Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

YES! I've been saying and posting this for a while. The excuse that "Well, if you don't want to blow page count, you can't have...blah-blah-blah..." doesn't hold water with me. I don't think you'd even have to bind them up. Keep them separate and in a little display case.

You have GURPS Lite and three or four of the most basic genres -- and maybe, maybe one introductory adventure each. Remember how the Alderac Adventure Boosters were designed/displayed? Thin pamphlets that stacked all nice and compact on a tree by the cash register? here

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

You mean, a bit -- generic?

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

Yup. I also remember that several game store owners I know took a huge bath on those.

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

Well, be fair. Do you think they took a bath on those because they were neat and compact and by the cash register?

Or maybe it had something to do with the deluge of D20 material at that point...or the quality of what was in them?

Maybe I should bring up Melee and Wizard, two more products pithily packaged. Who took a bath on those?

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

Almost certainly the latter. That doesn't change the fact that store owners are now gunshy about small, cheap-looking products. When we were soliciting opinions on Fourth Edition, almost universally the store owners told our sales and marketing staff that books that looked high-quality sold better than books that looked cheap. For better or worse, "looks high-quality" means hardcovers with color art.

For all the blithe "Oh, just go a quick, simple variant of GURPS Lite," it is NOT quick. NOT simple. It may still be worth doing, but don't minimize the effort and commitment required to do it right.

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

Andrew ,
How about making a deal with Paizo?? Right now they send those mini -adventure things to the store I work at. They come with a small area map, usually 2 to 3 pewter miniatures and a Mini-adventure that uses the map and NPCS. The price point is around $14.00

We always sell those within 5 to 7 days of getting them .
How about a GURPS version of the same idea??

- Edmund W. Charlton

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

Heh. Point taken. GURPS is supposed to be the mr. Potato Head of RPG's. But does that mean you can't give it a distinctive graphic profile?

It's off to a good start with the iconic characters and the new front pages. But as the worldbooks get less generic, it might be good to have a less generic overall style. The D&D3 main books are sweating fantasy from every damn pore, rather than just featuring some fantasy pictures here and there. The difference is rather striking.

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

Good morning,

Without wanting to be unpolite, I just don't like the look of 4e at all.
There is a consistent artdesign, but it doesn't catch me, it has not got a quality of flavour, the first function of artwork in RPGs or books in general. Some of the pieces are quite nice, but most of them look too "on-the-fly" or "there-has-to-be-some-art" to me to work in the abovementioned way.
Probably, they are just not my cup of art.

On the other hand, there are some points in the design of the new books I like quite well; the colour-coded chapters f.ex.; though I'm still devastated by the loss of the sidebars. They were the part by which you immediatly recognised a page from a GURPSbook, i.e. plain good old corporate identity stuff. Shame on the guy or girl who decided to drop those.

Back to the topic: Surely, a good cover can sell a book. Especially in RPGs, table-tops, comics and related products, good covers and nice artwork draw the young. So, better (i.e. better tailored to the majority of the target group, mostly boys age 15 to 25 I guess) over-all art and design would probably increase sales. Question remains if that wouldn't cost more than it would aquire in revenues.

If somebody should think about starting GURPS 5e only for me, I would strongly recommend no art at all but good consistent structure, keep colourcoding, reintroduce sidebars, switch maintext to 2 columns, keep textboxes, keep good glossary, if art at all make it only 1 frontpage per chapter, keep good reference-system, put in some cool diagrams. Hardcover is okay with me.

Now that I think of it, put in some art. I want Smif back!

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

It's these kind of equations that always need to be reconsidered and challenged, the overworn adage being "think outside the box" (I almost can't type that anymore.) The question becomes "Is it possible to make a compact product with an emanent aura of high-quality?" I think it is possible. Not easy, maybe not even run-of-the-mill difficult, maybe it's nut-busting hard. But if any company can do it, SJG can.
Apologies if I came off as blithe. I never considered it easy. I'm just obstinate, is all -- but it's an obstinacy built on tremendous faith in this company's ingenuity. (The only other company I bother to give feedback to is WoTC, and that is due to a tremendous faith in that company's largesse, not ingenuity.)

Re: GURPS/4E... could be more attractive?
 

An opinion is not being unpolite...opinions are encouraged, though some will tell you differently..
Well here's the rub KK...Not everyone is going to want the same things that you do, and SJgames has to make a call on which direction they will go. And, SJ games is very cognisant of the type of "gamers" that buy from SJgames and base those decisions off of that knowledge. No system is perfect but once your committed it is very difficult to start making changes. I know that I do not, want, any of the future 4e books to start looking differently. I wish for my set to be a like. Sure there are some things that I didn't like but I'll adapt, accept and get used to them. After-all it's the core mechanics and the game that I am interested in...and in the end that is what really sells GURPS. You get testimonies all the time.

Just to highlight what I'm saying I'll take your 12 points and we'll compare notes.

1. Your not really clear hear so, i am going to assume that you don't like the cover design. Well I do. And, apparently many others did, because they had a contest to see what cover design they where going to use and the one they are using was an overwhelming favourite.

2. Here I think your doing a great disservice. There is a large group of +25 gamers that are GURPS fans...that have that all important disposable income. Sure you want to attract new gamers to your game but at the same time you have to keep your core gamers happy. then there is always the danger of trying to straddle the line, too much, that you end up pleasing no one.

3. I like my game books sprinkled with art. It is almost accepted practice and in many cases is a deal breaker for purchases.

4. I agree.

5. I was never a big fan of the side-bar. It was always distracting, to me. I'm glad the did away with it.

6. I like the three column look. I don't find it any harder to read and referencing is just as easy. There is a reason most magazines use 3 columns.

7. I agree.

8. I whole heartily agree. A poorly done index is practically a deal breaker...

9. I'm going to say we half agree. I'd like to see a few full page pieces of art spread through-out the books. But, I'd maintain the smaller pieces also.

10. Agreed...very important for an rpg.

11. For what? But, if there is a need...I'm sure this request will be fulfilled. So, half agreed again.

12. I like the hard-cover much, much more than soft cover.

So, of your 12 points I agreed with 5, disagreed with 5 and split on 2. Now, that is just you and me comparing posts. SJ games has to make decisions based on more than two people. A daunting task. That is why forums and threads like these are an important tool. So, keep posting... ;)







Let me be the first to thank you for not calling yourself something like "kicking K kosmos".