Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Hello there. I have wanted to play gurps for ages and i am considering buying the basic sets. I have played rpgs for many years and I have regularly been a dungeon master or game master, or dm, or gm, or whatever you call it, for almost the past year and a half. however as I would most likely be dungeon mastering gurps if I bought it I decided to check if miniatures were required. I like miniatures- I just don't like dming them. in my opinion, they slow down the game and they are often way too expensive. I feel the same way about the combat graph-paper like maps used with the miniatures. so I Googled it and researched it on these forums and I just couldn't discover if minis or maps were necessary. I did see a few forum posts about them but none of those answered my question. so are miniatures required to play gurps? what about maps? are the optional? (I don't mean use a chess piece or Lego minifigure or whatever for a miniature instead of a rpg mini kind of optional; I mean are miniatures one of those rules in gurps that are included but not required?) please respond. thank you. have a excellent day.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

No not at all.

I find that my players like me to pull out the miniatures so they can see where their characters are on the battle field but that is absolutely a personal choice and pretty often I don't pull them out at all.

There are also a strategy miniatures rules in the campaigns book that helps if you like that sort of thing where you have literal movement points along the map but the game works just fine without them both with the map and without it.

Probably one of the reasons there isn't a definitive answer is that GURPS is modular and all rules are optional including the miniatures.

As long as the player can tell which character is them and which character is the baddie almost anything the right size will do as a miniature. Currently I've used green army men, poker chips, dice containers, dice, tiny swords, pieces of paper, pencils, pens, coins.

To use the miniatures rules you need to know front and back and where you are. But just to use miniatures as markers you don't really need anything but a marker you recognize.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

GURPS is certainly not dependent on miniatures. Obviously there are times when it's helpful to have a visual representation, but it is by no means required.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Maps and miniatures are optional in the combat rules, but commonly used by a lot of groups.

Whether maps improve play speed or not depends on the group and the context. In my face to face group, running small combats using ranged weapons, I'd be happy to skip the maps and minis and just describe what's going on. In my online group that uses text chat only, maps are essential for keeping the game on track: everyone can instantly see where they are and where the foes are, and the GM doesn't have to spend all his time retyping the answers to questions such as "where did you say the big knight went again? Is he next to the wizard or the archer?"

If you're comfortable with not using miniatures and maps, the game supports not using them.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Personally I've run entire campaigns without minis (those were also mostly higher tech campaigns where melee ranges were almost never involved). In others I've mixed and matched using minis, quick sketches, and just descriptives as needed.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

The combat sections are broken down into (Basic) Combat and Tactical Combat. The Tactical Combat chapter is optional and covers all the rules for using miniatures and maps. So the simplest answer to you question is no, miniatures and maps are absolutely not required.

However, I find them to be very useful. In fact, I've gone the extra step of setting up a projector just so I can project maps onto my tabletop for the games. Miniatures need not be overly expensive either; You can get Cardboard Heroes PDFs which you can print out and use multiple times over for not too expensive. There used to be two printed versions of Cardboard Heroes, one Modern and the other Fantasy, but they're a little hard to find. I recently sold an extra set of each that I had on eBay, and only got about $20 each for them. Each set has a little over 400 cardstock cutouts, which are more than adequate for gaming.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

I find that a few sessions played with minis helps people learn to visualize the combat system, and thereafter I can dispense with them. I don't spend a fortune, though, but if I see a boardgame that has minis in the dicount bargain bin, I'll pick it just for those. So what if the enemy is a robot? I'll use a zombie fig 'cuz that's what I have.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Don't need them. I have really gotten a lot of use out of the range bands in Action 2 for mapless abstract combat.

What I use instead of miniatures are plastic army men. You can typically find a bag of them for a dollar at cheap stores. They work really well for when you want tactical combat, but don't want to spend money.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

You can easily run GURPS without using any kind of miniatures. GURPS is modular, and almost all the rules are optional to one degree or another.

To be a bit more specific, GURPS has many options for combat rules that you can use. They aren't this-or-that alternatives for the most part. They are more like numerous optional rules you can plug in to add detail and complexity. Many of the rules presented in the Tactical Combat section are much easier to use if you have a hex grid and some kind of visual representation of the positions of the characters. But you don't have to use those rules, and combat will still be interesting and give players meaningful tactical decisions to make without them.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Maps and minis are certainly not required.

I've played somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 GURPS sessions. We've used scaled tactical maps less than 10 times. The only minis we used for those few times were either dice or (on 2 high-production-value occasions) lego figures.

Most of the time, if people need a visual representation to help with tactical decisions, we make a quick sketch with pencil on paper, dry-erase on whiteboard, or use the drawing app on an electronic tablet.

EDIT: I told my wife about this thread and she said, "Who plays GURPS with miniatures? We tried that once and everyone hated it."
Different strokes for different folks.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

GURPS does not require you to use miniatures and hex maps for combat. Doing so is optional; chapter 12 is for those who choose to use them.

Welcome to GURPS.

Btw, the incredible support you're currently enjoying from these forums is not unusual.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

I think you can speed up play AND use minis and maps.

Look at Cardboard Heroes here at W23 or Pathfinder Pawns (I really like these because they are flat, colored and ready to roll. Also easy to store/carry).

Look at Crystal Caste BattleTop to get your minis off the table and free up room (it's super amazing!).

Why use minis? I believe it helps keep everyone on the same page as far as range and location. It helps show who is standing where and eliminates the confusion of placement I've encountered with Theater-of-the-mind style play.

