[SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevators'?
 

Greetings, all!

Sanitised Metabolism grants '+1 to reaction rolls
in close confines (cramped spaceships, submarines, eleva-
tors, etc.)'.
Now, I'm wondering just how often the opportunity to benefit from it actually arises. Now it looks like a significant part of the time, it would be deliberately arranged:
Sure, either you're on a submarine/spaceship, or not. But making sure the make the important requests when you 'accidentally' end up riding the same elevator as your target seems like a viable strategy.
It also seems that at least half the time, it's easy to arrange a close approach when using Sex Appeal: as long as it's possible to get close to the target, either the +1 helps get a success at Sex Appeal (so you end up being a daring but very-well-reacted-to character), or it fails, and you get a Bad Reaction anyway (so you creep out the target one way or another, and it's extremely unlikely to make a difference).

Thoughts on the topic? More viable cases of application?
Thanks in advance!

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Most hygienic people don't stink in elevators after only the few seconds to minutes it normally takes to ride them.
Stuck in one worrying for hours would raise the issue, of course.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I honestly find the +1 to be kind of weird. I expect it's actually "Won't get a -1 from accidentally farting or having BO, which is only noticeable in enclosed spaces," but that's really hard to adjudicate in game, so it becomes a +1.

Only, the very reasons that makes the random -1s for being a smelly human hard to adjudicate make the +1 rather hard to run as well. Basically, you get it whenever you DON'T fart or DON'T have BO in the sort of circumstances where doing so would get you a -1.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Humans evolved to produce stink above and beyond that automatic to all animals.
Only humans, chimps, and gorillas among primates have armpit stank, for example.
Lack of stink is most assuredly inhuman, not merely lacking unusual odor.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Yeah, it's broken. "I'd like you more if we had met in an elevator" does not make any sense. It's clearly intended to be you don't suffer a penalty that you might otherwise, not that you get a bonus.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Removing and preventing armpit stank is, however, something one does on a daily basis as a woman in North America. Between washing once or twice a day, shaving (which significantly reduces trapping of sweat and therefore smell "maturation"), applying deodorant or antiperspirant, wearing loose or sleeveless clothing, and living in air conditioning, it's quite possible to run into a woman who just plain doesn't have stinky armpits for at least part of the day.

We don't tend to think these people are aliens, monsters, or baboons.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Only as long as you never get within 1 foot of said woman. I say this even after I lost my super sense of smell.
People smell. Pretending we don't under any circumstances that won't add enormous amounts of perfume/chemical scent seems like some kind of cultural delusion.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

'Broken' seems like a serious accusation for a narrowly-applicable pair of bonuses (-1 to be tracked by scent only, and +1 to Reaction in close confines only).

Now, whether the intended mechanic was to offset penalties is an interesting question. But 'offsets a -1 penalty that is usually not factored into reaction rolls even when it might anyway' seems very meh compared to other Perks.

Also, an interesting note is that Sanitised Metabolism isn't restricted to smell only.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Has anyone ever created its opposite? I think we all know or are ones that render bathrooms HazMat superfund sites, or need two or more showers on days of major exercise.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

You can stick your nose right in the shaved armpit of someone who's well washed and wearing airy, clean clothing in a cool environment, and it's not going to smell any more or less than their forearm is. Get rid of the clothing (which traps sweat) and it's doubly so.
Make them a vegan instead of a meat eater, and the effect is even easier to achieve.

Bad Smell is a canonical -10 point disad good for -2 reaction penalties just about all the time, but for humans I think that level of reaction penalty is either one of those unfortunate genetic problems that make you smell like fish oil because of protein mutations, a work-related "injury" from working with substances with lots of mercaptans in them, or a level of poor hygiene just as well represented as an OPH.

A problem that's more periodic (terribly foul farts but not terribly frequent farts) could probably be tinkered together from Bad Smell and the Frequency of Appearance rules for reputation.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I think the +1 for close quarters might be more "You won't generally notice this unless you're living with them and/or in close quarters." Definitely not a RAW statement, but between what the rest of the text says and thinking about it, that would seem to be the benefit. Also don't forget how "big" a +1 is in GURPS; this is the equivalent of "is Attractive, but only in close quarters or similar situations."

Perhaps it is just because I'm so picky myself, but it is a Perk I know I both wish I had and wish was actually a zero point feature of real humans. XD

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I'm not sure it's all that 'big':
For [1], you can get a +1 Reputation vs. Everyone that applies on a 7- (i.e. 1/6 of the time).

