Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

Hey all!

I'm looking at setting up an Old West game, and noticed in GURPS Update a couple skills that sound cool. I'd like to read about them.

Apparently, they were located (according to Kromm's 3E list) in a book abbreviated BY. (As in BY page 45).

I cannot see to located what book corresponds to this code. Can you help a cowboy (or more likely a vaquero) out?

As an aside, I'm planning to keep some old 3e skills in my game as well because I like the names better: Equestrian Acrobatics, Flint Sparking, Telegraphy (much better than Electronics Operation/TL5 (communications).

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

I'm not sure which book BY was, but they're also in Compendium I. Hope that helps.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

Flint sparking was part of the endless proliferation of GURPS skills that grew to make character design insanely complex. Making it an application of Survival (or Housekeeping) strikes me as a change for the better. Adding a skill that does things already covered by two other skills, and that really only does one thing, seems kind of inelegant as far as rules design goes.

I suppose you could keep it alive as a technique if you really like the name. There are rules for it in the new edition of GURPS Low-Tech, on p. 35. Or you could make it a Hobby Skill for an early anthropologist.

Bill Stoddard

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

The official Abbreviations for GURPS Titles list is still accessible, BY is not on that list!?

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

I just looked; it is not.

Come to think of it, I don't see any books on that list remotely matching what it could be.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

I've been wondering, what skill would one use in 4e for various forms of signalling and communications which don't rely on electronics?

In my fantasy campaign, one mage who is heavily into fire magics also likes to fly around. Using Gesture skill, he can send various simple messages to anyone in range to see him, which is a surprisingly long distance when he's flying, on fire and the spotter is using Keen Vision, Hawk Vision and, if appropriate, Infravision or Dark Vision.

If the PCs want to develop a more complex messaging system, what skills do they use? There are no electronics in use, but a system of telegraphy could be developed...

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

A Search on the SJG site does find Kromm's List of Ads, Disads and Skills which would appear to be where the OP got the references.

BY page references are also listed for Familiars and Were-Forms (Advanced Rules)

BY might have applied to Bestiary (listed as BE now), but the preview/table of contents for the latest 3e Edition has Prehistoric Animals on page 45 (so a reference to Bulldancing seems unlikely) - perhaps an older edition.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

We added the skill of Machine Operation, in parallel to Electronics Operation, for GURPS Underground Adventures, to cover purely mechanical devices. Complex devices such as heliographs could be covered by that.

Beyond that, a short list of signals with stereotyped meanings could be covered by Soldier or Crewman, or, as you suggest, by Gesture. A fully flexible system comparable to Morse code, or to the British navy's use of flags to spell things out, is effectively a new system of writing in a different medium. The closest parallel I can see in existing canon is Shorthand, which is defined in LTC1 as a perk.

Bill Stoddard

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

Sounds like the equivalent of semaphore to me, but I'm not sure what skill that uses.
My copy hasn't got either of those skills, and the new skills it does have are on p.53. As a note to the OP, Bulldancing is hugely out of place in a Wild West game; it is not a skill native to the milieu.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

"BY" was a pre-standardization abbreviation for GURPS Bestiary. Note well that there were multiple editions of that book with rather different interior arrangements . . . do not trust any reference you can't verify book in hand. At any rate, both of these would be Sports skills in Fourth Edition.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

Wow - thanks for the rapid replies, excellent advice, and friendly discussion. I've been away from these forums for a LONG time, and I forgot how helpful folks here are. So thanks!

(I became a Savage for five+ years, but I'm getting burned out on the system and wanted to try something with a lot of fine distinction, easy dice mechanics, and lethality - GURPS was it.)

I'm planning to run the Boot Hill module Burned Bush Wells, and although I love the simplicity of Boot Hill, I wanted some more detailed. I'm not sure yet. It takes and hour or two the generate a PC, which is tiresome. But I have a feeling it will pay off.

One I got one of the line-riders written up with skills useful for the period, a lot of it became copy/paste. I then can add some skills for "flavor".

EDIT: God only knows, the PCs will find SOME WAY to use Bullfighting-12 and Flint-Sparking-9 to mess with the bad guys.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

My softcover copy of Bestiary, which appears to be a first edition, first printing from 1988, does give itself the abbreviation BY, and has Bullfighting and Bulldancing on BY70.

Since the OP was looking for flavour for these skills:

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

iirc, one of these was listed in Greece, the other in Celts.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

I thought that too, but my copy of Greece hasn't got it.

Re: Bulldancing and Bullfighting from 3e
 

In 4e, I think Bullfighting and Bulldancing would both be better represented as Styles.

Perhaps something like:

Matador 5
In bullfighting, the matador comes out last, armed with a cape and a sword. It is he who faces the bull alone and on foot, and ultimately kills it.
The bull has already been stabbed by a picador with a lance, and should have three barbed spears from the bandeleros stuck in the flesh of its neck and shoulders. Nevertheless, the animal is quite dangerous--being a matador is a matter of life and death. However, the bullfight is a highly specialized and stylized affair, and the combat skills don't translate well to less controlled situations (hence, art skills).
The matador will usually allow the animal to charge, utilizing a Defensive Feint with the cape, stabbing with the sword as the animal passes. The thrust should be directly between the animal's shoulder blades hitting the heart. The bull is usually all-out-attacking, so this thrust is usually a telegraphic attack. However, it is considered good technique to time the thrust with the dodge--so counterattacks and ripostes are common among skilled matadors.

Skills: Cloak Art, Games (Bullfighting), Performance, Rapier Art.
Techniques: Counterattack (Rapier Art), Feint (Cloak Art), Targeted Attack (Rapier Thrust/Vitals).
Cinematic Skills: Precognitive Dodge
Cinematic Techniques: Roll With Blow
Perks: May Riposte Based on Dodge, Unusual Training (Enhanced Dodge-only against Slam attacks when the attacker has moved 5 hexes this round.)

Optional Traits: Combat Reflexes, Danger Sense, Daredevil, Enhanced Dodge
Reputation (Positive with Bullfighting enthusiasts, negative with animal lovers)