Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Single usage versions of skills? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=126622)

DouglasCole 06-17-2014 02:17 PM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23 (Post 1775999)
This would meet the reality test. Really th Best way to learn how to counter grappling techniques is simply to learn how to grapple. But that doesn't stop some striking styles from teaching "anti-grappling."

I wrote this up, and it will appear in a Melee Academy article next Thursday. Sorry for the wait, but others like to play too.

malloyd 06-18-2014 10:24 AM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 1775648)
That's a textbook One-Task Wonder perk; see GURPS Power-Ups 2: Perks, p. 17. If you need to be able to improve it, though, go with an optional specialty (pp. B169-170).

Actually, if the only thing in here is for a professional thief to be able to cut the power or phone lines, or avoid electrical hazards, I'd be inclined to say it's included in your Traps/TL6+ skill already.

BraselC5048 06-18-2014 10:45 PM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Personally, I would think that a ST 10, Karate 18, Acrobatics 18+, Flexible guy would be at a slight advantage vs. a ST 14-5, Brawling 12-13 guy or perhaps even with Wrestling 10-11 guy. Now against equal skill - no way at all. But I would think he could create enough leverage to wrench free, even if he has to put his whole body weight into it - with Flexible, ST 14 guy will have something break/hurt before ST 10 guy.

Two questions - what happens with a successful sweep if you're grappled? Any way to end up standing while he's on the ground, not being grappled? Also, do you know if he's going for a grapple before you roll your active defenses, so you can use your retreat/acrobatic dodge/extra effort on that one?

aesir23 06-19-2014 09:19 AM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1776657)
Personally, I would think that a ST 10, Karate 18, Acrobatics 18+, Flexible guy would be at a slight advantage vs. a ST 14-5, Brawling 12-13 guy or perhaps even with Wrestling 10-11 guy.

Personally I think a guy with Karate 18 and ST 10 is extremely unlikely to occur in the real world. The amount of training required to reach skill 18 (or a suitably high Dex) is going to result in a not-inconsiderable amount of muscle mass and an even more significant amount of usable strength.

Unless you have a very small frame to begin with.

That said, mass plays a HUGE role in the outcome of fights, and grappling tends to magnify the importance of size and strength.

In the early days of UFC, Royce Gracie used his superior grappling skill to defeat much bigger and stronger strikers, and there have been plenty of times when a smaller, more skilled striker beat bigger stronger strikers (Daniel Mendoza, for example), but I've never seen a smaller skilled striker who can defeat bigger stronger grapplers.

aesir23 06-19-2014 09:24 AM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1776657)
Also, do you know if he's going for a grapple before you roll your active defenses, so you can use your retreat/acrobatic dodge/extra effort on that one?

The answer to this one is yes. The GM should be declaring the nature of the attack before you declare your defenses.

However, keep in mind that a successful Judo Parry or Leg Grapple can initiate a grapple without attacking to grab (or a Grabbing Parry from Technical Grappling).

Varyon 06-19-2014 09:51 AM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1776657)
Personally, I would think that a ST 10, Karate 18, Acrobatics 18+, Flexible guy would be at a slight advantage vs. a ST 14-5, Brawling 12-13 guy or perhaps even with Wrestling 10-11 guy. Now against equal skill - no way at all. But I would think he could create enough leverage to wrench free, even if he has to put his whole body weight into it - with Flexible, ST 14 guy will have something break/hurt before ST 10 guy.

If someone strong gets hands on someone weak, unless the weak person has rather high skill in grappling or breaking free, it's going to end poorly for them - because there isn't much of anything they can actually do. Sure, the ST 14 guy has less "room" to avoid injury, but the ST 10 one is unlikely to be able to cause much damage because the ST 14 guy is a whole heck of a lot stronger. Do note that if the weaker character has DX 10 or 11, he would effectively have ST 12 for grappling purposes according to Technical Grappling, due to his high Karate skill. In a cinematic campaign, Acrobatics might also give a Training bonus to grappling ST (in any campaign, it should probably do so for purposes of acrobatic actions, like pull-ups and the like), although you can only use the highest bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1776657)
Two questions - what happens with a successful sweep if you're grappled? Any way to end up standing while he's on the ground, not being grappled?

If you successfully break free while doing the sweep, yes. If you fail to do so, your foe still has a grip on you, which will either result in him staying up (using you for balance) or both of you falling down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraselC5048 (Post 1776657)
Also, do you know if he's going for a grapple before you roll your active defenses, so you can use your retreat/acrobatic dodge/extra effort on that one?

Characters are automatically aware of a lot of things that are going on, so letting them know the general nature of the attack they are facing doesn't seem far off.

Gnome 06-19-2014 10:05 AM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
On a related note, has anyone considered allowing Escape skill to escape a grapple?

DouglasCole 06-19-2014 12:06 PM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23 (Post 1776759)
Personally I think a guy with Karate 18 and ST 10 is extremely unlikely to occur in the real world. The amount of training required to reach skill 18 (or a suitably high Dex) is going to result in a not-inconsiderable amount of muscle mass and an even more significant amount of usable strength.

I talked about this sort of training-specific ST in Trained ST and Striking, an old blog post.

DouglasCole 06-19-2014 12:11 PM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23 (Post 1776761)
The answer to this one is yes. The GM should be declaring the nature of the attack before you declare your defenses.

However, keep in mind that a successful Judo Parry or Leg Grapple can initiate a grapple without attacking to grab (or a Grabbing Parry from Technical Grappling).

I'm with you on Grabbing Parry - that's what it's for - but just from memory, I think Judo Parry is only the defense, and Leg Grapple (or a regular Judo grapple) are required to achieve a grappled state following a Judo Parry.

A Judo Throw only retains a grapple if you start with one, as well.

Can you hit up evidence (there well may be some) that a Judo Parry obtains a grapple?

DouglasCole 06-19-2014 12:13 PM

Re: Single usage versions of skills?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnome (Post 1776772)
On a related note, has anyone considered allowing Escape skill to escape a grapple?

I considered it when I wrote TG, and "formally" disallowed it. Escape is the skill of getting out of fixed restraints, not actively maintained people trying to twist you into a pretzel. The time scale is also all wrong, at one minute per attempt.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.