Sanitized Metabolism has the other benefit of providing -1 to be tracked by scent. OTOH, using the +1 Reaction seems tricky, restricting it to less than 1/6 of all situations. I'm not sure how much less.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Okay, so either I still have some of my super smell or you're on the lower end of human olfactory acuity.
I can't smell forearms anymore, but can detect pit odor from nearly everyone when within one half foot.

And OMG, do heavy meat eater emit stronger odors. That should be obvious to anyone not an anosmiac. But so do eaters of certain plant products like beans, asparagus, broccoli, etc.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I wish people I don't like or know had it. But the scents of loved ones and the familiar are quite comforting.
There certainly is such a thing as comforting stink. My cat Timmay has shoulder blade B.O. but it's cute somehow.
Oddly, losing my super sense of smell has decreased my social phobia. People aren't so unavoidably in my face bombarding my senses anymore. They're just sights and sounds I can ignore or turn away from.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Not what I meant. Let me try again. ^^'

I'm talking about GURPS increments and how a "minor" bonus in GURPS mechanical terms is often more significant in "fluff" terms. The sum total presented by a Sanitized Metabolism (that is, all the areas of your physiology it affects) need to be noticed to be impressive, and that is what close quarters does. "Impressive" perhaps sounding like too strong a term for a mere +1... but in real life it is definitely something you'd notice. Kind of like how an Attribute of 11 in the physical stats is usually not apparent unless you are around the person for a bit.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

In many situations it might act as a supernatural feature like not sweating even in hot weather.

An episode of Monk involved UFO nuts thinking he might be an alien because of his over dressed odd nature coupled with his lack of noticeable sweating.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Indeed. It is an Exotic Physical Perk, is it not? So like any such trait, I think the rules are for where such things are assumed to be accepted. Possessing it in a setting like our own world would probably get you quite a bit of unwanted attention once it was noticed.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Yeah, its odd. I think you have to accept it as a part of the abstraction that RPGs have to engage in. The character gets at +1 because there is less chance of them being inadvertently offensive (which a bad Reaction roll could indicate), above and beyond the assumed effects of hygiene and grooming or off setting any bad habits or incidents they might have had before the encounter. As most games don't go into minutia about the PCs personal hygiene (Did you wash behind ears?) unless its mechanically noteworthy (Bad Smell or Odious Personal Habit, for instance). SM means there's less to go wrong for the character (fewer/no bad smells, missed sweat stains, lingering bad breath from lunch, etc) compared to a character without it. GMs would have to adjudicate the precise reasons and applications.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

A note:
People seem to be overly focused on the sense of smell only. But Sanitised Metabolism, unlike a different Perk, isn't restricted to scent - it includes an explicit mention of a (more) perfect skin, at the very least.

As a comparison, there's the Perfume perk, which just gives '+1 on reaction rolls where a
pleasant smell makes a difference'. So it seems that Perfume has a wider application than Sanitised Metabolism. I'm not sure how to measure either.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Perfume has a wider application with regard to smell, because it means you smell nice. Sanitized Metabolism has a wider application with relation to smell in confined spaces, because it means that you don't smell at all rather than appealing to a preference for a specific smell, and also has applications outside of smell that arguably make it wider in its potential applications overall (eg: even people with no sense of smell can appreciate somebody who never gets pimples).

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Perfume means you smell nice, SM means you don't smell bad. The first is going to appeal to people that enjoy your smell even in open areas. The other is going to make you more pleasant to be around in close quarters and, like you mention, has effects besides smell (no acne or blemishes, no flatulence or body waste smells, sweat stains and scent can overwhelm perfume, etc).

I think the focus on smells comes from the fact that smell is a large social issue for most people. Its more offensive for many to be smelly than disheveled and odor has a greater impact on our reaction than many humans give it credit for. Look at how many hygiene products are focused on reducing, covering up or eliminating body odors.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I've been roleplaying for more than 20 years, and I don't think I've ever applied a penalty to players for doing the things that adventurers do.

Go through your gear list right now. Anybody see soap? A towel? Well, maybe you have a towel, at least it's a sci fi game. But seriously, considering all the time we spend in most games, even modern ones, marching in hot, sweaty armor, fighting, pooping in the woods, etc etc etc, we really should be taking diplomacy penalties.

