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-   -   Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=124363)

Michael Thayne 03-24-2014 02:09 AM

Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Discussions of Cosmic give a lot of attention to modifiers for attacks and defenses. But if you're using Cosmic as a power modifier, you'll have it on everything, not just your combat abilities. So what else does Cosmic (particularly the lowly +50% version) do? Here's my attempt to aggregate answers from across Powers, Power-Ups 4, and other sources:
  • Create: Create "essential" elements (Powers p. 94).
  • Destiny, Luck, Serendipity, and Super Luck: Can counter attacks with Cosmic, Privileged Attack. Can also be used to evade the "coincidences must be plausible" restriction on Serendipity (both of these are from PU4, p. 7).
  • Detect: Implied by Kromm to penetrate non-Cosmic Obscure here.
  • Enhanced Move: Many uses, see Supers pp. 26-27 and 53, and PU4 p. 9.
  • Healing: Counters the "lingering effect" and "unhealing damage" versions of Cosmic (PU4, p. 8).
  • Insubstantiality: Can only be blocked by Cosmic barrier (Powers p. 21). And only harmed by Cosmic attacks?
  • Invisibility: Can only be seen by cosmic vision (Powers p. 21).
  • Modular Abilities: Arguably should give freebie Cosmic, +50% to advantages bought with Modular Abilities points ("Apply the power modifier to the Modular Abilities themselves but not the traits they’re rearranged into (doing both is double-counting" - Powers p. 64).
  • Morph: With Improvised Forms, you can get traits that don't even exist in your game world! (Powers p. 75)
  • Payload: Hammerspace! (Powers p. 76)
  • Regeneration: Regeneration (Cosmic) is part of the resurrection build introduced in Powers (p. 151), and also used in Divine Favor. Cosmic Regeneration also works against Cosmic unhealing damage (PU4, p. 8).
  • See Invisible: Defeats all power-based invisibility (Powers p. 73).
  • Snatcher: Items don't have to obey local laws of physics (PU4, p. 7).
  • Unkillable: Unkillable 1 (Cosmic) is part of the resurrection build introduced in Powers (p. 151), and also used in Divine Favor.
This is a pretty decent list, but it's still only a fraction of what's out there. It's enough to extrapolate, though. Cosmic senses penetrate things that would block them. Cosmic Warp can be inferred to block barriers to normal Warp, just like Insubstantiality. Any other healing ability out there (Regrowth? Leech?) can help you heal from things you wouldn't otherwise be able to heal from. Would be fun to think up answers to the less obvious cases, but I'm tired, so I'll leave that to the forum, or to myself tomorrow...

malloyd 03-24-2014 03:44 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 1741184)
Discussions of Cosmic give a lot of attention to modifiers for attacks and defenses. But if you're using Cosmic as a power modifier, you'll have it on everything, not just your combat abilities.

They aren't the same thing. That is while you could take the Cosmic enhancement for an ability with the Cosmic power source, you don't have to, and certainly don't get it for free. The enhancement is badly named, call it Rules Modification instead if it bothers you.

Peter Knutsen 03-24-2014 05:36 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by malloyd (Post 1741197)
They aren't the same thing. That is while you could take the Cosmic enhancement for an ability with the Cosmic power source, you don't have to, and certainly don't get it for free. The enhancement is badly named, call it Rules Modification instead if it bothers you.

The OP's point is that GURPS Powers refer to the fact that some worlds have "tiered" powers, with some power types simply being of a higher tier than others, this being represented by widespread use of the Cosmic Power Enhancement instead of (or in addition to) the traditional (-10% or so) Power Limitation.

Both Ars Magica's Mythic Europe setting, and my somewhat similar Ärth setting, have this, with the Divine type of magic trumping lesser forms of magic, such as Magic/Arcane, Infernal/Satanic and Faerie/Pagan.

Sunrunners_Fire 03-24-2014 05:43 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by malloyd (Post 1741197)
They aren't the same thing. That is while you could take the Cosmic enhancement for an ability with the Cosmic power source, you don't have to, and certainly don't get it for free. The enhancement is badly named, call it Rules Modification instead if it bothers you.

The rules-as-written disagree. You can take a Cosmic Enhancement without also taking the Cosmic Power Modifier, but taking the Cosmic Power Modifier is effectively free if you are also taking a Cosmic enhancement valued at +50% or higher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURPS Powers, pg 101
Cosmic as a Power Modifier: At the +50% level, Cosmic is often a power modifier (see p. 26). On abilities with this modifier, reduce the total cost of all Cosmic options by +50%. In effect, the first +50% of Cosmic is built in.


Sunrunners_Fire 03-24-2014 05:51 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 1741184)
So what else does Cosmic (particularly the lowly +50% version) do?

