Re: New Reality Seeds
 

As 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi's stated goal (as recorded by all Muslin authorities of the time) was to loot churches and kill priests, I don't think a change at that point would lead to an Islamic Europe by itself. A collapse of the Byzantine Empire four or five centuries early might do it though.

There were Arab merchants that traveled up the rivers of Russia to the Baltic and Scandinavia when those areas were still pagan. If a charismatic Arab preacher had made it to the Baltic in time, why not an Norse-Viking Islamic culture to threaten Europe from the North?

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

Because hajj. While obviously not every Muslim is able to perform hajj, the requirement is a serious barrier to the spread of the faith among populations for whom it would be really, really difficult. I can think of some other, admittedly speculative, reasons why Islam might not do as well among the Norse as Christianity did, but that way lies the Warning of Kromm.

Null-Guderian has awesome potential. If they bog down, the generals are going to start ignoring Hitler when he gives orders they don't like; but many in Germany understand that they win fast or they don't win, so...when the front stalls, they'll already be interested in negotiating. The goal, then, is peace in the West before Japan drags the USA in. Barbarossa will be a no-go, But Stalin is likely to attack first...

I see two possible goals here - a world where Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa still go off, but without a working armor doctrine in time, I can see Stalin in Berlin in 1943, possibly no Final Solution, and lots of Nazis given refuge in the west from the big, bad Bolshies. This is going to creep out many Homeliners because it leads to a Cold War where the liberal capitalist regimes remember Hitler with tolerance, maybe even fondness in certain quarters.

The other possibility for Null-Guderian I see is reaching some sort of peace in time in the West. This may require the Army to start using gas again, in defiance of Hitler's orders. The prevailing model is going to be Bismarck, not Friedrich...the new German Empire will have to be created by a series of short, sharp engagements, preferably with smaller enemies. Suppose Germany demands the Belgian Congo and nothing else, and, um...gets up to its nastiness there?

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And I don't see Infinity authorizing the Hitler op. This is the moment the Armanen have been waiting for, to say "look everybody, Hitler's back!" at which point, to explain this impossibility, they have to tell the Reich-5 public about parachronics. Reich-5 goes from creepy annoyance to ZOMG KILL IT WITH FIRE...Operation Firefall will be unshelved and greenlit immediately. And then...ugh...

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There are so many ways for a person to die without bringing in extra-universe means.
Wouldn't a Hitlerless war inevitably lead to fracturing of focus? Especially as everyone tries to prop up their own figurehead to push forward Hitler's legacy, even if it isn't really what he would have wanted?

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With or without people?

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There would be a period of instability, but anyone gaining control, Himmler and Goering are both likely, but there are other possibilities, would be more stable than Hitler. Just get Goering officially in charge a few weeks before Stalingrad and have him rescind the no retreat order. The German armies would suddenly gain a huge advantage and several traps that the Germans understood, but could not retreat from would be averted. Given how near the Soviets came to defeat in our history after Stalingrad because they couldn't retreat, a Whermach, with a free hand on tactics, might take down the Red Army.

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I'm reading a book on the history of the Anglo-American relationship. This leads to certain questions that could lead to interesting worlds.

1) There was in the early 19th century (it faded dramatically after the ACW) an interest in the USA gaining Cuba. Early on it was of interest across the board, later on it was maining a Southern/Slave-Holding interest.

Any Ideas about how gaining Cuba as a State would effect history?

2) Both sides botched durring the War of 1812. The USA constantly failed to act with much if any millitary skill on the Northwest frontier (Except for Commadore Perry, who gave the Brits a massive naval defeat on the Great Lakes). What would have been the outcome of a US conquest of Canada?

3) On the other claw, if the Brits had grabed and held New Orleans (and ports like that the Brits never gave back in the 19th century), it would probably crippled the growth of the USA and lead to a Southern victory in any Civil War. This would have meant no USA to help the allies in WWI. If the allies had still won, not unlikely, it would have probably meant a neutral North and a Pro-Nazi South in WWII.

How do you guys see that world?

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Gonna take the easy one first -
2) Bad. The USA did as well as it did because Britain held so much of its forces in reserve, worried about Napoleon. Napoleon ceases to be a factor in 1815 and the Brits suddenly have a lot more force to deploy - and as a British friend of mine puts it, "by that point, we wouldn't have taken you lot back on a bet." The British take Boston and New York City and New Orleans in 1815, and the Louisiana Purchase is undone in the resulting Treaty, giving it back to Spain. (for now.) Whoever is President in 1817, it certainly won't be Monroe - maybe even a Federalist revival.

3) I really don't see the British trying to retain New Orleans personally; their stated aim was to return the place to its "rightful owner", Spain. Never mind that the Mexican Rebellion was already in full swing. Assuming a British Resident and a squadron to back him up in New Orleans, though - well, becomes tricky. On the one hand, formal westward expansion is thwarted (but see Texas); the USA will be pushing for Cuba and perhaps down to Guiana etc to expand. The important part, though, is that the LP is now all free soil - by Mexican decree and British assent. And there isn't going to be a fugitive slave treaty.

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

The thing to remember about the war of 1812 is Napoleon. Considering it as anything else than a front of the Napoleonic wars is American-centric naivety, ignorance, or wilfully ignoring the bigger picture. To change its result you really have to change how that war turned out, or have one side do a LOT better or worse. America didn't commit to fight the British until the very height of Napoleon's power, right before he marched on Russia. Imagine what would have happened if Russia fell. Or if instead Napoleon had managed to land a force on England's shores. The American attack would have looked like well timed opportunism.

