Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

Yes, but are you meant to apply it for the Grip ST you currently have on the opponent?

In other words, is a ST 20 character with Trained ST 30 always limited to 30 CP; no matter whether he's grappling with one hand, two hands or both hands or both legs; or can he get up to 45 CP if he's using both arms and both legs for a grapple against an opponent (for a x1.5 Grip ST)?

It makes quite a bit of difference.

Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

The latter seems more realistic. The former means that there are grapplers who don't benefit from grappling with more limbs, which doesn't seem right.

Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

That's true.

On the other hand, if the CP maximum = Trained ST was set the way it was specifically to avoid unbelievable results which occured in playtesting if characters could inflict more CPs on their opponent than they had Trained ST, an effective +50% boost to the cap when characters are willing to use all limbs might result in silly outcomes.

I'm running a few practice fights between Sir Michael and an unfortunate young stone giant*, but haven't figured out whether it's too high. In any case, he's won three times without bothering to grapple with more than two arms.

I'll probably have to match him against someone with a Training Bonus and enough skill to be able to hit with grapples or Break Free attempts.

*Who only has Sumo Wrestling at skill 10.

Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

The Max CP is a soft guideline to prevent crazy results. It's not exactly true that someone with Max ~ Trained ST instead of 1.5xTrained ST gets no benefit from the legs - you get to max CP faster than you would without them.

For a regular guy, who will likely have Trained ST 14 if he's ST 12 and is at Wrestlng at DX+2, you're looking at 1d CP, which will typically take 3-4 turns uncontested to hit the max with the arms, or Trained ST 16 (1.2 x 12 + 2) with the legs, which is 1d+1, which probably shaves a turn off the uncontested time required.

If you want to boost it to taste, booyah. The max CP is not one of the core "you gotta do this" elements of TG, which is why the suggestion is immediately followed by guidelines on raising it.

It also is simple to remember. To have the max fluctuate with your grip makes intuitive sense, and is "realistic." However, it's also a giant pain in the butt in play. Trained ST is simple, fairly believable, and broadly applicable.

Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

After experimentation, I'll allow Max CP to fluctate with the Grip ST actually grappling the opponent. It's much more intuitively 'right', it's more fun and it encourages other grappling moves than 'I standing grapple him with both arms until I hit max CP and then do stuff to him'.

It's also balanced in that getting in a position where using your legs is practical is not easy in all circumstances, let alone against a very high-ST opponent. And it only allows you to match what you could do standing with a belt and is inferior to what you could do standing with an improvised stick, so it's not too unbalancing.

Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

Sensible. My games in which I have played recently (and the co-authors with which I'm working on grappling stuff) would shy away from this level of fiddly - but if you and your players dig it, the above works very well. It puts a limit on what you can do with any particular grip, and rewards efforts to get more limbs (or all limbs AND grappling weapons) in play.

With four limbs and a rigid weapon (usually x2 to Max CP) you're looking at 3xTrained ST as a max ever applicable.

Re: [Technical Grappling] Teach me using examples
 

Since one has to work out Grip ST for any given move anyway, I haven't found it adding complexity. It seems to work better and flow more naturally with multi-limbed monstrousities, too.

Thus serving to make the largest types of giant within Mickey's reach to pin, if barely (and assuming perfect conditions).