I don't use a lot of drawn maps! I just note obstacles and maybe corners. I want imagination to rule! I just use the mat and minis to show placement of combatants. It sets up quickly, breaks back down quickly, and helps clarify what is going on. I also tend to note an exit or mark the end of the map as an "exit". If someone runs for it and hits an exit, it becomes a chase until the fleeing side gets away or gets caught. Then you can setup another "crib layout" and start real time combat again.

Minis do not have to involve elaborate layouts or drawings to be useful!

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Most of my personal combat is in starship boarding actions. As such, deckplans are pretty much a requirement. The deckplans are a ~ 5ft grid, so we just treat that as a space. Generally a few quick marks (use a photocopy!)as to who is where, and perhaps a lightly drawn arrow to indicate movement. Generally a little circle for enemies, and an 'x' over them if they become casualties. We don't generally keep track of facing in a tactical sense, and in "who shoots first" situations I've never used Basic Speed, usually it's a roll, or a simple "you went into the room with two enemies. When you come out, of course the other soldier in the hall shoots second. He's deciding whether you're friend or foe, and you know already." (I fired, rolled up hitting him in the hand, he had a rifle, I shoot him again, rolled skull. Couldn't have planned it that way). Plus, in conjunction with wounds jotted down on a piece of paper, provides a complete record of events. (Along with a recap of events typed into a text edit file I often make a couple of hours later while my memory is fresh

Also, is there any interest on this forum for recaps of your greatest gaming sessions? If so, I might start a thread on that.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

I've done it both ways hundreds of times (maybe a thousand times for without miniatures and maps). It works fine both ways, provided both players and GM are comfortable with or without, as the case may be, miniatures and maps. I have a small preference for doing without miniatures and maps, but the other way is fine, too.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Like the others have said, you don't need minis to run GURPS combat. I've been GMing GURPS now since I first picked up 3rd edition in 88. Maybe, one of these years I'll try the miniatures combat rules to see how they compare to other games that are heavily based on them.

Like you, I also feel that they do tend to slow the game down.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

No, miniatures are NOT required.

The basic combat system is abstract.

And because we know some people like maps and minis, the combat system is followed by a separate, tactical "add-on" chapter that offers a few additional rules for people who do want to use them.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

My group plays over irc, and we never use miniatures. A simple clear explanation of position and range is all we've ever required. Only thing slowing us down us dodgey internet. :P

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Seriously, the tactical combat system is worth a try. No reason why you can't use it in the same campaign with narrative combat, depending on circumstances. My present campaign is supers, all narrative combat becuase I have crazy powers in use, like a Speedster with many levels of Altered Time Rate. But my previous campaign was gladiators, lots of combat on a hex grid, specifically to explore the finer points of the system. I had players working out to use the Reach of their weapons to best effect, making run-around attacks to the non-shield side, seeking the high ground. Using the options cleverly is as good as having 4 more levels of skill, in my opinion, and a lot of fun in its own way. More importantly, my narrative combats in the present game are better, because of our experience in the gladiator game. Even without a map on the table, we can see it in our heads because of that training.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

I hear ya. I play via Google Hangout these days, and flaky Internet is our biggest issue, especially since my friends live in Wyoming.

We do use miniatures, though. The GM (with whom I've been playing RPGs since 1979) likes minis and loves to make maps (he's an artist). The two of us who play remotely (the group varies between eight and twelve) each ask someone to put our miniature in a different hex, and it all works out fine.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

Everyone's already well answered the "Are miniatures necessary or not" question so I won't bore you with the same answer again :D

I'll just chime in as a tiny voice in the wilderness noting that I'm one of those people who gets lost driving around my home neighborhood or in the mall, unless I have a compass I can see the entire time I'm wandering about. Since my character sheet doesn't come with a compass to keep me oriented with my character, I get so VERY lost in games, and some kind of tokens down on the table helps me a lot with that. I can get left behind even in combat-less roleplaying scenes because I've lost track of who's nearby who and what's where in the environment.

But a battle map and hex by hex movement isn't necessary to fix that for me. I like to do tactical combat because I find it fun in just about every system I play in. As a GM, I like making environment maps and combat maps because I know I'm not flubbing communicating the scene to my players - I know my skills at drawing a map are better than describing things verbally.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

I have occasionally used maps and miniatures approach, but quite often I do not. In recent years, rather than miniatures, I've switched to free paper miniatures which I download (and modify in Paint) from juniorgeneral.com (such as these). I print them on card stock and tape them to 1" slotted wooden hex bases from Litko. For maps, I use colored rolls of http://www.gamingpaper.com/index.php. Paper building miniature sets from W23 or Drivethrurpg are great, but I also just small boxes, wooden blocks, etc. for terrain. If I need something specific, I make it with air dried clay, or draw it on the gaming paper.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

I think it depends on the type of game you are going for. I am avid Tactical Board gamer, and play games such as: TSR's Sniper Special Forces, SPI's City-Fight, and Patrol. However, I have been eyeing GURPS to give a nice round RPG with some tactical fighting - almost making a hybrid chess sort of game.

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

GURPS is the one system where I can run combat either with complely narrative positions or strict hex grids and both feel perfectly fulfilling.

In my current campaign, I can build full sets for some encounters and run others without so much as a sketch of the area, during the same stretch of dungeon - I've even switched between the two in the middle of a fight. transistioning between the two is extremely smooth.

There is nothing wrong with using miniatures in GURPS, but it's first and foremost a matter of preference, not of necessity.

My campaign blog has some pictures showing off miniatures use in GURPS, although I'm using square grids: archonshiva.com/blog/spire
</shameless plug>

Re: Are Minatures or maps required for gurps?
 

My group uses map tools. I as GM find it extremely helpful. I put NPCS stats on the tokens & that helps me a lot.
Also my players are very tactical and like the exactitude of the maps.