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Actually that attitude didn't take hold until the 1830-1850 period. Before then there was a nearly universal assumption that not only would the UK get their North American colonies back, but that they had a moral duty to recover them.

In period the Brits, who where fighting for their lives against Napoleon's Empire, typically said one thing and did another. Unlike the USA in the Cold War, Britain not only never apologised for her actions, she demanded praise. Keeping a valuable port like New Orleans would have been both typical of early 19th century Britain and in line with her stated policy aims in North America.

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Agreed. Thoughout the period Britain did things that caused chaos in other nations to further her war aims. They were always shocked, SHOCKED, that other nations didn't want to make deep sacrifices for England's well being.

Note: the use of England for Britain is intentional and a comment on period behavior.

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Lots of alternate histories seem to be about taking a major personality out of history. Perhaps this is because adding people who are both capable of shifting the course of history and are yet believable characters is quite difficult.

But let's try it. First we pick a blank spot in world history... hmm... (of course, nothing really is blank, so anything I pick is more an illustration of my ignorance, but...) let's say 1810, somewhere in Mexico, our new figure is born. He, like many great figures, will be a soldier, and by 1833 has already performed valorously under the newly-liberated Estados Unidos Mexicanos, and had attained a rank of approximately Sergeant Major, and likely would have remained there if not for his decisive action during the Tampico Expedition, an attempt by liberalizing Mexican loyalists, formerly exiled in Texas (which was majority pro-Mexican at the time), to take the strategic town of Tampico.

Our new figure showed unnoticed diplomatic skill and made peaceful contact with the invaders. After meeting with their leader, he made a crucial decision and agreed to support them. This is, of course, not a normal action for a loyal soldier, but our new buddy is a history-maker. He gets to do these things.

The result was a surprising success for the invading liberalizers, because New Guy had executive command over a battalion. The liberalizers took notice of his skill, diplomacy, and loyalty, and, basically, hired him.

Let's skip some time here. A number of improbable events happen, including many really successful battles. The Mexican Civil War continued for another several years- 17 in all (11 in OTL). At the end of it, New Guy is supreme commander of the United Mexican and Texan States armed forces, including its navy. Now seasoned yet still fairly young, he devotes much of his time to his education, particularly economics and the humanities. By the year 1845, he's developed a form of military doctrine revolving around negotiation-by-force, which relies on rapid communication. Like all doctrines, it is not so much a revolution as it is a progression. All armies have hoped to drive their enemies to surrender; negotiation-by-force is a combination of tactics both military and diplomatic that specialize on this.

The next several decades are consolidatory times for Mexico (plus Texas, which amicably declares independence in 1852 but remains a staunch ally). New Guy doesn't do much besides drive the adoption of new technologies in Mexico and lend his prodigious skill to uniting the country and destroying intransigent factions.

It's 1867, the Confederacy (which has been saber-rattling for years now) has finally separated from the North, bringing about an American Civil War. Both sides seek Mexico's assistance. The south chafes at New Guy and Pal's progressive leadership, and the North doesn't really respect them but sees them as potential allies. The South would have acted years earlier if they didn't think they'd have to worry about Mexican interference, but a flashpoint event - a slave uprising in Cuba that threatened to spread to the US - left them with little choice.

New Guy is 57, and he's been slowing down but not much. Following the death of beloved president Valentin Farias in '59, New Guy became President of Mexico, and it is now his third term in office. Though he still wears a military uniform, he's fully embraced his new calling as diplomat and politician. Future historians will consider him a serious contender for most talented diplomat of all time.

Mexico is struggling compared to the western nations, but it can be compared to them. It has several industrial cities, and while a little lawless in the hinterlands, commerce is safe enough. It also has expanded south and north into what is, in our timeline, the American Southwest, and controls most of California, although not the booming gold towns.

What will happen now? What does a united Mexico mean for the civil war and what comes after?

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

You gloss over the important detail in this worldline - the Mexican-American War. This was the dress rehearsal for the American Civil War, in which all of the ACW Generals served as Majors and Colonels alongside each other.

If it started on time, the USA will not run into the same enemy it did historically. MNG will be serving in uniform and likely earn the distinction and pleasure of kicking Zachary Taylor's ass back across the Mississippi River. In a perfect world, MNG would actually sack New Orleans. If Scott ignored all that and went straight for Mexico City, he could still win a short victorious war - but that is not in Scott's nature, nor in the 1840s Congress'. He will be directed to relieve Taylor in the field and he will do so. The Whig elected in 1848 - it won't be defeated General Taylor, nor will Colonel Jefferson Davis ever rise higher than Senator from Mississippi after that performance - will negotiate a peace status quo ante bellum. And lots of personal politics have changed.

If that never happened, perhaps Texas' independence will fill the gap. Was it slavery? I bet it was slavery. Britain and France offer some debt forgiveness to Mexico in exchange for emancipation, the Mexicans are happy to take the deal, and Texas rebels. The USA supports Texas, but the fact that Europe is clearly with Mexico on this may be - problematic. If Texas won its independence but doesn't join with the USA - well, no matter how that shook out I see a lot of bad blood over it. If it lost Texas, perhaps Mexico cedes control of California's gold fields to Britain? It definitely won't be Americans controlling them. San Francisco leased like Hong Kong?

Either way, the point is that the Mexicans hate slavery but they also hate Americans at this juncture; where they land in this fight depends on MNG's personal convictions. Either way, it makes blockading the South very hard for the North; goods can sail into Galveston or even Tampico and reach Dixie by rail or wagon quickly, and nobody in the North is dumb enough to try and extend the blockade south.