So yeah it's a mitigated penalty IMO, but it's mitigating a penalty that we never bother to apply. I treat it as equivalent to SOP: Keeps Clean. I even modded the Elf racial template to include it, on the grounds that I've never seen a smelly Elf with bad breath or bad skin.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

/me raises a hand. Towel, soap, grooming kit (expensive, rugged), sewing kit, insect repellent, a set of spare clothes and shoes for each relevant temperature class.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

OMG I knew I shouldn't have asked this on a gurps forum. ;)

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Similar for my D&D characters as a teen. I even made sure to have a bag of munching nuts on hand, especially for large PCs. They don't always have time for a full campfire and hot meals.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I usually have my characters carry some provisions for hygiene if they expect to be wandering away from civilization: soap, some rags which with clean packing can be used for menses with a comb and some perfume or the like at least be little more presentable quickly if need be.

Of course it varies depending on the character's personality.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Speaking of which, I kinda assumed this is included in a grooming kit
('A leather Gladstone, vanity, or toilet
bag holding comb, hairbrush, razor,
toothbrush, soap, aftershave, shoe-
polish kit, etc.')

Then again, minimising the penalties/problems of lacking many of those items is what Sanitized Metabolism does.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

One time I was playing a guy with Obsession (Personal Hygiene) (15-) [-2] in a supers game run by Mark Skarr, and we got into a fight with like 20 guys and some giant sapient gorillas that turned into a ridiculous bloodbath. I rolled exactly 16 on my self control roll, ripped off my clothes, and headed straight for the bathroom while everybody else was trying to perform First Aid on Doug's character and/or scram.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

My housemate has Squeamishness, and it can pop up in unexpected ways some time.
I can't so much as check my blood sugar near her because of the microdot of blood, for example.
Weirdly, I'm the one prone to taking two showers per day. If I try to sleep without having had a shower within an hour or two, I feel as if covered in gritty oil. I feel normal standing up, but the moment I lie down...

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Plus the above is for characters in settings where it isn't just a part of hotel room service. "Gear lists" are usually for what you're actually carrying; bringing such toiletries even knowing the GM is likely to separate you from the supplies back at home or a hotel or even base camp is a luxury we can't afford... and in those games, one is either supposed to waive such concerns or apply them, as the story warrants.

This is another place where Sanitized Metabolism probably should help, though the obscurity doesn't warrant a price hike or the like. If you're an adventurer of some sort and you just haven't had a chance to stay well groomed, the effects are going to be a lot less problematic if you've got a Sanitized Metabolism.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Not sweating won't help if your clothes stink from all remnants of the outside.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I'm not sure why quoted me?

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

It'll make it somewhat less offensive and you can quickly change clothes while bathing often takes more time.

I'd imagined some forms of SM don't mean you don't sweat (which could be debilitating) but your skin lacks of the microbes and your sweat the chemicals that give it an offensive odor (or contain something that neutralizes them).

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Sweat still stinks over time. It's only human pit and crotch sweat that promotes ultra stinky communicative odors.
Cinematic perks usually have unrealistic aspects.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Because you brought up supplies used during menses. At least a few types of those are TL1 or so, but High-Tech doesn't go into that detail (not sure about Low-Tech; Bio-Tech has a Perk, which is a different matter), and some people (particularly some of those who grew up in the USSR) think those were only invented in the late late 1980s.
Thus my comment on 'etc.' in the grooming kit, which includes an assortment of other stuff.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Apparently not if you have Sanitized metabolism.

Not in my experience. Those are the worst but sweaty people get funky after awhile particularly in close quarters even if the take a "Whore's Baths" and hit the the worst spots The microbes on the skin that promote body odor are everywhere but they're densest under the arms, the crotch and feet (moist and little light) but form everywhere and can cluster in some odd places like behind the ears, at the hairline, behind the knees or under folds of fat (or your breasts if well endowed). And some sweat odor comes from the perspiration itself. Generally, (to me) the smell is a little different more sour and musky than the flat our rank funk of underarm and other sweat BO but still unpleasant to be around for very long.

Goes without saying. :)

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Ah okay. I admit I was defaulting to a "D and D" type environment not something modern or futuristic. Not sure why I do that. I haven't even played D and D much at all for decades.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

You know, your post (and a few others) have got me thinking...

