. These cost twenty five points total but could be placed into an enchanted item allowing anyone to cast economically useful spells without penalty (a protected staff is common for this purpose and would be a thirteen point advantage). One needs Ritual adept (time) two in order to tap into energy sources without having to roll. This ability is critical to this system of magic becoming the hub of the economy. The Rite master would also be working in a consecrated space and have access to some connection to the target to eliminate these penalties. Most Rite masters will have the ritual mastery perk for the rituals they cast most often. Many will have a grimoire for their best rituals. All Rite masters would have their relevant path skills at IQ level. Any Rite master creating charms or elixirs would have a workspace kit for that. Many would try to work from a place of power if one was available. Even a Rite master with a ten IQ (gurps normal) could have a sixteen skill with enough training and equipment.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:04 AM

Re: RPM economy
 
Charms and Elixirs in my campaign:

Charms and Elixirs: In this campaign charms and elixirs can be created as unbound magic items (as in the Ravens and Pennies blog). Such unbound items can exist for Rite master’s skill * two days before expiring. Any unbound charm can be bound with a Thaumatology roll (or Ritual Magic if the character is a priest) and any unbound elixir can be bound with alchemy or herb lore. In this campaign charms take up conditional spell slots (Thaumatology or Ritual Magic + magery) and elixirs take up elixir slots (Alchemy or Herb lore + magery). Otherwise charms and elixirs use the rules as written. Also note that although elixirs take twice as long to create as charms the alchemist Rite Master uses alchemy skill if that is higher than his or her path skill. This means that an alchemist can study alchemy in depth (to IQ level) and only study the basics of the magic paths themselves (one point in each path or IQ -3). Thus with much less study an alchemist has many more potential spell effects available for sale than a Rite master that builds charms. Adventurers will also be taking advantage of the split between charms and elixirs because they can stock more single use magic items than they could otherwise.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:06 AM

Re: RPM economy
 
The Banking system:

Now on to the monetary system: The energy points in Ritual Path Magic are the basic unit of casting energy in this system. Most of the ritual is spent gathering the energy to make the spell effect work. A point of energy could be represented by a token. So long as each token can stand for one and only one point of energy that an individual has contributed to society there will be no inflation. This works because each point of energy doesn’t represent a unit of production the way a dollar does. In a system with Ritual Path Magic each point of energy IS a unit of production. Energy tokens would need to be tradable between individuals and any individual who contributed to a registered circle of magic would have the appropriate number of tokens placed in his or her account. These “magic banks” would be centralized in the cities and have branches to contact smaller settlements. The magic bank would act as both the source and sink for generating and removing magic tokens. The magic bank would be the central accounting hub of the system. The magic bank would serve as the central archive for all personal information. Name, address, birth records, marriage records, education, occupation, background check hair and finger nail clippings, and of course your account balance. We will call the magic bank The Hub.

Business at The Hub: The Hub would be responsible for keeping a registry of Rite masters who can perform various rituals. Anyone who provides energy to a ritual (including the Rite master) would have one token added to his or her account for each energy point contributed. For the unskilled masses this is most often a willing sacrifice of three fatigue points for one energy point per ritual. Rite masters can use their mana reserves or gather ambient energy. It’s also possible to contribute an animal sacrifice to a ritual, in which case the owner of the animal would get the tokens. Any time someone wants to buy a spell they must pay the energy cost of that spell to the Hub (plus the Hub fees, usually 2% of the ritual cost). Note however that the five tokens extra for charms and ten for elixirs is paid directly to the Rite master to pay for the time it takes them to make these items above and beyond the ritual. The employees of the Hub will then deduct that cost from the individuals account and book a Rite master. It is important to note that once energy tokens are spent for a ritual they are erased completely while new energy tokens are minted for participants in a circle who contribute energy. This ensures that each token only stands for one unit of production. This does not mean that people can’t volunteer their time and energy to unregistered rituals, but they will not get paid for any rituals that are “off the grid”. Also note that a failed ritual generates no tokens for the participants. In this unfortunate event people need to rest and start over.

Most people would go to a branch of The Hub to purchase a spell, exchange tokens with each other or find a job as a willing sacrifice for rituals. It is possible to have a magic item that allows two people to exchange tokens without visiting a Hub office. One possible item is detailed below:

Merchant ring: Protected magic ring (-25%) with the linked (+10% for only useable together) advantages of telesend (30) (Secure +20%, Send only -50%, Vague -50% for only sending tokens to another account) and lightning calculator (2). This ring is a seven point enchanted item which is usually only worn by merchants or the very rich. When two people wearing these rings shake hands on a deal this usually signals a transfer of funds. Since the Merchant ring is linked to a single individual it is used as a form of identification for exclusive gatherings or low level security areas.

