Single usage versions of skills?
 

I'm wondering about reduced point cost versions of skills that only allow a few things a character can do with them. I had two in mind; first is Electrician for the sole purpose of the types of things a thief would be interested in, such as cutting power and the like. There's no way you could possibly build or repair something, and in all likelihood you don't even know what tools to use.

Personally, I'm thinking this might end up being wrapped up under something along the lines of Solder skill (from GURPS:WWII), that has far less equipment usage but much more in the way of tactics (in fact it's mostly tactics, but mainly not for combat use). IQ/Average sounds a little cheep, IQ/Hard seems a little expensive. Considering Tactics (Police) is IQ/Hard, it would probably have to be that. On the other hand, it might just be Tactics (Thief).

The second is Judo that only is usable for escaping from a grapple, and nothing else (it's Karate instead for everything else, a very no-grappling style that encourages immediately trying to break away). Basically, it's a way to improve that roll from a plain quick contest of ST, and just about everybody who knows the style is going to be at a disadvantage ST-wise.

EDIT: What skills/techniques exactly can you improve to help with trying to break free from a grapple? Anything?

I'm thinking perhaps treating the second one as a technique for point cost, but using attributes rather then a skill, and can be bought up past attribute level.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

That's a textbook One-Task Wonder perk; see GURPS Power-Ups 2: Perks, p. 17. If you need to be able to improve it, though, go with an optional specialty (pp. B169-170).

That's basically a Skill Adaptation perk (also GURPS Power-Ups 2: Perks, p. 17). GURPS Martial Arts offers an example, Clinch, that lets you use a striking skill for a specific kind of grappling. This is in the same ballpark.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Err, just read the grappling section again in Campaigns, and it doesn't actually say anything about being able to use Judo, or any other skill, instead of ST.

So the bigger question is, can any skill help with trying to break free from a grapple? That's pretty much the only grappling thing I'm interested in here, and if you're ST 10, even Flexible isn't enough to deal with somebody who is ST 14 grabbing with two hands. What exactly can you do to improve your odds (other then more ST)

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Learning Wrestling will help a bit; it can give up to +2 to ST here. GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling extends this some. Ultimately, though, low-ST characters deal with grappling by having high defenses and not getting grappled. Once they're grappled, ST is king and skill won't help all that much.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

At GMs option, some advantages can be explained as trained skills. The most obvious one is slippery.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Technical Grappling introduces Break Free as a technique that can be improved (with a Technique Mastery perk). It also works somewhat differently than breaking free in Basic, and would be prime suspect for Skill Adaptation.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Yeah, this would be a good combo. Skill Adaptation to your striking skill, then Technique Mastery to get to up to your skill+4. Fair warning: if you're very skilled but have low Trained ST, you will "succeed" in your break free attempts often, but remove very few Control Points with each success. And Karate and Boxing use the Slow progression for Control Points, so "getting good at escaping using Karate" should be looked at very carefully compared and contrasted with "low levels of Sumo Wrestling with Technique Mastery for Break free," since the Trained ST bonus is better.

I believe you have just inspired a blog post.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

That seems like the best route for Basic combat. If you want, you could allow it with a limitation (only for escaping grapples). Call that a -50% limitation and it'll cost the same 1/level a technique does and thus should be more or less balanced against characters who have taken some more complex Martial Arts path with Unique Technique.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

From Technical Grappling:

Slippery
see p. B85

Every two levels of Slippery add one point of Control Resistance (see p. 27), in addition to the effects in the Basic Set. This affects both you and your opponent, as if you were sweaty or oiled (see Sweat, Clothing, and Armor, pp. 7-8). When attacking to break free or attempting to use the Escape skill, every two levels give +1 to CP rolled.

See Claws (p. 27) and Teeth (below) for interaction with those traits.

Special Enhancement

Affects Others Only: The Control Resistance imparted by this trait does not affect your own grappling, only that of your foe! +100%.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

This would meet the reality test. Really th Best way to learn how to counter grappling techniques is simply to learn how to grapple. But that doesn't stop some striking styles from teaching "anti-grappling."