If there was no war, or a very different war, then the ACW may kick off with the US Army having fought nothing but Indians since 1814. That...will have bad effects on early strategy and performance. If it lost a war to Mexico using its democratic volunteer model, on the other hand, it may have already expanded and deepened its standing army...

Did MNG rise through the cavalry, infantry or artillery? He's an individual, but it makes a difference ragarding military and racial policy, among other things.

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Actually, a very fun way to create a parallel for a new campaign.

'On this earth, Joppeknol settled down early, has a mediocre job and his greatest accomplishment seems to be that he can GM gurps games for some of his friends. However, in this timeline .....'

It's also possible to take a grandfather if you want an earlier change.

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

It is easier to know important turning points for family.
I'm sure my life would have been radically different if certain initially tiny incidents happened differently.
Early diagnosis of my anxiety and social phobia along with a more effective medication could have allowed me to blossom into something amazing... or at least more functional.

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Good one PTTG.

But then great talent isn't always needed to change history. Many a monarch might have been much more important if they had lived longer. Take a minor Roman Emperor who lived for a few years and died in his mid-40s and give him a lifespan and reign that lasts until his mid-70's. The simple stability near the center of power would have major effects.

Another track is to take an idea we know many people had, and have someone with power take up the idea. Picture if someone had convinced Lincoln that schooling and medical care needed to be seen as rights not privilages. And, because of the influence of this acquaintance, Lincoln wrote a tighly reasoned and beautifully crafted essay in support of these ideas.

The USA's educational system would doubtless have benifited, and we'd have had socialised medicine generations earlier. Improve the education and health care of millions and the knock-on effects are vast.

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

Continuing to Read a history of Anglo-American relationships. I have a couple of interesting change points to toss out.

1) In the 1880's Britain was closer to Germany, Austria, and Italy, than to Russia and France. The latter two were both seen as traditional foes. If there was no diplomatic revolution in the early 20th century, WWI, which was pushed by the Russians would have been vastly harder on France. And Anglo-German allience would have owned Western Europe.

2) The Venezuelan Crisis of 1895 seems to have come durring a large number of crises falling at once. The possibility of the UK getting into a war against most of the major powers at the same time was a real possibility. There were no likely allies for Britain either. The USA was hostile and suspicious, and all of the continental powers were hostile and bitter. The UK and by extention the British Empire could have fallen hard.

In both cases, what kind of world does this group see coming out of either change.

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It seems to me that removal of Sir Cyril Burt would create an interesting alternate world. Burt, whatever you say about the man's honesty or lack thereof, championed a theory of intelligence and education that has been very bad for Britain. If you remove Sir Cyril from history and replace him with a highly charismatic champion of educational reforms, let's make him or her a close relative to the British Royals, who promotes widespread education and seeks to mine the untapped potential of the nation, Britain's history changes.

Britain laged behind Europe and America in access to education well into the 1990's. A Britain that proudly sought to educate all of it's people and saw birth as no reason to limit access to a college education would have adapted to ecconomic and techological changes in the 20th century far better. The knock-on effects would be vast.

Place a world were this happened on Q6 and watch Centurm and Homeline duke it out for control.

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

Venezuela flashpoint looks interesting; what happens, France refuses to host, or demands a non-ceremonial seat on the tribunal, which then hands down an anti-British decision? Britain rejects the arbitration deal, occupies the disputed territory, USA invades Canada in retaliation and gets France on board with the promise of Quebec? (the French don't really want Quebec, and for the USA to offer it would be such hypocrisy it may be impossible, but it's as good as anything). Perhaps British Guiana will be split between French and Venezuela...but that seems too small a reward.

In any case, to really take Britain down a peg, we need France on board. They're the only ones with global force projection available. If it's just the USA vs Britain, then Britain destroys the US Navy and merchant fleet, the USA rolls over Canada and sits on it, and the two sides glower at each other until sanity erupts. To have any chance of liberating Canada by force, Britain would have to field many, many Indians against a white, English-speaking opponent - winning that way and then demobbing the troops back to India is a poison pill the British are perfectly aware of, and I honestly think they'd abandon Canada before doing it in this era.

so: 1) Britain defeats the USA by shooting itself in the foot, creating an Indian force able to evict them from the subcontinent; or 2) Britain abandons Canada to the USA, permanently poisoning relations between the two and probably making WWI go the other way; or 3) France is somehow dragooned into the fight, and the British Empire really comes apart at the seams - fostering rebellion in Ireland for starters...

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Frankly I think the states would play a minor role in an 1895 Great War. Canada would know that they couldn't take the USA (although there was a British plan to take the USA with three divisions), so Canada would prepare defences and wait for Britain.

The main action would be in British home waters. If a Franco-German alliance (stranger things have happened) attacked Britain in this period, the UK would be in great danger. Such and alliance could come about from several nations dogpiling onto a vunerable UK.

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What's the book you're reading for this? Because I want it to work, it's more original and interesting than Fashoda, but it sounds very much like every world leader has been replaced with a 14-year-old Risk player, which is to say, flying pig country.

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Old World, New World, more later.

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Or, one could play Diplomacy.

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Later has come. This link gets you to Old World, New World's Amazon page. The book is about the history of Anglo-American relations from 1607 on.

You won't believe the stuff about the mole in Wilson's White House or the simple fact that America nearly took down Britain in WWI because the Brits spent more time insulting Wilson than building bridges. Trust me this book is a fountain of gameable Alternative histories.

And yes, many 19th century statesmen were playing Risk with real nations.