The Hub in society: Every citizen of an area (or an empire) would be registered at the Hub. All a person’s records are kept at The Hub and would be the first place law enforcement would visit if they needed to identify or find someone. Rite masters would keep their resumes up to date at the Hub office which would include a list of facilities, tools and materials for magic rituals, a list of rituals they offer to the public, and whether they produce charms or elixirs. Rite masters would probably pay a fee for registration but being a Rite master carries a lot of prestige and earning potential. Citizens’ taxes would be taken out of the Hub directly. It’s the one stop shop for all official business.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:08 AM

Re: RPM economy
 
Exchange rates: magic to magic

Exchange rates: What is the exchange rate between tokens of energy and other services if there is one? A token of energy is three fatigue points which takes a common person half an hour to recover, for a maximum of sixteen tokens per day (eight hour work day). Charms take a half hour to create (+ lesser control magic or 5*greater effects multiplier), Elixirs take one hour (+ lesser create magic or 6*greater effects multiplier). One point of enchantment takes two hundred hours. These times would serve as mediums of exchange for magically crafted goods. Since it takes half an hour to recover three fatigue, in theory one energy point pays for the time it takes to create a charm and two energy points pay for the time it takes to create an elixir. This is not entirely accurate however because crafting these items is fairly skilled labor while willing sacrifice is unskilled labor.

If willing sacrifice is considered a poor job (1/5 income) while crafting charms or elixirs is at least an average job it would cost five energy to pay for a caster to make a charm and ten to pay for an elixir on top of the cost of the spells imbued into these items. Since enchanting is a comfortable profession earning ten times that of an unskilled laborer, twenty energy points would pay for an hour of an enchanters time. This means that four thousand energy points would buy one point of an enchantment. The exchange rate would thus be Token, Charm (five tokens), Draught (ten tokens), and Enchantment (four thousand tokens). A willing sacrifice can earn four thousand tokens in a year assuming eight hour days, five day work weeks, fifty weeks working per year.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:10 AM

Consumable items
 
So now with the exchange system worked for magical services out how much do physical things cost? Let’s look at sets of goods and what kind of magical effort it would take to procure them.

Consumable items: Items created directly with magic only last as long as their duration. Food only has to last long enough to be digested (three days) while fuel only has to last long enough to be burned. Since the weight modifiers for Ritual path magic get ridiculous quickly, creating simple consumables with lesser create matter is hugely worth it. These create food spells are examples.

*Create Food/Water:*
Spell effects: Lesser Create Matter (6) + Lesser Create Energy (6)
Inherent modifiers: duration
Greater Effects: 0 (*1)

This spell creates food and drink up to the limit of the caster’s imagination. If a caster with cooking skill visualizes well, the results can rival any chef anywhere.

Typical casting: lesser create matter (6) + lesser create energy (6) (optional to create hot or cold food) + one week duration (+9) + weight of created food, base ten pounds (+0). If more food is needed more energy can always be added. Longer durations are rarely needed as most foods will spoil without special attention in at most two to three days and anything left after that will not last long enough to nourish someone that eats it. Add five energy to make a charm. According to this site http://www.precisionnutrition.com/what-are-your-4-lbs this is how much food a person needs per day.

Oh no I just had a vision of a castle made of candy that only lasts for one hour . . . the ultimate kids play land.

*Essential food:*
Spell effects: Lesser transform matter (40) + Greater strengthen matter (15) + Lesser strengthen matter (15) + Greater control matter (25)
Inherent modifiers: Duration
Greater Effects: 2 (*5)

This spell changes sticks and leaves into blocks of incredibly delicious, filling and nutritious food.

Typical casting: Lesser transform matter (sticks/leave into food) + Greater strengthen matter (food won’t rot) + Lesser strengthen matter (twice as nourishing) +Greater control matter (shape into blocks) Factors ten pounds + one year duration (+ 105 energy). Total energy 200 + five times weight modifiers. Add twenty five energy to make a charm.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:12 AM

Permanent soft items
 
When you want something permanent like cloths, tools or buildings you can’t just create it from nothing with magic, but you can gather materials magically and fabricate the items using magic. Let’s look at soft items first. This covers anything made with cloth, leather, paper, feathers or anything else that is not hard. The fabricate spells listed here have an instantaneous duration. The magic comes in, shapes the matter involved, and vanishes. Thus the items remain until changed again either by magic or physical force.

*Soft Gatherer:*

Spell effects: Lesser Sense matter (2) + Greater Control matter (5) + Greater Control body (5) (for living subjects like crops and animals)
Inherent modifiers: Area of effect, weight
Greater Effects: 2 (*5)

This spell is used to gather soft materials like wool from sheep or corn from a field. One resource can be gathered at a time. The material is put in a pile in front of the caster but must be made into a finished product by other means.

