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-   -   Is temperature tolerance really that expensive? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=123318)

Ulzgoroth 02-19-2014 01:36 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1727837)
Who actually said that? Rocks don't combust and will not be damaged by flame that isn't hot enough to melt them.

They could be in some cases. Differential heating can be structurally bad, and so can heating things of non-uniform composition.

NineDaysDead 02-19-2014 01:56 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1727837)
1 point per step on the range/speed chart is rather underpriced.

Why? How do you see this breaking games?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1727837)
Who actually said that? Rocks don't combust and will not be damaged by flame that isn't hot enough to melt them.

The flammability of rocks is a function of “flammability classes,” which seem to be a 0-point feature, and has nothing to do with temperature tolerance:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Making things Burn basic page 433
Materials are grouped into six “flammability classes,” based on the amount of burning or incendiary damage needed to set them aflame:

Super-Flammable (e.g., black powder, ether): Negligible damage (candle flame).
Highly Flammable (e.g., alcohol, paper, tinder): 1 point.
Flammable (e.g., dry wood, kindling, oil): 3 points.
Resistant (e.g., seasoned wood, clothing, rope, leather): 10 points.
Highly Resistant (e.g., green wood, flesh): 30 points.
Nonflammable (e.g., brick, metal, rock, fireproof synthetics): N/A.

A fire source (including any incendiary attack) that inflicts the listed amount of burning damage in a single damage roll ignites the material immediately. Divide damage by 10 for tight-beam burning attacks.
If the flame fails to ignite the material immediately, but could do so on its best damage roll, roll damage once per second for as long as it is in contact. Even if the flame is incapable of inflicting enough damage on its best roll, it may set things afire with prolonged contact. Roll 3d for every 10 seconds of contact. Materials one category up (e.g., Flammable materials taking 1 point per second) catch fire on a 16 or less; those two categories up (e.g., Flammable materials touching a candle flame) catch on a 6 or less.
Once a material starts burning, it may ignite adjacent materials. Make separate rolls for it based on the fire’s damage (1d-1 per second for an ordinary fire).


sir_pudding 02-19-2014 02:00 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead (Post 1727531)
If you don't understand why when two characters both buy HT 12 [20] and Temperature Tolerance 40 [40], but one gets a range of:

-135ºF to 9,495ºF

And the other gets a range of:

35ºF to 570ºF

is a problem, then I don't think there's anyway I can explain it to you.

I think the assumption is that the first range is basically just color text for "immune to any temperatures that will actually ever matter in a game".

NineDaysDead 02-19-2014 02:02 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1727848)
I think the assumption is that the first range is basically just color text for "immune to any temperatures that will actually ever matter in a game".

If the crystalloid super wants to come to the earth's surface he can, but the human super can't go to the crystalloid's home, despite buying the same stuff.

sir_pudding 02-19-2014 02:04 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead (Post 1727852)
If the crystalloid super wants to come to the earth's surface he can, but the human super can't go to the crystalloid's home, despite buying the same stuff.

Yes, so? If the the game never goes to the center of the Earth (or does so with comic book physics) it doesn't actually matter. How many games have you played in where there was a 9,495ºF environment? IME, at least, this just doesn't actually happen.

NineDaysDead 02-19-2014 03:11 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1727854)
Yes, so? If the the game never goes to the center of the Earth (or does so with comic book physics) it doesn't actually matter.

And if the game does actually go to the center of the Earth?
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1727854)
How many games have you played in where there was a 9,495ºF environment? IME, at least, this just doesn't actually happen.

Without the required temperature tolerance I imagine most games would be quite brief!

sir_pudding 02-19-2014 03:20 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead (Post 1727875)
And if the game does actually go to the center of the Earth?

"Everyone except Crystalman dies! Hurray!"?

Anthony 02-19-2014 03:32 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1727854)
Yes, so? If the the game never goes to the center of the Earth (or does so with comic book physics) it doesn't actually matter. How many games have you played in where there was a 9,495ºF environment? IME, at least, this just doesn't actually happen.

The problem with the 'environmental heat only' idea is that it usually doesn't actually make sense that crystal-man can be burnt by 200F hot water, or even 2,000F lava, so you either have to give him a bunch of DR with some weird limitations (because it won't have much effect against 20,000F lightning or a laser with a nominal beam temperature of 50,000F) or you have to rule that TT actually makes you immune to attacks that fall within the character's range of tolerance.

sir_pudding 02-19-2014 04:52 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1727882)
The problem with the 'environmental heat only' idea is that it usually doesn't actually make sense that crystal-man can be burnt by 200F hot water, or even 2,000F lava, so you either have to give him a bunch of DR with some weird limitations (because it won't have much effect against 20,000F lightning or a laser with a nominal beam temperature of 50,000F) or you have to rule that TT actually makes you immune to attacks that fall within the character's range of tolerance.

Limited: Fire/Heat is a weird limitation?

Anthony 02-19-2014 04:56 PM

Re: Is temperature tolerance really that expensive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1727912)
Limited: Fire/Heat is a weird limitation?

Limited: fire/heat, only up to temperature X, is in fact a weird and difficult limitation, not to mention that there's very poor correlation between temperature and damage.


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