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-   -   [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=135744)

Anders 06-21-2015 02:07 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Yeah, as I understand it the cost for a Very Fine non-sword is through the roof because, historically, such items were very rare and you would need a specialist to make them. That might not apply to, say, dwarfs who like Very Fine axes thank you very much. If you combine DF and LTC2 (may God have mercy on your campaign), there's little point to using a sword at all. A Dwarven axe with a spike is strictly better than a sword with the exception of weight.

johndallman 06-21-2015 02:36 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1911992)
Isn't there an underlying logic behind the rules, one that can be dug out, analyzed, and then applied to such questions as the one the OP is asking?
I don't know. I was thinking in terms of the practical making of real objects, where (IME) trying to upgrade just one aspect is often quite hard, and doing the whole job better is more effective.

Kalzazz 06-21-2015 03:03 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
A khopesh is an all metal sword like thing (as well as axe like thing) that already costs as much as a sword, making a Fine Khopesh should use sword costs

Celti 06-21-2015 03:13 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz (Post 1912008)
A khopesh is an all metal sword like thing (as well as axe like thing) that already costs as much as a sword, making a Fine Khopesh should use sword costs
I agree with Kalzazz here; the high cost factor of quality axes, polearms, and maces isn't so much because they're harder to make, but because the base weapons are so cheap. An axe or mace is $50; a halberd is $150; a broadsword is $600! The khopesh at $450 should use the sword CFs.

Peter Knutsen 06-21-2015 11:20 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman (Post 1911999)
I don't know. I was thinking in terms of the practical making of real objects, where (IME) trying to upgrade just one aspect is often quite hard, and doing the whole job better is more effective.
Anders may be onto something. It might be the case that GURPS has an implicit "UB-like" assumption about nobody historically made really awesome axes so therefore we'll give them a higher CF than for swords.

If so, that's a stupid rule and should be changed.

But it could be the case that it genuinely is a lot harder to make a Very Fine axe than a VF sword.

Flyndaran 06-21-2015 11:59 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Axes are naturally more forgiving of lower quality steel. But getting that super duper sharpness bonus requires proper sword quality steel, so I see why it should suffer a bump in price to that of expensive swords.

Tomsdad 06-22-2015 12:47 AM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celti (Post 1912009)
I agree with Kalzazz here; the high cost factor of quality axes, polearms, and maces isn't so much because they're harder to make, but because the base weapons are so cheap. An axe or mace is $50; a halberd is $150; a broadsword is $600! The khopesh at $450 should use the sword CFs.
That was always my understanding, and in absolute terms a fine axe is still cheaper (+$450) to make than a fine broadsword (+$1,500)

As for deciding what weapon falls into what category I'd go by description of form, the khopesh even if it has axe like qualities in function, in form is still a weapons grade length of metal with a sharp edge so is a sword (it's priced like sword as well), if nothing else the first line in the description on LT pg57 is:

"A curved, sickle-like
slashing sword"

jason taylor 06-22-2015 03:28 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders (Post 1911933)
Low-Tech gives detailed rules for what categories of weapons cost when made Fine or Very Fine. Categories include thrown weapons, missile weapons, projectiles melee weapons in general, swords and others. Some weapons fall in more than one category - the Khopesh can be used with the Broadsword or Axe skill, the Spear can be a melee weapon, a thrown weapon or a missile, etc. What do I do when a weapon falls into more than category - what Cost Factor should I use? I suggest using the cheapest one, but I would like to know what the hive-mind (and the author) thinks.
One point is that a missile weapon would rarely be made Very Fine-it is expendable. There are exceptions of course like the Lone Ranger's silver bullets or the Black Arrow that killed Smaug. Most Very Fine weapons will be either hand weapons or the launch mechanism of a projectile weapon(I.E. a bow or a gun).

Flyndaran 06-22-2015 03:52 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1912318)
One point is that a missile weapon would rarely be made Very Fine-it is expendable. There are exceptions of course like the Lone Ranger's silver bullets or the Black Arrow that killed Smaug. Most Very Fine weapons will be either hand weapons or the launch mechanism of a projectile weapon(I.E. a bow or a gun).
I doubt a hypothetical very fine bow would perform properly unless it fires very fine arrows.
One can only perform up to the weakest link in the chain of required steps.

jason taylor 06-22-2015 03:55 PM
Re: [LT] What if a weapon is in several categories?
 
At the least a bow is more likely to be Stylized then an arrow


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