Typical casting: Lesser Sense matter (10) + Greater control matter (25) (to move the material to the caster) + Greater control body (25) (to separate extractable material from living subjects without harming them, examples are wool from sheep, down from geese, or fruit from trees) +5*weight modifiers (for expected amount of material gathered) +5*area of effect modifiers (usually +16 * 5 for just about two acres). Add twenty five energy to make a charm.

*Soft Fabricate (Weaving spell in common parlance):*

Spell effects: Greater control matter (15)
Inherent modifiers: Weight
Greater effects: 1 (*3)

This spell takes soft materials like wool, plant fibers, leather, or down and makes them into whatever finished product the caster desires. Craft rolls are needed to make anything more complicated than bolts of cloth or other simple products. Add fifteen energy to make a charm.

Since a gathering spell can be used over a large area the energy cost to pay for enough fibers to make a shirt is pretty low (on the order of one or two energy). When you look at the cost to actually turn that material into a shirt you could be looking at something between fifteen and thirty energy (for a charm). You haven’t even considered the cost the tailor will charge you. Soft items are kind of expensive in this system but you could have an entire set of cloths made with one casting possibly at -1 to the tailors skill for each article. It is fortunate that lesser restore matter is only four energy plus weight modifiers and greater restore matter is twelve energy plus three times weight modifiers.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:15 AM

Permanent hard items
 
Hard items are most tools, weapons, armor, generally anything made of wood and metal. One would use the following spells for these.

*Hard Gatherer:*

Spell effects: Lesser Sense matter (2) + Greater Control mater (5) + Lesser Transform matter (8)
Inherent modifiers: Area of effect, weight
Greater effects: 1 (*3)

This spell is used to gather hard materials like wood, stone and ore. One resource can be gathered at a time. The pure base material is put in a pile in front of the caster but must be made into a finished product by other means.

Typical casting: Lesser Sense matter (6) + Greater Control mater (15) (to move the material from the area to the caster) + Lesser Transform matter (24) (to reshape the material into ingots, blocks, boards or whatever the most usable form is for that material) + 3*weight modifiers (for the amount of material to be gathered) + 3*area of effect modifiers (+16 *3 for gathering from almost two acres of land). Add fifteen energy to make a charm.

*Hard Fabricate (Forging in common parlance):*
Spell effects: Lesser transform matter (8)
Inherent modifiers: Weight
Greater effects: 0 (*1)

The typical casting is just Lesser transform matter (8) plus the weight modifiers. Add five energy to make a charm.
The relative ease of using a Hard Fabricate spell takes us to the ridiculous conclusion that a suit of full plate mail is cheaper than a cotton shirt . . . but there you go.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:17 AM

Houses and other buildings
 
Houses and other buildings:

To create a house or other building one would first need to gather the materials, refine them (using the fabricate spells), transport them to the site (via the Deliver cargo spell) and then cast a construction spell. Note that two construction spells might be needed, one to build the foundation and one to build the house itself.

*Deliver cargo:*
Spell effects: Greater create crossroads, Greater control matter
Inherent modifiers: Range, Weight
Greater effects: 2 (*5)

This spell is the standard way to move materials from one site to another, typically to or from a ware house within the city.
Typical casting: Greater create crossroads (30) + Greater control matter (25) + 180(1000 mile range) + 50(450 tons) + 25 to make a charm.

*Construction: *

Spell effects: Greater Control matter (5) + Lesser Transform matter (8):
Inherent modifiers: Area of effect, weight
Greater effects: 1 (*3)

Typical casting: Greater Control matter (15) (to move materials around) + Lesser Transform matter (24) (to shape materials) + 3*weight modifiers (+9 or 10 base modifier for a modern house) + 3* area of effect modifier (+4 or 5 base modifier for a modern house).

This spell takes processed materials and turns them into a building, anything from a simple house to a bridge to a castle. The castor needs to make a craft roll vs Architecture to build the building correctly. Thus this spell is usually cast as a charm and given to a skilled architect. Add fifteen energy to make a charm.

To construct a pretty decent sized house you’re looking at ninety nine energy (for a charm). This does not include building materials, transportation costs for materials, furnishings, land prices, broker’s fees or architect fees to name a few. The price of a one family sized house can run into a thousand energy or so, not including land prices. Then there are taxes and utilities to consider with other upkeep.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:18 AM

RPM Heathcare
 
Health care:

Magical health care, yeah let’s look at a few useful spells on that score.