What if we grant everyone a +1 reaction bonus if they make a point out of "cleaning up." Right? Like your character has freshly showered and is wearing fresh clothes and put on a bit of deo, brushed their teeth, etc. You might give them a +1 under those circumstances, provided it's appropriate to the circumstances. That seems like a reasonable course of action, if a bit of a simplification.

Sanitized Metabolism, then, becomes a sort of exotic version of a SOP: "Assume I am always clean." The character always gets the +1 in circumstances where being well-groomed and freshly bathed would apply a +1, even if they wouldn't have access to the materials needed to clean themselves (because they are naturally clean and pleasant smelling).

I think I could run it that way.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I'm playing a first ed game right now so it's freshest in my mind. But you're right that modern/scifi games tend to have better hygiene. Which fits with gritty realism but not the cinematic Orlando Bloomesque elven experience many of my players visualize.

That's how I use it already. I suppose you could give people a -1 unless they washed up immediately before, but as a rule I'm against Advantages that introduce new penalties or perils and then you buy the advantage to exempt yourself out. The way you wrote it seems perfect.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

[QUOTE=Flyndaran;1850735Cinematic perks usually have unrealistic aspects.[/QUOTE]

This one isn't even cinematic, it is exotic. So allowing it for a human in even a cinematic campaign wouldn't be the norm. I remember this as a full on Advantage in 3e, first seeing it in Bio-Tech (I think). Doesn't mean that is where it first showed up, just where I first remember seeing it.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Every living thing has an odor. I suppose it's possible to imagine aliens that for some reason never emit particles, but it goes a bit beyond exotic in my opinion. Claws and venom are exotic for humans, but quite mundane compared to excreting small packages of odorless waste.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

As I understood it the Perk doesn't make the character completely odorless. They (and their excretions) don't have a strong and/or unpleasant odor. It is still possible to track them by scent just somewhat more difficult. The Perk probably manifests differently based on what it represents though.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Even if it did make one impossibly odorless, it wouldn't stop targets from leaving trackable particulates from or of clothing or grime.

Still much better than perfume, which I would find to be more of an OPH than perk.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

The Perfume perk means that the scent your body produces is generally accepted as pleasant. Many flowers and fruits would qualify when statted up as characters.

Simply applying perfume I would agree was an OPH. Those chemicals stink, unlike the Perfume perk which gives you a +1 reaction bonus.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

You're risking being found on of those munchkins coming up with annoying 'I treat positive reaction modifiers as annoying, and react to them at an equivalent minues'. If you have Unfazeable (Scent Only), and can ignore the +1 from scents that grant a +1 Reaction against almost everyone, that's a somewhat unusual advantage.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Call me weird, but I dislike the smell of real flowers let alone the almost painful volatiles of synthetic odors. I absolutely loathe the scent of mangoes, and my mom hates bananas.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

My social obliviousness grants me partial immunity to many such reaction modifiers. But PCs are normally allowed to react how they wish, not restrained by mere NPC influence rules.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I lived most of my life being able to identify most people by scent from feet away. That overwhelms my social phobia. I've found now after having lost that ability, my social phobia is a little easier to deal with. I might rage over those physically incapable of staying scent neutral.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

PCs are still affected by Influencing PCs, and it's still bad RP to routinely ignore the setting and its inhabitants.
Also, it doesn't matter what explanation you use for the partial immunity - GURPS cares about effects, not justifications.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

It's a spectrum from choice-less automatons to completely ignoring setting influences. PCs generally sit on one side, while NPCs firmly on the other.

And there are things too fiddly to stat out.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

I agree. I actually prefer games were PCs explicitly aren't immune to social influence or take some penalty from blatantly ignoring successful social actions directed against them. Otherwise it can become largely pointless to even give NPCs social abilities. I've had way too many bad experiences with what you're describing over the years. To be fair though some of it was caused by GMs abusing the social conflicts rules in their games but some was just asinine behavior. Though I do think justifications can matter in play for those fiddly situations that can come up but are too situational to bother statting out.

Re: [SE] Sanitized Metabolism: how useful is +1 in in 'close confines', like 'elevato
 

Okay... you're weird. :D

But Seriously, I think a strong dislike of perfumes is more a Quirk for an individual character than an overall problem. Most people like perfumes, colognes, etc just not people that drench themselves in them or try to use them as a substitute for bathing. The latter would be OPHs.