Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

Ehh, it seems like penalty to skill makes it harder to cast than the multiplier does. How many Greater effects are actually in Body of Shadow, anyway? Ruling that one or two are only Lesser in-setting should reduce the cost to something somebody with a base skill of 15 can do, provided they buy a Grimoire from the local magic shop.

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

But a important one. It's a want vs. a need.

I've done this before and will be interested in your play report to see if you had the same experience I did. Keep us posted please.

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

I'm not sure. It just feels like a +4 penalty to casting isn't as significant as the safe threshold penalty for a 350 point spell.

Campaign is on the cusp of the dawning of the age of wizardry. There aren't local magic shops from which people can purchase grimoires. Talahsee (kind of a collective hive-mind society of elves greatly in tune with the world) have shown up and have started teaching men about how to weave magic. Humans, in return, will repay the poor Talahsee with the contagion of individuality, leaving their innocent society in shambles eventually.

So right now, definitely a time of high magic and experimentation. Would-be NPC mages will be screwing up and melting their brains or causing upheaval (adventure plot hooks for the party to resolve) as the two societies come to terms with contact with each other, etc.

There isn't much in the way of magic items, grimoires, and an established tradition of wizardry (yet). The players are playing characters present at this important point in the campaign world's history (It's an old established campaign world from back in my days of 2nd Edition D&D and those old Skills and Powers books).

The TL is at the end of TL2, with just a few TL3 things starting to show up.

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

You can always allow somebody who created a ritual to write a grimoire, or, at least a scroll on it. You can even make creating new rituals more risky by ruling that ALL effects in an improvised ritual are Greater until it succeeds. If one of the PCs comes up with something on their own, let them write the grimoire/scroll. They should still be picky about who they share with, though...

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

I generally don't follow RPM threads all too often - and I apologize if someone else has mentioned this idea. However, this thread sort of touches upon something I've observed with GURPS 4e. In the past, players have commented upon the fact that certain things in GURPS were too cheap for effects they had on play. I've noted however, the reverse is now also true in that certain things are too costly (in the eyes of my players) for the effects granted by any given advantage. Perfect case in point was the "turn undead" capability from the old D&D campaigns (by old - I'm talking about the little white box/brown books version on up through at least AD&D). When my wife saw just how much the "advantage" cost for the campaign in question, she said "No" in about three seconds after my explanation of the advantage. Likewise, if certain spells are TOO costly in energy, then perhaps what is needed is a bit of "fine tuning". Currently, based upon a quick read of GURPS THAUMATOLOGY RITUAL PATH MAGIC, it appears that the energy cost multiplier for spells could be written as:

1 + GEP*2 where GEP is Greater Effects Present.

So, why not tweak the formula to something like this:

1 + MEP*1 + GEP*2 where MEP is Moderate Effects Present, GEP is Greater Effects Present, and then create a new category of effects where the Moderate Effect is midway between a Greater Effect and Lesser Effect?

This way, the GM can redefine what precisely is a Moderate Effect as they see fit for their campaign, while retaining the ability to say that the Moderate Effect is better than Lesser Effect, but that the Greater Effect makes things even more dangerous or more costly energy wise or what have you.

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

Not sure what you are saying here. Is it a +4 to skill or effective skill? The first can be pretty significant.

Neat.

You know what I'd do? I'd make things random. Maybe something like before you roll to cast, make a Thuamatology check at a penalty equal to the base energy cost / 10. Success means the spell works exactly like it's supposed to for the campaign. Success with a margin of the penalty or greater means you can knock off one Greater effect for that casting only (e.g., if you have to roll Thaumatology-2 for a spell, succeeding by two means you can ignore one Greater effect for that spell's casting). Failure means you treat it as if it had a extra Greater effect. Critical failure has it's usual effects, but treat the total energy of the spell as if it had two Greater effects more than normal. Critical success works as a success but also allows you to instantly purchase the Shortcut to Power or Secret Spell perk for that ritual. This way, characters are going to want to buy more Thaumatology than just their Path skill level.

So make "naturally occuring" grimoires possible. In my article The Old Ways in Pyramid #3/56: Prehistory I talk about TL0 "grimoires" which can be anything from a crystal to a wooden branch. Maybe such grimoires "harmonize" with a particular spell(s).

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

Sounds like Materia from FF7. To borrow an element from FF6 as well, you could have spirits be the holders of ancient knowledge. They may infuse objects with these arcane secrets, or perhaps the spirits themselves can be bound to an object. The latter could be pretty interesting... a wizard may have to negotiate with his grimoire before casting a spell!

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

So, "Body of Shadow" specifically is a spell you want to make easier to cast? Then do so -- if you're the GM, just declare that it uses Lesser Effects rather than Greater Ones. That'll make it significantly cheaper.

Remember, the divide between Lesser and Greater is always up to the GM and should be tweaked to fit the setting.

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

I agree with OP about that spell being ridiculously overpriced. Why is turning into a shadow for a very short time anywhere near the value of anything else of 350 energy?
You could raise the dead with that.

Re: [RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)
 

Well I understand the mechanical reasons why Shadow Form is a 50 point CP power. The really high cost in RPM is because of the multipliers. As has been pointed out here by lots of kind folk, there is multiple ways a spell could be built. Even just making one of the two paths Lesser (perhaps in one world it's a Greater Transform Matter to break the body down, but maybe only a Lesser Transform Energy to make it shadow and it goes from 350 CP to 210 CP. 210 sounds high, but I'd definately agree its a lot more approachable than 350 CP.

If both were a Lesser Effect, it's now hovering at only 70CP.

All the advice I've gotten so far has been really awesome.

It's definitely heading there. The Talahsee that the town is interacting with are incredibly powerful at magic. They can shape, weave, and create god-level magic on the fly - they don't worry about needing to pulling in and storing ambient energy at all. The humans they attempt to teach are finding they simply can't work magic that way, being slower at it (channeling in multiple minutes only small amounts of energy at a time, being restricted to a bunch of Path Skills, etc). One of the NPC students, a talented mage by the name of Midarne has been adapting a magical short-hand of symbols to represent concepts and practices that turn up a lot. He believes that it is possible for humans to prepare magic ahead of time (charms, basically fluffed differently I think) and record combinations of magic down in like a recipe (grimoires are where I planned on going with this).