*Cure Disease:*

Spell effects: Lesser restore body
Inherent modifiers: None
Greater Effects: 0(*1)
As RPM page 41

*Diagnose: As RPM page 41*

*Minor healing: As RPM page 47*

*Regenerate body*

Spell effects: Greater restore body
Inherent modifiers: Altered traits for removing penalties, weight modifiers
Greater effects: 1(*3)

This spell is actually the generic name for several spells of its type. If someone is missing an eye, ear, limb or organ it’s a different ritual each time. The calculation for a typical casting is the same. Greater restore body (12) + 3*weight modifiers (+9 total for most people) + 3*disadvantage value.

*Restore youth*

Spell effects: Greater restore body
Inherent modifiers: Duration (as the amount of time reversed)
Greater effects: 1 (*3)

Typical casting: Greater restore body (12) + 3*weight modifiers (+9 for most people) + 63 (for one year reversed) +3 for each additional year reversed, add eighteen energy for an elixir.

*Grant High Pain Threshold*
Spell effects: Lesser strengthen body
Inherent modifiers: Duration
Greater effects: 0(*1)

This spell adds High Pain Threshold for one year, a very popular spell among the willing sacrifice class.
Typical casting: Lesser strengthen body (3) + Subject weight (+3 for most people) + 10 for added trait + 21 for one year duration, add six energy for an elixir.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:20 AM

Summary of RPM economy
 
So we are looking at a situation in which food is ridiculously cheap (one token can get you an all-day buffet pass in most cities). Basic housing can be paid for in a year or less if someone is really dedicated. Wood and lamp oil would be pretty inexpensive as well but someone might be saving up for several days to buy a shirt.

Only the most lazy or disabled people would not be able to work to sustain themselves since it takes no skill to be a willing sacrifice, only the willingness to take pain for a few seconds (-3 to DX, IQ and skills for the next turn). Oh yes and affordable health care with eternal youth, nice perks there. These are the benefits that even the poorest citizens can afford if they have a work ethic. The rich would live fantastic lives with enchantments for every conceivable comfort and pleasure. The surest way to tell who was rich (or extravagant) would be to see how many sets of clothes and shoes they have and the quality of these possessions. The very rich would also have large houses with a lot of enchantments for amenities. Speaking of enchantments, since enchanted items are so important to a magical society what would it take to be an enchanter?

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:22 AM

Enchanting
 
I am assuming that most enchanters would start with IQ 12 (in Gurps higher than average), Thaumatology and path of Magic at IQ and at least one other path at IQ level. Enchanters would also need to have magery zero or an enchanted item that would grant magery zero. An enchanter who was not a Ritual Adept would need to work in a consecrated space but does not need Ritual Adept (time or connection). Unlike the Rite masters who need teams of people and lots of tools to generate magic, a lone enchanter needs very little gear or props to work his craft.

All enchanted items are considered advantages with gadget limitations (characters book 116) and mana dependent. For every two hundred hours an enchanter works on an item the enchanter makes a roll. A success means that time counts as a point of enchantment, a failure means the time is wasted, a critical failure quirks or curses the item somehow, while a critical success has a good effect decided by the storyteller. When the enchanter gains enough points on the item, it is finished. Each point of enchantment costs four thousand tokens as noted before under exchange rates section.

Special materials can also be used to reduce the enchantment time by up to eighty percent. This costs twice as much as eighty percent of the enchantment time would have cost (6400 tokens per point of enchantment) but reduces the time it takes to enchant a point to forty hours instead of two hundred. Multiple enchanters can also work together to create an item (RPM p 25). For each enchanter after the first the lead enchanter is at minus one to skill (and the lead enchanter will probably charge ten percent more for himself per assistant as well as the cost per assistant to account for the risks involved). These two rules can be combined to make an enchanted item very quickly.

An enchanted item can be bound to a character for money unless it is signature gear. Five weeks typical pay (1,875 tokens) equals one point of enchanted item that can be bound (yes it’s cheaper to bind an enchanted item than to create one). An enchanter is considered bonded to any item he makes unless he intentionally made it for someone else (in other words the time he spends building the item counts toward earning the character points for that item). Unless an adventurer builds his own gear he must also bind the item in question. An enchanter can only work on one enchanted item at a time.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:25 AM

Common enchanted items
 
Common enchanted items:

Ceremonial Hedge items: Any enchanted item that only grants magery zero is a ceremonial hedge item. These cost a number of character points (or loads of money) to bond permanently but allow the caster to overcome the penalty for not being a mage.

Food pot: Universal digestion, limits bound spell (body) (-10%), Breakable DR 4 (-15%), SM -6 (-10%), can be taken by stealth (-20%) unprotected, Unique (-25%) total cost 1 point.