Act as a power modifier, for the most part, which allows the traits to trump non-Cosmic powers, ignore non-Cosmic countermeasures and be always available (even ignoring other Cosmic powers that attempt to neutralize it).

Otherwise, I'd try to slot in one of the following (from GURPS Power-Ups 4): Avoiding Drawbacks, Defensive, No Rule of 16 or Privileged Attack.
... assuming any of them are appropriate ...

Michael Thayne 03-24-2014 10:13 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire (Post 1741213)
Act as a power modifier, for the most part, which allows the traits to trump non-Cosmic powers, ignore non-Cosmic countermeasures and be always available (even ignoring other Cosmic powers that attempt to neutralize it).

So what are other examples of "countermeasures"?

Quote:

Otherwise, I'd try to slot in one of the following (from GURPS Power-Ups 4): Avoiding Drawbacks, Defensive, No Rule of 16 or Privileged Attack.
... assuming any of them are appropriate ...
Yes. The thing is, the latter three are straightforward. But what are other things to do with "Avoiding Drawbacks"?

Anders 03-24-2014 10:15 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Clairvoyance without the need to Concentrate and make an IQ roll to change viewpoint? Not sure that's worth 50 points, though.

Michael Thayne 03-24-2014 11:34 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders (Post 1741276)
Clairvoyance without the need to Concentrate and make an IQ roll to change viewpoint? Not sure that's worth 50 points, though.

That seems too much to do with a +50% modifier, given that it's +100% just to automatically succeed on the IQ roll, and a lot of levels of Reduced Time to forgo a whole minute of concentration.

Michael Thayne 03-24-2014 11:55 AM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
On other idea: it makes sense that normally "telepathic" abilities (Mind Reading, Mind Probe, etc.) would work Digital Minds and things that would normally be the wrong "type" to be affected by them. This would include being able to use Empathy on animals, demons, etc. This would be like a slightly better version of Cybernetic, and the rationale for protecting Digital Minds from telepathy has as much to do with the lore around "telepathy" as anything—it makes sense that Cosmic powers wouldn't recognize distinctions between types of minds. Of course, to overcome explicit defenses like Mind Shield or Resistant, you still need the +300% version of Cosmic.

Michael Thayne 03-24-2014 02:03 PM

Re: Ways for non-combat advantages to benefit from Cosmic
 
Hmmm... okay, this has gotten me thinking about ideas for stock abilities that would be part of a Cosmic power. (Many are based on abilities from GURPS: Psionic Powers, but if I were using them in a campaign I'd assume no skills were actually involved.)

Cosmic Step
70+ Points
As Autoteleport (GURPS: Psionic Powers), but replace Reliable +10 with Cosmic, No Die Roll Required (calculate effective IQ normally, but automatically succeed as long as effective IQ is 3+). Also, abilities and technology that block normal teleportation are ineffective against Cosmic Step.

Mindsense
72+ Points
By concentrating, you automatically know of the presence of any sentient minds (IQ 6+, regardless of whether they are biological, artificial, supernatural, etc.) in the vicinity, excluding ones you know about, out to the range at which standard range penalties would reduce your effective sense roll below 3. Once you detect a mind, you can follow up with True Telepathy This sense can only be blocked by a Cosmic version of Obscure. The most basic version of the ability is Detect Sentience (Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100%; Lock-On, +50%; Selective Effect, +20%; Vague, -50%) [72], but more powerful versions are possible.

Neo-Morph
150 Points + maximum value of forms assumed
This is Morph (Cosmic, can take traits that don't exist in the game world, +50%; Improvised Forms, +100%; Universal, +50%; Cannot Memorize Forms, -50%; Flawed, -10%; Immediate Preparation Required, 8 Hours, -90%) [150]. Though eight hours of careful work, you can completely replace your racial template with something of your own invention. You can completely change your body composition, adding or subtracting Diffuse or Insubstantiality, or even adopt traits that don't exist (yet!) in your game world. Performing this change in lesser time is a common Power Stunt.

True Sight
38 Points
You automatically penetrate, without needing to roll, any powers-based visual deceptions within your line of sight.

Universal Telepathy
Varies
This is a whole collection of abilities that would normally be part of the Telepathy power. Add Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100% and Sentient Minds Only, -10%. These abilities work on any mind that could be detected by Mindsense (non-sentient minds are excluded, because beings with Cosmic powers rarely consider them powerful enough to bother learning to interact with them). With some abilities, such as Empathy, success is automatic; with others, a Quick Contest is required, but treat a failed roll as a success with margin 0. Adding No Rule of 16 is a common power stunt (see Powers) when using these abilities against powerful minds.


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