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Are you kidding? I can find 6 people to play GURPS with me faster than I can find 6 people to play Diplomacy ;)

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I had to build a world for a game and I thought I'd share it.

Iskander -6
TL3^
Q5
978 AD

changes:
the greek state of Bactria survives the storm of the steppe tribes and thrives as part of the civilized world, starting a trend towards Greek style democracy in central, west, and southern asia.
'Life' Magic works. mages can heal, increase folk's vigor, steal youth, and animate corpses or skeletons. This doesn't work on most worlds.

By Area:
Western Europe: Pretty similar. The crusades are about to start, and for much the same reasons as OTL.
The Byzantines: Fighting with Turks and Egyptians. Still ruled by an emperor, and in control of more of Anatolia
Egypt: Fatamid rule. a little less similar. Generals have a large amount of the power.
The Turks (in control of persia): In feud with Egypt. Ruled by Democracy, though only the warrior/militia class gets a vote. This culture extends farther into central asia than traditionally.
India: Ruled by a single democratic government. Most people have votes, but not all of them, and they certainly don't count for the same amount.
The Steepes: The ancient might of the stepes has been broken by the people of Bactria, and the greek ideas. There are many roving tribes, who carry on a thriving trade with other peoples and preserve the religion of the ancient Greeks.
China: Culturally China has not changed much, though the dynasties have. If anything, the chineese are even more traditional than before. They are more aware of other places via the steepe tribes, and unable to claim a complete technological superiority they claim a spiritual one.

The world is frankly intended as background -- a world that doesn't have much going on except for trade and arguments back home about what degree of political engineering is acceptable. I was intending to use it as a place where a critical failure jump could land or a midway point on the way to something else (or even a decent place to retire people). It could see some mileage as a world turned upside down, where the Muslims practice democracy and so forth. It could also be the center of an investigation as to why magic works differently on different worlds, or the site of an intervention when one of the periodic great necromancers comes through.

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How about a world where there's a greater influx of non-homo sapiens genetic material?
A world where most non-Africans have say 20%+ neanderthal D.N.A. and east Asians have that much Denisovan D.N.A.
They seem mostly human, but it makes undisguised infiltration and study damn difficult.

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It would still be a good place to adventure. It's just that the adventures would be more suited to Picaresque Rogue than to interdemenional agents. Still, those can be fine adventures.

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Try this idea. You have what seems to be a stable-ish Echo on Q6 where the local year is in the early 1960's. But suddenly President Kennedy announces that certain technologies were held back by secret agencies for spying. However he's now releasing these technologies because they'll be good for the ecconomy.

The technologies are basically the microchip, PCs, and the Internet, Plus all the needed supporting tech. The President points out that the Information Revolution can't be followed by the Soviets unless they open up their society and embrace basic liberties. At the same time the President releases the news that a fusion reactor has achieved breakeven and unlimited cheap pollution free energy is just around the corner!.

Homeline is shocked. This parallel had give no indications of such changes. Is it a Centrum plot? Is it Cabal interference? A local Homeline group trying something new?

Meanwhile, try the role of a KGB man. These new technologies once integrated into American society will bring vast benefits. But the USSR can't let this suff get out of control. How do you stop this transformation of America. More to the point, who is behind this transformation and how do you stop them?

Have different groups seeking the answers to the mysteries collide with each other. Often.

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

Thanks. I suppose you can have an adventure anywhere. Actually, Iskander-3 would probably be a great world for a Colligio Januari adventure.


Point of view of the KGB man isn't about stopping things. Its of co-opting them. Universal surveillance is now accessible! You can even have the computer sort through things to show only the most suspicious places. You build your version of the internet -- one all the dictators* of the world favor, one with central control rather than this impossible to regulate mess the capitalists are pushing. And hacking -- oh, these americans need to work on their security!

*its worth noting that throughout the cold war only a few key nations on the capitalist block were democracies. Korea wasn't. Spain wasn't. Most of africa and south america wasn't. It was only at the very end that democracy started becoming more common. Very few countries were democracies before 1980.

More from the generator:

Bleda-2:
TL 3, Q6, Year 631

only a few great names are remembered 1,500 years after they died. One of them is the infamous Attila the Hun, who knocked over the failing western roman empire. In this timeline, his brother-king Bleda survived the assasintation attempt by Attila and killed his brother in combat. The scandal knocked over the hun empire before it got off the ground, and the immense pressure on rome by the Germanic peoples never materialized.

200 years later, both empires are in a renaissance, though both are on uneasy terms with each other. The empires of east and west speak different languages and the famous east-west schism has shown up early. They still acknowledge each other as members of Christendom and the civilized world. They also have their own enemies to fight: the Western empire is facing down the steppe warriors on the edge of Germany, while the eastern empire is dealing with a sudden influx of warriors from arabia, preaching a new religion with the gall to call Christians polytheists.

Any place to post possible alternate realities?
 

I have a version of Dar al-Othman that might be of interest but it's too long to put into this forum.

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1304: Pope Benedict XI declines the wine while visiting Perugia, and thus unknowingly survives an assassination attempt only eight months into his papacy. Later that year, he pens a doctrine that declares bile, blood, etc., of the ill to contain the "disfavor of god" and otherwise be concentrated with sin. He advocates that Christians wash their hands in holy water after caring for the ill.

By 1306, he was assassinated through some entirely different method and the papacy was mostly the same thereafter. Maybe some other short-lived pope was skipped entirely to bring the popes and dates back into line, if you want this to be a high-inertia timeline. The only thing of note is that some later pope decrees that silver dust and a prayer can sanctify any clean water as holy water (presumably to increase sales of silver dust).