Mouth wand: The ultimate dental hygiene device. Resistant to oral diseases/conditions (5) limits as an unprotected wand RPM p 34. Total cost 2 points.

Time piece: A bracelet or amulet enchantment that grants absolute timing for one point. A ring would cost two points.

Hearth: Temperature control (for house) 1 point/3 degrees, area of effect enhancement +100% for 8 yard radius, DR 5 (-15%), SM 0 (-25%), Bound spell (-10%), Unique (-25%) This enchantment is often added to a globe in the center of a house to regulate temperature. In places of typical seasonal variation it may take fifteen levels to keep the house comfortable.

Fire place: This enchantment is just a very limited range, fixed location, innate attack that does 1d burning damage. As its name suggests it is usually enchanted into a fire place in the house and left to burn. This enchantment is usually not bound but can be turned on or off at will by anyone within one yard that commands it. Cost 1 point.

Refrigerated space: This enchantment covers a room up to twelve feet on a side making a good refrigerator for food or some alchemy ingredients. Such a room is usually in the basement and well insulated to prevent the rest of the house from getting cold. This enchantment costs one point per twenty degrees of cold in the enchanted space.

Household servant: This is a permanent version of the Hidden Housekeeper spell, RPM p 44. It is considered an ally worth twenty five percent of the house owner’s value that is around all the time, with minion and summonable. This minion is bound to the house -80% limit for a total of 3 points.

Household lights: Each room in a house can have glass or crystal objects in the walls or ceiling to give a soft light in the room. This can be dimmed by any occupant of the room. This is basically a permanent version of a Light spell RPM p 46. This is a one point enchantment per room.

Gate: This is Warp or Jumper with Tunnel +100%, Extra Carrying capacity (extra heavy) +50%, and usually anchored for a single fixed site -80% for 170 points. Cities will often build portals to other cities for all the usual reasons.

Artisan’s vest: Uses the same modifiers as a bound spell, unprotected cloak (-80%). The vest and all tools bound to it are self-cleaning and repairing (2), the vest has payload for the tools bound to it (1 point per basic lift divided by two), the vest can be enchanted with talent (artificer) (2/level) maximum of four levels. For each type of vest add the payload needed to carry the toolkit to the money cost of the kit itself.

Travelers cloths: Limits - Damaged resistance 1 (flexible), Size modifier 0, Can be stolen (by force), Magic item (bound spell, unprotected) Total limit -80%. These cloths provide Damage resistance one (flexible) to the wearer. Five points of burning or cutting damage will destroy them until repaired but the cloths regenerate one hit point every twelve hours and are self-cleaning. The cloths (including shoes or boots) can be folded together into a handful of fabric and leather for storage. The cloths can be enchanted with the temperature tolerance feature as well as terrain adaptation. One set of cloths can hold any number of these enchantments. The cloths will morph themselves to be heavier or lighter depending on the need. Enchantment cost is four points plus one per terrain type plus one per five levels of temperature tolerance. An enchantment can also be added to the garments for one point allowing the cloths to shift form according to the desires of the character. This allows a character with fashion sense to get his or her bonus much more often.

Sleeping bag: This lightweight travelers sleeping bag is self-repairing and self-cleaning (2 points). Like the cloths it folds into a very small pouch for easy carrying (1 point). A person sleeping in this bag only has to sleep four hours instead of the usual eight (2 points). The travelers bag can have temperature tolerance as well. Point cost is five plus one per five levels of temperature tolerance added.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:26 AM

Education
 
In a world with this kind of magic education is going to be a high priority with literacy and basic math skills being normal education. I’m assuming that a magic teacher should have teaching skill at twelve or higher as well as the skills he wants to teach at twelve or higher. So the teacher “package” would be IQ 12+, Teaching (IQ average), Thaumatology (IQ VH), Any other path skill (IQ VH), or Alchemy or Herb Lore (IQ VH) for a total of thirty eight points. No magery or Ritual Adept is required to be a teacher. Teachers could competently handle skill level times two students in a class and teaching would be an average job. Students (or parents) pay for school in tokens to support teachers and educational facilities. On a very quick perusal of the internet it looks like total spending per pupil accounts for just under half of the total spending on education. Dividing twice the average wealth by the average number of students per class gives one hundred twenty five tokens per student per month. If we assume one hundred and sixty hours of class time per month plus forty hours of homework per month (ten per week) this gives one character point per month in a skill. This puts basic education within reach of the poor (and sleep deprived).

