Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

I think in GURPS, you really don't want to get hung up on the names of Skills any more than you do on the names of Advantages.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

That's pretty decisive, as Shiphandling is specified as not involving any physical activity; you give orders to the guy at the wheel or the rudder or the steering oar. Actually handling the rudder is either an aspect of Boating or an aspect of Crewman. And that means you don't have any separate person in command. So the skill of Shiphandling doesn't apply.

Take just an ordinary rowboat. It can have half a dozen guys at the oars, and maybe one at the rudder, if it has one. But it's pretty obviously Boating. There's nothing in Boating that says it only applies to one-man craft.

Bill Stoddard

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

So basically, if there's a guy in charge who doesn't physically help with ship operations, use Shiphandling/Crewman, but if the guy in charge helps physically, use Boating? That's an easy delineation to make. It might raise some eyebrows when it comes to sailors switching between Boating and Crewman based on if the captain is physically helping or not, but it works nicely for the captain.

Perhaps crewmen should use the better of Crewman or Boating? But that doesn't sit well with a sailor on a nuclear aircraft carrier performing duties with Boating. That break actually seems more problematic than the one between Shiphandling and Boating.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

I used to assume that "boat" means a sailing vehicle that didn't carry auxiliary craft, but that appears not to be correct.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

Boating/Crewman=Operation of the vessel
Shiphandling=Operation of the crew operating the vessel

Might make more sense to think of Shiphandling as Crewhandling. And you can do both at the same time, Shiphandling and Crewman, you just get the "doing two things at once" penalty. IMO, you could have a version of Shiphandling to manage the crew of a multi-oared boat, but I would probably default it to Shiphandling as-is, since they're really accomplishing the same thing.

My 2¢

(Sorry, no references right now.)

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

After rereading the two descriptions, I don't see Seaman applies to small craft - although if it did, it'd make life easier. Boating looks to include Seaman and Shiphandling, where for large vessels, the two are split. Boating does mention that you use Crewman/Shiphandling split when the vessel's "bridge" requires multiple crew and a captain:

Perhaps that is the simple dividing line: when bridge duties get split among multiple people. Perhaps Crewman represents working together and following orders as much as anything. I'm really not sure and am largely just babbling at this point. I'd be curious to see a Krommunication on this matter.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

I'm not sure they do, though; AFAIK on tall ships it's mostly the captain shouting orders and everyone else following them, or the first mate if the captain's asleep or otherwise occupied.
So would I.

That throws a rowing cox back to shiphandling, which several people are arguing against, though. For those who've done competitive rowing, would you say that being a rower is a significantly different skill than being a coxwain?

It's the same break, I think.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

The one arguing against it said it was "aesthetic"—the problem is that we don't have a skill specific to "commanding the crew of a small oar-driven boat," which is remedied one of two ways: use Shiphandling (the closest analogue), or make a new one (which is just going to be a version of Shiphandling). Whichever makes you (non-specific) feel better.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

I've not done competitive rowing, but I've talked to them a fair bit. I'd say there's a default between the skills, because they deal with the same environment and circumstances, but that they are separate. This is partly because the optimum people for them are very different. Rowers are big and strong, and have very high aerobic fitness; there are competitive classes based on their weight, like boxing, though not as complicated. A cox is selected for being small and light: there are often rules setting a minimum weight. The cox's physical effort is minimal, it's an IQ skill.

An important part of the cox's job is to assist the teamwork of the rowers, by keeping the time and advising them during the race: in the usual setup, the cox is the only one who can see all the rowers, and the only one who can see any of their faces. Eight-rower boats are always coxed, and can't coordinate well enough to make good speed without one. Coxless four-rower is a separate event from coxed four-rower and coxless is harder. Two-rower is sometimes coxed, but my impression is that it's just less useful for pairs.

When people start learning to row in fours and eights, the first thing to learn seems to be the teamwork and taking direction from the cox. Every autumn on the River Cam, the sight of eights of freshman students completely failing to coordinate provides free entertainment.

Re: [Low-Tech] Boating vs Shiphandling
 

I did competitive rowing at school, and I'd modify that a little. A team of eight competent oarsmen will take their time from the stroke (the rower closest to the stern), not the cox; the cox will tell him when to take it relatively easy and when to go for a sprint, but the stroke-to-stroke timing is his job.

So without a cox the eight can certainly make good speed, but what it won't do is go in anything like a straight line.