So let's skip ahead to the 1340s. Due to favorable circumstances, most laypersons know that "ya gotta wash yer hands after ya touch 'em, god says so." And so, Europe faces the black plague with, functionally speaking, some idea of germ theory, and the educated will probably formalize this understanding pretty quickly.

Of course, this may end up slowing technological/social development because a less deadly plague might allow feudalism and serfdom to remain more healthy, longer.

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Well sum it up then!

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The USSR rejected to very aspects of the Information revolution that increased the West's productivity. The kinds of information exchange that the IT revolution brought with it can't be allowed in a totaliterian state. By 1960 the USSR had stoped growing ecconomically, they had reached the limits of authoritarian growth, having the USA zoom forward with IT and fusion added to it, would have shown the USSR that Capitalist forms of freedom (which they would have defined as illusory) were going to bury them. Removing stagflation, which fusion would tend to do, would cancel much of the post 1960's bitterness in the West. This could lead to a very different kind of Cold War.


Remember, stagflation and the troubles of the post-1960's West, hid the basic fact of the USSR falling apart for two decades. as late as the early 1980's the USSR believed it was winning the Cold War and the West would simply collapse. They'd be aware that that wasn't true in this parallel.

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Oh, I'm aware of that. I'm just pointing out that the USSR won't realize what's holding them back, and plentiful microchips will get stolen and will be utilized in a big brother fashion. The soviets won't work to trying to destroy the openness, they'll work at twisting the tech to achieve their ends. The windfall may favor one side, but both sides will benefit. Just in VERY different ways.

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I thought most of Europe bathed during the Black Plague era anyways but that it was in the Renaissance that bathing fell out of favor?

Re: New Reality Seeds
 

I don't know when bathing fell out of favor, but the 18th century was seen as the true nadir of European/Western cleanliness.

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Stalin-3

The Stalin worlds characterised by major changes mainly in Stalin's character and lifespan.

Stalin-1 has Stalin realise that he was too much of a doctranaire Leninist. After the war he relaxes and takes a wait and see apporch both toward the West and his own people. The local year is 1947 and it's too soon to see if it makes a real difference. Stalin-2 has Stalin living longer and purging the Jews of the USSR. Local year 1958.

On Stalin-3, local year 1948, Stalin has decided the West lacks enough Atom Bombs to win a war with Russia and lauches a late winter attack on Western Europe in 1946. Truman lunches a firm counter attack, and all of the New Deal/WWII ecconomic machinery is put back in place. The GOP manages to look disloyal durring the 1946 elections and Truman has strong democratic majorities in both houses. Truman manages to push though socialise medicine (vital to keep our population fuctioning and strong) and desegrating the millitary. Germany is the Frontline in Europe, most of the Jews of Europe have been evacuated to Palestine.

Britain and France are in ecconomic freefall, but their troops are in the field being paid by America and supplied by the USA to. Sweden and Finland are linked with the allies and India has also declared war on the USSR but their troops are mainly staffing areas far from the frontlines. Gandhi is gald to get indepence plus a garrentee of US aid.

Centrum doesn't know which side to try to take over in this Q7 world. Homeline wants to keep the West free of Centrum. Russia wants to eliminate this world's Stalin while the USSR is still viable. France, Britain, and China, favor that to gain breathing room for their parallels on this world. The Cabal wants to gain influence in the USA because they forsee this world having major reasources in Psionics. Reasources they mean to control or benefit from.

Asia is quiet for now. But China knows that Japan and India would both attack if preserve their independence. Mao is waiting to see whether or not he should try to make a deal with the West. Meanwhile, the USA is saving up its A-Bombs for choice targets and attepts at knock-out blows. But the bombs will drop soon enough.

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Gandhi looked primarily to Russia as an ally against the western colonial empires, and a counterbalance to China. He's much more likely to side with them, than make war against them.

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I rather doubt it is atomic bombs that stopped him from doing this. The fact is that by 1945 the US economy is in good shape and everybody else's is shot full of holes. And a similar situation applies to the supply of military age men. Until he can change that, either by repairing the damages in Russia and whatever parts of Europe it is dominating, or by gaining the ability to blow big holes in the American economy quickly (i.e. a large and long range nuclear capability) a major war with the Americans is a losing proposition and Stalin knows it.

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William Randolph Hearst only narrowly lost the NYC mayoral election in 1905, and that was with a still powerful Tammany Hall using every dirty trick in the book to attack him. If the Tammany machine were weaked, say by Parkhurst's expose of their corruption getting more dirt and having more popular traction, he may very well have won. If he was competent as mayor, a run for Governor of NY in 1908 seems likely. If he does well there, he is almost certain to go for the Democratic nomination for POTUS in 1912. If Teddy Roosevelt splits the Republican vote like he did in our history, you might get President Hearst.

Hearst was a bit of an Anglophobe and strongly nationalistic. Though the long term financial interests of the US are more strongly attached to Britain and France, he will be very insistent about protecting US "neutral rights." So let's say he send US Navy ships to escort trade vessels, which pinches both the British ability to blackade Germany and Germany's ability to pursue submarine warfare. The US can sell to both sides, because both sides need the resources and don't want to antagonize another potential combatant.