Andreas 07-04-2015 08:26 AM

Re: Summary of RPM economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Servanous (Post 1915456)
So we are looking at a situation in which food is ridiculously cheap (one token can get you an all-day buffet pass in most cities). Basic housing can be paid for in a year or less if someone is really dedicated. Wood and lamp oil would be pretty inexpensive as well but someone might be saving up for several days to buy a shirt.

Only the most lazy or disabled people would not be able to work to sustain themselves since it takes no skill to be a willing sacrifice, only the willingness to take pain for a few seconds (-3 to DX, IQ and skills for the next turn). Oh yes and affordable health care with eternal youth, nice perks there. These are the benefits that even the poorest citizens can afford if they have a work ethic. The rich would live fantastic lives with enchantments for every conceivable comfort and pleasure. The surest way to tell who was rich (or extravagant) would be to see how many sets of clothes and shoes they have and the quality of these possessions. The very rich would also have large houses with a lot of enchantments for amenities. Speaking of enchantments, since enchanted items are so important to a magical society what would it take to be an enchanter?

This seems to ignore critical failures. Even at high skills, anyone who regularly casts spells will likely have a rather short career. Even low energy spells can be pretty dangerous, high energy spells can easily kill you or worse (and very high energy spells can have apocalyptic effects).

There are ways to reduce the risks such as using spells to examine charms for flaws, but these things do add extra costs.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:28 AM

Wealth and status
 
Cost of living: As has been mentioned food is stupidly cheap costing a token per day. Repairing a house costs nineteen tokens per year for normal maintenance (for a charm). Since buying a house (not including land) can be about a thousand tokens, renting a basic apartment shouldn’t go much more than one hundred tokens per month. Lamp oil and wood for heat and light should be cheaper than food, costing maybe a token every week. Any item of ten pounds or less is going to cost it’s fabricate cost (for a charm) with one token thrown in for materials (36+) for soft items and (19+) for hard items. The additional cost is paying for the skill of the craftsman which is usually one or two tokens.

Taxes: Taxes vary by city or empire and would reduce the income figures given below. In medieval societies taxes could total 50% of a peasant’s income. In the modern world it’s usually closer to 30% for the lower to middle classes. If rent and taxes take up two hundred tokens a month for the willing sacrifice class a family will have a problem just surviving unless both parents work.

Dead broke: No money or income (trash pickers, people with mundane background) (status -2)

Poor: 300 tokens per month (willing sacrifices) (status -1)

Struggling: 750 tokens per month (apprentices, students) (status 0)

Average: 1,500 tokens per month (teachers, craftsmen or professionals, many Rite masters) (status 0)

Comfortable: 3,000 tokens per month (enchanters, Grand Rite masters) (status 1)

Wealthy: 7,500 tokens per month (High level Hub executives, high priests in certain faiths) (status 2)

Very wealthy: 30,000 tokens per month (High guild masters, Mayor of a large city, University president) (status 3)

Filthy Rich: 150,000 tokens per month (Regional administrator, Arch Mage) (status 4)

Wealth adds to status as well up to +3 from wealth.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:32 AM

Re: To Andreas
 
I didn't crunch the numbers much for critical failures within the system. But you're right that would affect the cost of things. I'm designing a campaign based on the idea of this kind of magic system in a world and wanted to work out the basics first. Many eyes will help me find the bugs in the system.

Servanous 07-04-2015 08:52 AM

The workaround
 
Ok I've got a work around for critical failures. Basically craft an enchanted item with Ridiculous Luck with the game time enhancement (+0%) from the powers book. Yes it will dramatically increase the cost of being a Rite Master but will almost eliminate the critical failures. An enchanter would benefit from such an item as well but would only need the basic level of Luck.

Kalzazz 07-04-2015 12:55 PM

Re: RPM economy
 
I personally am okay with just handling those things with job rolls or whatever and that boring mundane uses of magic just are boring mundane uses of magic, and only fully rolling out actual adventure relevant sorts

ericthered 07-04-2015 01:24 PM

Re: The workaround
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Servanous (Post 1915466)
Ok I've got a work around for critical failures. Basically craft an enchanted item with Ridiculous Luck with the game time enhancement (+0%) from the powers book. Yes it will dramatically increase the cost of being a Rite Master but will almost eliminate the critical failures. An enchanter would benefit from such an item as well but would only need the basic level of Luck.

Please note that this counts as 'stacking magic', makes you better at casting via the use of magic, and thus doesn't work.

Servanous 07-04-2015 01:42 PM

Re: The workaround
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered (Post 1915506)
Please note that this counts as 'stacking magic', makes you better at casting via the use of magic, and thus doesn't work.

A spell can't make you better at magic but enchanted items can. That's why you can have an item enchanted with magery or ritual adept but you can't add these traits with a spell. As the last point in the stacking spells sidebar says

This restriction only applies to spells; permanent magic, such as that
found in places of power (pp. 32-33) and enchanted items (pp. 33-35),
can make a caster better at using magic!