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

I wrote this up, and it will appear in a Melee Academy article next Thursday. Sorry for the wait, but others like to play too.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Actually, if the only thing in here is for a professional thief to be able to cut the power or phone lines, or avoid electrical hazards, I'd be inclined to say it's included in your Traps/TL6+ skill already.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Personally, I would think that a ST 10, Karate 18, Acrobatics 18+, Flexible guy would be at a slight advantage vs. a ST 14-5, Brawling 12-13 guy or perhaps even with Wrestling 10-11 guy. Now against equal skill - no way at all. But I would think he could create enough leverage to wrench free, even if he has to put his whole body weight into it - with Flexible, ST 14 guy will have something break/hurt before ST 10 guy.

Two questions - what happens with a successful sweep if you're grappled? Any way to end up standing while he's on the ground, not being grappled? Also, do you know if he's going for a grapple before you roll your active defenses, so you can use your retreat/acrobatic dodge/extra effort on that one?

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Personally I think a guy with Karate 18 and ST 10 is extremely unlikely to occur in the real world. The amount of training required to reach skill 18 (or a suitably high Dex) is going to result in a not-inconsiderable amount of muscle mass and an even more significant amount of usable strength.

Unless you have a very small frame to begin with.

That said, mass plays a HUGE role in the outcome of fights, and grappling tends to magnify the importance of size and strength.

In the early days of UFC, Royce Gracie used his superior grappling skill to defeat much bigger and stronger strikers, and there have been plenty of times when a smaller, more skilled striker beat bigger stronger strikers (Daniel Mendoza, for example), but I've never seen a smaller skilled striker who can defeat bigger stronger grapplers.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

The answer to this one is yes. The GM should be declaring the nature of the attack before you declare your defenses.

However, keep in mind that a successful Judo Parry or Leg Grapple can initiate a grapple without attacking to grab (or a Grabbing Parry from Technical Grappling).

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

If someone strong gets hands on someone weak, unless the weak person has rather high skill in grappling or breaking free, it's going to end poorly for them - because there isn't much of anything they can actually do. Sure, the ST 14 guy has less "room" to avoid injury, but the ST 10 one is unlikely to be able to cause much damage because the ST 14 guy is a whole heck of a lot stronger. Do note that if the weaker character has DX 10 or 11, he would effectively have ST 12 for grappling purposes according to Technical Grappling, due to his high Karate skill. In a cinematic campaign, Acrobatics might also give a Training bonus to grappling ST (in any campaign, it should probably do so for purposes of acrobatic actions, like pull-ups and the like), although you can only use the highest bonus.

If you successfully break free while doing the sweep, yes. If you fail to do so, your foe still has a grip on you, which will either result in him staying up (using you for balance) or both of you falling down.

Characters are automatically aware of a lot of things that are going on, so letting them know the general nature of the attack they are facing doesn't seem far off.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

On a related note, has anyone considered allowing Escape skill to escape a grapple?

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

I talked about this sort of training-specific ST in Trained ST and Striking, an old blog post.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

I'm with you on Grabbing Parry - that's what it's for - but just from memory, I think Judo Parry is only the defense, and Leg Grapple (or a regular Judo grapple) are required to achieve a grappled state following a Judo Parry.

A Judo Throw only retains a grapple if you start with one, as well.

Can you hit up evidence (there well may be some) that a Judo Parry obtains a grapple?

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

I considered it when I wrote TG, and "formally" disallowed it. Escape is the skill of getting out of fixed restraints, not actively maintained people trying to twist you into a pretzel. The time scale is also all wrong, at one minute per attempt.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Technical Grappling, p. 11:

Impossible Positions
If you perform any action that changes your or your opponent’s
posture or position such that a grapple is no longer
physically possible – due to reach, facing, relative facing, or
orientation – then you and your foe must release your grip(s);
see p. 24.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Nope, I think I was flat out wrong. Just mis-remembering and not bothering to double check.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

That's pretty nice. I've toyed around with that too, but in a less neat and easy way.

My theory (supported by my martial arts training) is that a large part of training in striking is learning how to hit with the whole body, not just the arm.

This is most important for unarmed striking, and least important for fencing weapons (it doesn't take much force to push a sharp point through unarmored flesh.)

My house rule is this:

I've yet to play test it, however.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

So, if you succeed at a sweep, you're free? Any examples of other ways to get into impossible positions?

