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-   -   Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=131028)

BraselC5048 12-14-2014 03:33 PM

Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing?
 
Pretty much a simple question, Basic lists -5 to rolls for cold if light or no clothing, and -5 if wet clothing. If it's raining, would it effectively be the same as wet clothing, for -10, or not?

Also, if you are rolling at -10 (50-50 critical failure rate for HT 10), does a critical failure have any greater effects than a regular failure? More fatigue points lost, maybe?

vicky_molokh 12-14-2014 03:38 PM

Re: Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1848106)
Also, if you are rolling at -10 (50-50 critical failure rate for HT 10), does a critical failure have any greater effects than a regular failure? More fatigue points lost, maybe?

I wouldn't enforce special effects on critical failures of a given roll type unless critical successes also provide some special effect on this type of roll in this campaign.

BraselC5048 12-14-2014 08:25 PM

Re: Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 1848108)
I wouldn't enforce special effects on critical failures of a given roll type unless critical successes also provide some special effect on this type of roll in this campaign.

First off, does rain make it count as "wet clothing" if you're wearing "no clothing?" That's the first part of the question.

If not, then there's no reason for a critical failure to be worse, since it's still only -5, at least for my purposes right now.

On the other hand, if it does, and even if it doesn't, then it seems that for an average person, the difference between -5 and -10 cold should be more than 5%. For that matter, light clothing that's wet ought to be worse then light clothing that's not wet by a larger margin than that. Perhaps 2 FP lost on a critical failure? It's just that massively increasing how bad the situation is doesn't make the FP go away any faster once you're already likely going to fail the roll, and that just doesn't quite feel right. It seems that worse cold should make you freeze faster.

malloyd 12-14-2014 10:13 PM

Re: Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1848106)
Pretty much a simple question, Basic lists -5 to rolls for cold if light or no clothing, and -5 if wet clothing. If it's raining, would it effectively be the same as wet clothing, for -10, or not?

I'd say yes, being wet increases the rate of heat transfer, which is the issue here. I'd probably assess it if you were sunk in cold dry dust too. On the plus side, if you are naked, you don't stay significantly wet after the rain stops.

Quote:

Also, if you are rolling at -10 (50-50 critical failure rate for HT 10), does a critical failure have any greater effects than a regular failure? More fatigue points lost, maybe?
Generally if a rule doesn't mention an extra effect on critical success or failure, the author probably didn't think it needed one. Of course you can always add house rules if you like.

Anthony 12-14-2014 10:32 PM

Re: Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by malloyd (Post 1848234)
I'd say yes, being wet increases the rate of heat transfer, which is the issue here. I'd probably assess it if you were sunk in cold dry dust too. On the plus side, if you are naked, you don't stay significantly wet after the rain stops.

Though the high humidity means that being wet probably has less effect when it's raining than when it's drier.

vicky_molokh 12-15-2014 03:23 AM

Re: Cold: Does rain make the -5 for wet clothing apply to no clothing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1848205)
First off, does rain make it count as "wet clothing" if you're wearing "no clothing?" That's the first part of the question.

I have no idea what is the right answer to this question. By the letter of the rules, it shouldn't, because there's no clothing to speak of. By the spirit - I don't know; cold rains means little to no evaporation of water from the skin, and evaporation is one of the sources of feeling colder if wet, but OTOH, new cold water keeps coming and has good thermal conductivity.

I gave my answer to #2 in hopes that the answer to #1 will be resolved eventually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1848205)
If not, then there's no reason for a critical failure to be worse, since it's still only -5, at least for my purposes right now.

On the other hand, if it does, and even if it doesn't, then it seems that for an average person, the difference between -5 and -10 cold should be more than 5%. For that matter, light clothing that's wet ought to be worse then light clothing that's not wet by a larger margin than that. Perhaps 2 FP lost on a critical failure? It's just that massively increasing how bad the situation is doesn't make the FP go away any faster once you're already likely going to fail the roll, and that just doesn't quite feel right. It seems that worse cold should make you freeze faster.

To me, it's a matter of symmetry. If there's nothing extra-good that's supposed to come out of a critical success, then nothing extra-bad should come from a critical failure either. E.g. with Bleeding, a critical failure triples the HP lost at that minute, while a critical success counts as three successes in a row and thus stops bleeding permanently.


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