Snaps 07-04-2015 05:33 PM

Re: RPM economy
 
A society where Ritual Path Magic is commonplace is either going to be an undreamed of utopia, or a nightmarish hell on earth. Probably the latter.

Some things to consider:

-Such a society will have spread across the galaxy:

A gate that lasts a year, to any point in our galaxy costs less than 500 energy. This might sound like a lot, but it really isn't. Five decent casters, working together, with the best equipment, grimoires, etc., on a place of power can gather this no problem.

They'd also spread across dimensions:

A Gate to an alternate earth is only 10 energy. They'd have explored far more quantoms than Infinity Inc.

-They'll probably destroy themselves:

The way Working Together works just promotes disasters. You get your full skill roll for the gathering energy, then at the end the leader makes a roll to complete the ritual. What happens when one idiot gets 100 people together and tells them he's going to change the world. They'll quickly gather 1000 energy or more (probably a lot more) then the leader will critically fail the final roll (due to his -100 penalty). BOOM.

-Warfare will be insane:

Take 5 decent casters (14 skill), give them a great place of power (+5 skill), the best tools (+2 or more), Great trappings (-25% to energy cost), and the best grimoire the military can afford (+10 skill).

This gives them a final skill of 31. The Quick and dirty chart gives them a safe threshold of 175. So with their trappings, that means they can each gather about 437 energy by only exceeding twice their threshold. That's 2185 energy that these 5, decent mages can play around with.

Mana Bomb
Spell Effects: Greater Create Energy.
Inherent Modifiers: Damage, External Burning Explosive.
Greater Effects: 1 (x3).
A simple fire charm, that explodes when broken.
Typical Casting: Greater Create Energy (6) + Damage, Exter-
nal Burning Explosive 350d (696). 2106 energy (6×3).


A pretty simple spell, that will cause a 700 yard explosion. Honestly though, you'd probably be safe with up to fifteen or more of these decent mages working together, giving you a 1000d spell.

So many horrors...:

Now imagine they take the energy from the Mana Bomb, and instead summon a demon... or an elemental... or Cthulhu. Summoning a 2,000 point horror to attack your enemies might be more effective than a bomb.

They will be Supermen:

Let's go with 6000 energy being the upper limit of what a millionaire can afford. Total perfection is then possible. A +10 IQ charm, that lasts a century won't even cost 1,000 energy. Same with one for DX. HT and ST are obviously cheaper, and you can build Belts of Strength that are literally powerful enough for someone to destroy the earth with one punch. Super Strength 55 is going to be pretty close to that 6,000 energy mark. Not to mention Armor of Injury Tolerance.

Even if you think my examples are extreme (maybe they are). Even using much less energy you're going to get some big results.

Five casters with even little training should be able to muster up 50 energy each with the right tools. That's 250 energy. That allows quite a number of cool effects. +3 IQ pills might be more common than viagra.

Just some things to think about. My players have been pulling some whoppers on me with RPM. Which is fine. It's a powerful magic system. Much more like Mage: The Ascension then GURPS: Magic IMO.

ericthered 07-04-2015 10:06 PM

Re: The workaround
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Servanous (Post 1915507)
A spell can't make you better at magic but enchanted items can. That's why you can have an item enchanted with magery or ritual adept but you can't add these traits with a spell. As the last point in the stacking spells sidebar says

This restriction only applies to spells; permanent magic, such as that
found in places of power (pp. 32-33) and enchanted items (pp. 33-35),
can make a caster better at using magic!

True, but be aware by default enchanted items only work for their maker, and are bought with points -- Not something that lends itself to mass production. Also be aware that making such magic common place has very unbalancing effects on RPM.

Places of power will be in high demand, very expensive and busy real estate.

ericthered 07-04-2015 10:28 PM

Re: RPM economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaps (Post 1915534)
A gate that lasts a year, to any point in our galaxy costs less than 500 energy. This might sound like a lot, but it really isn't. Five decent casters, working together, with the best equipment, grimoires, etc., on a place of power can gather this no problem.

you say 'decent'. please note that not every setting that uses RPM does so at Monster hunters point levels. It is completely valid to have a setting where the best casters have skill 16 or less in their favored paths. 500 is a TON of energy.Yes, you can do it with 5 custom +10 grimoires and a +5 place of power. If you can get the grimoires (can the folks in the setting make custom grimoires?)