This probably skews more strongly against the British, and it means the Germans won't be fighting with the threat of running out of rubber or petroleum hanging over their heads. If Germany is more effectively prosecuting the war, we may see strain rising in Russia faster. The Russian Civil War still leaves Kerensky in power, but in late 1916. Seeing a much less certain outcome for the Allies, Kerensky sues for peace and Russian forces are returning home by 1917. This frees up a lot of German forces and brings desperately needed credibility to the Kerensky government. It also brings soldiers home who can help suppress the communist uprisings, which will have had less time to organize and gather support. Instead of a massive Russian Civil War, we arelikely to see a series of uprisings put down by military action and Lenin is likely to hang. The "Mad Baron" Ungern-Sternberg will ikely take his forces to Mongolia, and perhaps take a bit of siberia as well. As long as he doesn't try to come into the Russian heartland, I don't think Kerensky could muster the political will to take him out without spawning another coup.

The Entente is really feeling the pinch now. Relations between the Entente and the US are as chilly as they have ever been. Germany is still losing the war, but very, very slowly. By 1918, all the warring powers are approaching collpase, the US has made a grotesque fortune via loans and weapons sells to both sides (backed by the powers US investments as collateral.) The strikes that crippled the German war machine are much less widespread and more easily suppressed (because the workers are still receiving some pay). Late in the year a British commander mistakenly fires on a US escort, sinking it. This is a misunderstanding, but both sides are wary. The US responds with immediate demands for reparations, freezing British lines of credit, and moving soldiers into position on the Canadain border to prepare for war. The two powers never actually come to blows, but the already spiralling morale of the British public crashes, resulting in massive, paralyzing strikes, mutinies, and desertions. An attempted communist coup in London is put down, but Britain is forced to sue for peace. France cannot stand alone against a Germany with uncontrolled access to the sea, and joins in surrender talks.

Germany takes the territiroeis it wants out of France and expands into eastern Europe, also claiming the British colonies in Africa and much of the Pacific possessions as well. Britian loses control of Ireland as well, and even Northern Ireland wines up ruled from Dublin. Kerensky tries nobly to steer Russia to a stable democratic form, but it winds up falling to a series of strongmen with democratic veneer. Sternberg's bizarre Russo-Sino-Mongolian empire becomes a hermit state, with a strange Buddhist-Orthodox state religion centered on the cult of the emperor. The Czar and his family flee to Paris. Hearst leads the US into a period of wealth and great power status, but images of the carnage in Europe cast a pall over his legacy, and his is remembered as the profiteer President.
Roll forward a couple of decades and the world is a chaotic place. Britain and France fall into revanchist totalitarianism, making plans for a war of vengeance along side the totalitarian technocrats of the Italian futurist government. The Kaiser's empire is largely run by beurocrats out of Berlin, with a powerful army reaping the benefits of the empires technological and economic dominace over Europe and Africa. The Ottoman Empire, though victorious, continually flirts with complete collapse as independence movements, religious fanatics, and scheming courtiers all threaten the Sublime Porte. Only the German's constant support keeps these forces in check. The Kaiser is rather unwilling to see an allied emperor dethroned and the beurocrats like the steady control of the oilfields they have, though privately considerations about whether small nationalist states might not be easier to control in the long run have emerged.

The Japanese slide into militarism parallel's our histories and the Japanese see their lack of significant territorial gains as being a slight and are looking for potential allies to help them wrest control of the German and American Pacific territories. The US is still very wealthy by world standards. Even the stock market devaluation of 32 was more of a speed bump than a crash, and the US is still on top of the recovery, although far from as militarized as its rivals. As the empires and dictatorships of Eurasia prepare for another war, the US, under president Wheeler, prepare to avoid being dragged into another Great War.

Not too plausible I know, but I think it may have potential as a place for pulp adventure. If you want to up the weirdness, having Sternberg discover the passage to Aagartha he was obsessed with and let him arm his relic hunting agents with crystal powered ray guns and vimana saucers.

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Wouldn't a more likely outcome be that Mao quickly Finlandizes to the American point of view to avoid Chiang Kai Shek from smooshing them with American aid?

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The end result isn't actually that bad: a US siding with the central powers during WWI and overthrowing the balance of things is fairly plausible.

I doubt the ability of the US to maintain trade relations with both nations. Blockades in WWI were a dead serious business, and part of the major strategic plan of both nations. I could see the US throwing in their weight towards the end of the war. I could also see the U.S. fighting a primarily naval war against G.B. A souring of relations between the two during the naval arms race could give them an extreme incentive to gear up. A more equal naval situation would be disastrous for the allies. I seriously doubt the ability of the US to contribute troops to the fight though.

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Stalin is the Agressor here. Gandhi is jumping on the best option going. Typical of him.

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Fair enough.

Not a vast change over many other "Ottomans Win!" worlds but a fair bit of detail.

Local year is 1880. Basically a careful dose of treachery enables the Turks to capture Constantinople in 1422, rather than 1453 as in Homeline. That extra generation enables the very effective Turkish army to seize the Balkans and Italy early, then crunch their way through Europe. Ottoman forces captured Pope Alexander VI (Borgia) and forced him to sign Europe over to the Sultan. Alexander's ability to do this came from the (forged) Donation of Constantine. Note that doubts regarding the Donation justify a charge of high treason and death by a variety of interesting & prolonged ways.

Basically all of Europe and most of the East through NW India is Ottoman. There are some minor states that the Sultans have permitted to exist for practical reasons (like the Underground Railroad, it gives the rebels someplace to run to rather than fight & die in place.) Examples are northern Scandinavia, Vizcaya (the Basque territory), parts of Ireland and Wales, and a few others. Denmark was one but the Sultans decided they needed an example and crushed it.

Most Europeans remain Christian and see the Turk as a hated ruler -- but on the flip side (see "The Life of Brian") the Ottomans maintain certain order within Europe that had not been there before. Trade is up and banditry is down. But . . . there are costs.