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Yes, if you manage to sweep your foe while you're grappled, accepting the penalties to skill and ST involved, and since your foe can spend Control Points to make you lose, he will have to let go.

If you throw a foe and want to retain a grapple but be standing there're probably courting impossible positions.

It's a GM discretionary tool to help adjudicate WTF moments.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Umm, does that mean he can or can't spend control points to make your sweep fail? If he doesn't have a hold on your legs, then the -4 DX penalty doesn't seem to apply. So at default it would be (in the example above) sweep 15 vs ST of of 14-15. If he's got you be the leg, you're in much worse shape.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

He can definitely spend points to make your sweep fail. No matter where he's grappling you unless it's the hands or feet only, he's adjacent to the head and torso that defines a "whole-body" move according to the rules.

If you're using TG, then that generic -4 to DX is no more, so mix and match doesn't make sense. It sounds to me, though I could be wrong, that you don't have TG. In which case I really can't discuss details with you - not out of any profit seeking, but it's pointless to do so unless you have context, and without the book,you don't.

A sweep isn't necessarily targeted at the legs, by the way. A canonical move in the book that qualifies is the very aikido-like clothesline (irminage, I believe) and that is the farthest thing from a leg grapple you can imagine.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

No, I don''t have TG.

Really, Wrestling 13, maybe 14, is the best grappling skill the character's going to come up against - it's TL 7, pre-martial arts craze, mostly in the US and Europe. With Dodge 12, and acrobatic dodges and extra effort available, often the skill being used against the character doesn't matter all that much. Judo is pretty much not going to be encountered except perhaps during a junket to southeast Asia, although Boxing and Wrestling will be somewhat common. The thing is, there aren't really large numbers of people who actually have comparable levels of any melee skill at TL 7.

Which generally makes TL 7 an easier environment for unarmed fighters relying on dodge then say TL 3 - the most dangerous things are armor you'll hurt yourself on, and anybody with enough skill to make a decent deceptive attack - neither are that common at high TL's. Firearms aren't that big of a deal, for characters relying on dodge, since dodging them is no harder then dodging anything else. Except automatic weapons. And shotguns. Really, one person with high skill is more dangerous then a couple people with Brawling 12.

What I'm looking for is a rules-simple way to make breaking free from a bigger, stronger guy (but likely worse-trained by a large margin) somewhat more likely, particularly if it's in a one-turn and get your defenses back so you don't get clobbered by his buddies way.

Really though, with around 8 HP you're going down in one good hit anyway, and grappling is probably the least likely thing to fail dodge against. Most of the time he'll end up grappled is in the pre-rolling dice stage, generally due to a specific (GM created) situation - he already had a hold on you before it turned into a fight. Of course, the other guy might get a -2 or more for surprise, particularly if he wasn't expecting a fight.

If it's just an arm around you, with a 2.00 basic speed advantage at least, if you start it he might not even realize to hold on before you're free, so I would assume breaking free would be at a big bonus, perhaps -4 or more.

Is there anything that would particularly apply to a "get your arm off of me right now" into a 2 turn fight in TG? (break free-dodge-one good hit and he gets the message)

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

one-arm grapples suck in TG.

If you're looking for a bit more fine-grain in your fights and options, well . . . I'm the author. I'm biased. Ask others. Ghostdancer and Kallatari and Peter have all used TG in games.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

YES. THEY DO. I had to hear about that today from one of my players when she decided she wanted to grab a hellhound and choke it out with one hand while focusing a spell at another target. It worked because she rolled crazy good...but only barely. You have to be stupid strong to pull it off. One option I've considered is offering a enhancement to ST that allows you to use it fully for even one-handed grapples, chokes, etc. Probably at around +50% or so.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

So, just a teensy bit on the cinematic side...

I'm guessing TG doesn't spend a lot of word count on the uses of Compartmentalized Mind in grappling fights.

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 

Dude, most of my games are "cinematic" and it does nothing to detract from the detail of Technical Grappling or how deadly it can get. I'm not even using the double CP rule for cinematic games. One-handed grapples/chokes are hard to pull off, period. Neck Snap via the legs is a favored move of one player - especially after she read Doug's Technical Natasha post (which I asked him to do for her to begin with). She's playing a supernatural creature with some strength on her this time...but she still can't do one-handed grabs easily.