Quote:

They'd also spread across dimensions:

A Gate to an alternate earth is only 10 energy. They'd have explored far more quantoms than Infinity Inc.
This is actually pretty expected. I'll note you'll need weight, duration, or both. creating a new gate is a greater effect. But at under 40, many mages will be able to handle it. If the worlds they are trying to travel to exist. You can't get to an alternate reality where you're king if it doesn't exist in your multiverse.

-They'll probably destroy themselves:
Quote:

The way Working Together works just promotes disasters. You get your full skill roll for the gathering energy, then at the end the leader makes a roll to complete the ritual. What happens when one idiot gets 100 people together and tells them he's going to change the world. They'll quickly gather 1000 energy or more (probably a lot more) then the leader will critically fail the final roll (due to his -100 penalty). BOOM.
Thats actually not the way it works. RPM pg. 25 under working together states:

Quote:

All rolls involved with the ritual are
at -1 for every caster past the first, however,
If you have 100 casters, everyone is rolling at -99 every time they try to gather energy. The optimal way to gather energy

Snaps 07-05-2015 12:33 AM

Re: RPM economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered (Post 1915583)
you say 'decent'. please note that not every setting that uses RPM does so at Monster hunters point levels. It is completely valid to have a setting where the best casters have skill 16 or less in their favored paths. 500 is a TON of energy.Yes, you can do it with 5 custom +10 grimoires and a +5 place of power. If you can get the grimoires (can the folks in the setting make custom grimoires?)

When I say decent I'm thinking Magery 2 and a 14 skill? Honestly, it probably doesn't matter. Even five non-adepts with skills of 12 could probably pull it off.

A 12 skill, with +2 equipment, and +10 grimoires, on a +5 place of power gives those five casters each an effective skill of 29. That gives each of them a safe threshold of 155. Casting the spell is no problem.

Also, there's no reason to only use five casters. A project like this is going to get the best lead mage they can get, use something like 15 mages, all with a wild boar or better to sacrifice, etc. They'll hardly tap into their own energies at all, and pull off this spell with very low risk.

Lastly, I see nothing that limits how many willing sacrifices can contribute to a ritual. Damn, I hadn't noticed that before. That makes a lot of things possible. Probably deserves its own thread.

Keep in mind. I'm not saying that anyone could do this. But it would happen. Probably a lot. Think of how much we spend on space exploration. Or how much empires, kingdoms, and merchants have spent throughout history to explore the world. Gates costs pennies. Any gate someone spends the money on to have created is going to make its money back a hundredfold, most likely more.

Do they even need more than one Grimoire? As I was thinking about it, I see no reason five people can't read from the same grimoire at once. This is the cast in every movie, tv show, and book I've ever read. Buff and the Scoobies, or the Charmed Girls all gather around the dusty tome, then start chanting and casting their spell.

Quote:

-They'll probably destroy themselves:

Thats actually not the way it works. RPM pg. 25 under working together states:

If you have 100 casters, everyone is rolling at -99 every time they try to gather energy. The optimal way to gather energy
That's not the way I read it, but I could be wrong (I often am). I think they roll their gather energy rolls like normal, and only the rolls to cast the ritual itself has the minus.

ericthered 07-05-2015 09:20 AM

Re: RPM economy
 
Yeah, willing rituals contributing energy in a linear fashion is mathmatically unstable. I usually disallow or nerf it to be logarithmic (first two sacrifices are worth full, but you need four to triple, eight to quadruple, 16 to get 5 times base, and so forth). I often forget not everyone sees that rule as annoying and stomps on it.

I've never thought about sharing a grimoire between joint casters. Its probably fair. Custom grimoires are not a given, but in an open RPM world that switch is probably on.

---------------------------------

The text of the book, which I quoted, does say "ALL ROLLS are at -1...." I can only assume all rolls includes energy gathering rolls.

Servanous 07-05-2015 01:53 PM

Re: The workaround
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered (Post 1915581)
True, but be aware by default enchanted items only work for their maker, and are bought with points -- Not something that lends itself to mass production. Also be aware that making such magic common place has very unbalancing effects on RPM.

Places of power will be in high demand, very expensive and busy real estate.

Ghostdancer covered the first point on his metatronic generator blog where you can bind items for money. As to the second point . . .

Greater Strengthen Magic can temporarily expand the area
covered by a place of power (though not its bonus) or
increase the DR or HP of an enchanted item (though not the
strength of its enchantment). RPM p 10

and a spell of my own design

New spell: Expand place of power
Spell effects: Greater strengthen magic (9)
Inherent modifiers: Area, duration
Greater effects 1: (*3)
This spell expands a place of power so that more casters may benefit from it. In extreme cases an entire city can be covered by such magic.
Typical casting: Greater strengthen magic (9) + 108 for one mile radius + 63 for one year duration.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.