The Turks are very against any form of innovation, social or technical, as that would threaten their rule. So players might have to figure out how to -- or even whether to -- resist the Ottoman and introduce innovations without drawing the attention of the Ottoman secret police, various informers, religious zealots (of all persuasions) etc.

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Have any people gotten across the Atlantic? Fishing stations could become settlements and a slower growth could give you a weaker more chaotic USA or cluster of nations with every kind of government from Icelandic Anarchy falling into dictatorship to primitive forms of democracy, to amalgams of European and Native American forms of government.

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The Americas That Might Have Been: Native American Social Systems through Time, by Julian Granberry, details an alternate history where full contact between Europe and the Americas was (for reasons unspecified) delayed until very recently. The emphasis is on how the Americas developed, with several obvious axes on the grinder and some fairly naive (to me) notions of how various groups might get along in the absence of European domination. On the other hand, there are some potentially useful alt-history maps and readable scholarship.

I would use this material to fill in one of the no-Enlightenment alternate timelines (Mongols overrun Europe, say).

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Try this idea, Centrum agents are trying to move a parallel from Q6 to Q9, not just for the reasources but to capture a large set of Homeline Cells for interrogation and mind control as a prelude to infiltration. However something has gone wrong. Moreover the stability of this parallel would threaten several years of work and send at least five rich parallels into Q5!

The Homelin agents have discovered both the plot and the fact that it's going to fail badly. But they don't know why it failed. Their first clue comes when an agent finds, in a used bookstore in Baston, a copy of DreamQuest of Unknown Kadath and Other Oneiric Tales. The local year is 1935 and Lovecraft had no Hardcover copies of his works printed in his lifetime.

The book in question has several texts by Lovecraft not written on most parallels were Lovecraft becomes an author. Amoung the anomalies are comic stories and two tales with a sympathic teen-aged female protagonist (Sally Walcott). Two other printed works by Lovecraft, one a collection of his best "Cthulhu cycle" tales and one work composed of seven novelas of from sixty to seventy-five pages each which combine elements of comedy, horror in a science fiction setting. Jack O'Neil a "Wizard" who knows magic is bunk, but can work spells when he's crazy, is the protagonist. Both Randolph Carter and Sally Walcott show up in the stories.

Lovecraft is alive, active, and living in his childhood home!

Both Centrum and Homeline want to know what happened and how it has altered this timeline. Meanwhile the Cabalist, who is a fanatical Lovecraft fan (and the model for Jack O'Neil) simply wants to A) escape their notice, B) protect H.P.L., and C) radically improve American armaments without foreign governments finding out until it's late for Germany to steal useful plans.

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You had me until you dragged Lovecraft into it.

I assume otherwise its just a normal 1935 near parallel?

I'd be fun to have worlds that have considerably more influence on the local quanta structure than others -- they'd have more people on them, and allow exactly the kind of situations described above

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Reality bleed over without physical jumpers seem interesting. Worlds that experience strong inertia style mythologies near some reality where such events actually take place. A kind of dreamtime parallel in which events have effects on those nearby more mundane ones.

Imagine Homeliners wondering where and how manipulators are acting only to find out that they aren't even in the same reality.

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While I agree that 'thulu is overplayed, a pan-dimentional creature would explain why this worldline is tied into the other worlds...

I agree that Cthulhu isn't an ideal creature to fit in. But some other kind of colossal cosmic monster, perhaps the store-brand version of Cthulhu, might be quite interesting.

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I feel that no one ever uses the man vs. nature adventure anymore. It's always man vs. the individual beatable monster/man.
My idea that it's simply a facet of reality that overrules those we know makes for more unique campaigns. But that's just my aesthetics.

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Yes.

A small number of explorers, fishermen, etc. made contact with the American peoples beginning in the sixteenth century -- as in Ezcalli (see Alternate Worlds II, GURPS 3rd Ed.) the horrible effects of exposure to European illness have occurred but when the Euros were not in a position to take advantage of it.

The Turks have trading stations in Central and South America and many of the Mexicans (near the coast) have converted to Islam. A majority of the interior populations, including the Aztec, have not and are actively opposed to the Turkish presence. So there is a de facto cold war going on.

The Ottoman empire would, of course, be quite happy to convert the Americas but don't want the spend the time, effort, or $. So there are religious volunteers who try to spread the teachings of the Prophet -- and who often wind up as sacrifices. It might be of interest to PCs to try to aid or rescue such -- who often don't want to be aided by unbelievers or rescued --martyrdom is often popular.

And, of course, the Americas seem to offer a refuge for Christian, Jewish, or other folk who do not wish to live under the rule of the Ottomans -- so there are "secret" (to the Ottomans) settlements in the Americas, often just behind the fall line on the east coast of what is in Homeline the USA. Of course, such settlements don't have the power to overawe or conquer the indigenous peoples -- so you get a much more negotiated, compromised civilization between the Native American and the European. Should be of interest for PC sociologists.

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The real reason why so many accessible time lines have people? Similar species dependent imaginations and story tropes bring them all together.
Meaning that a time line where the humans fall into truly alien ways of thought cause it to diverge and drift away.

Maybe too much Lovecraft could act as push.

Heck, that alone could be why most ultra tech universes are unavailable. It naturally produces "inhuman" cultures.

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Interesting thought...

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I like the basic idea that some world are unpredictable to Centrum's scientists, but please, my reallity seed was built around a mad Lovecraft fan (with magical powers).

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One way to have an interesting multiparallel Yog-Sothoth/Cthulhu set-up would be to take some ideas from George T. Wetzel's The Cthulhu Mythos: A Study. Wetzel's essay ties up several threads in Lovecraft's works with a fine insight. The richest of which is that Lovecraft's Dreamlands are the underworld of his Mythos. The more pleaseant areas are the equilivents of Elysium in the Greek Myths and the dark kingdoms of the gugs, ghouls, and the Plateau of Leng are the Tartalus.

If the Dreamlands/underworld cross connects serveral worlds, then a dreamer from one world could land up on any of a dozen others durring their dreams. And as our dreamselves act by the rules of the subconcious, your pal's dreamself could be a deadly foe if he was jelous of you. The walking self would keep unworthy impluses in check, but not the dreamself.

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Creepy, I actually had a dream like that. My naturally not fully aware but super powered self was acting in a real world plagued by destructive dreamers from ours.

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Divergence: 1912, the Titanic's Second Officer, David Blair, informed the rest of the crew of the location of his binoculars when he departed from the ship before its first crossing. On the 14th of April, the binoculars allowed the lookouts to spot the iceberg several seconds earlier.

Captain Edward Smith, informed of the approaching ice with more time to plan, orders engines to full forward instead of full reverse, counting on the thrust to assist the turn. The ship very nearly escapes unscathed- but one central compartment is punctured. A dozen sailors and two idiot passengers messing about in a cargo hold are locked in when the bulkheads are sealed, but the designer believes the ship can complete the voyage on her own power.

The news of the Titanic's now-proven unsinkabilty reaches the mainland with the dawn. She later spends 8 months in a New York dry-dock for repairs, but virtually all the passengers are impressed. It is a confirmation of the western ideal of technology triumphing over the hazards of nature.

Of course, the subtle knock-on effects are firstly that there is no disaster to catalyze the formation of safety regulations in shipping. Secondly, a broader lack of concern for safety continues decades longer in this TL. Most likely, the opening period of WWII sees catastrophic losses during German submarine warfare, since there are fewer lifeboats and more fragile ships.

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Well, now we know where all those movies that show No OSHA Compliance are set... <g>

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The U-Boat sinkings in WWI were numerous and wide spread, lack of lifeboats would be discovered then.

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Quite. But by then, you have a fleet of under-equipped ships in the middle of a war. I imagine that massive casualties from German action would be less likely to result in "we need to make ships safer" and instead, "we need to teach those Germans a lesson!"

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And add lost more inflatable lifeboats the ships. Adding solid ones would require time in a shipyard.

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I haven't worked out the ramifications of this divergence point, so it really is more of a seed than a setting, and it is rather grim, but, here goes:

In the immediate aftermath of the fall of the USSR, there was concern that nuclear materials or expertise might wind up on the black market. Imagine if the 1993 WTC bombing was done with a small atomic weapon instead of a conventional truck bomb. You'd see fires all over the area, thousands would die in a matter of seconds, the rescue efforts would be horrible, with under equipped rescuers exposed to radiation and the toxic output of the fires. The terrorists would most likely claim to have the potential for another such attack, whether it was true or not. The USA would be terrified, angry, and still have a military at Cold War levels of funding. The call for retaliatory strikes would be intense as well.

I think you could set some interesting if rather grim espionage scenarios in the earlier and angrier war on terror the attacks would produce. Maybe an infinity agent could fall afoul of much tighter background checks and wind up being sent via extraordinary rendition to be questioned in the third world. It would require a careful balance of subtlety and force to avoid having the secret compromised or triggering even more war in this very paranoid reality.

Of course, it would depend on your group's tolerances for such things whether it would actually be any fun.

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Also some collapsible lifeboats, which would be less easily stored than inflatables, but would also require little or no shipyard work, AFAICT, and would be less sinkable.

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Bacon

In most worlds Francis Bacon's father dies in 1579 and leaves Francis Bacon without a proper inheiritance or the patronage needed to break into the higer levels of the court. In this world Bacon's father lives until 1592. Francis Bacon achieves major court satus early and is a valued ally to his uncle (in most worlds his uncle saw him as a useful cat's paw rather than someone suited for high positions, at least those he could get for his own sons) and is secure in his status. Thus unlike our world's Francis Bacon...

more later

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On Bacon: What do you imagine him doing differently? Let's say that with more money and more favor from Burghley, he successfully weds Elizabeth Hatton, is named Attorney-General and Keeper of the Rolls - perhaps we can go for broke and have him receive a knighthood from Elizabeth. He and his wife have a couple of children. When James comes to the throne, he still makes the same basic miscalculations - Parliament and James despise each other, Bacon curries favor with James and gets an Earldom out of it eventually, Parliament responds by booting him out of government. He writes philosophy in his mandatory retirement. Granted, William Bacon, 2nd Earl of St. Albans, could be interesting during Commonwealth times...anyway, I don't see how you could possibly give Bacon a greater effect on scientific tradition than he had. He could reform the civil law along modern lines, but not criminal law. Unless you're using his as the root for the Commonwealth being more like a modern state in its conception of individual rights, and thus maybe longer lived?

At Tim - I like it, but politics seem likely to make it divisive; somebody at my table, possibly me, seems likely to earn a black eye over it.

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For groups with thick skin, one could play with real world politics quite a bit.

9/11 terrorists with even a single nuke might lead to laws that render even our rights destroying Patriot Act look tame by comparison.

Hussain actually having WMDs vindicating W.'s apparent refusal to listen to legitimate intelligence sources.

Tough to pull off without upsetting any gamers, but grounds for very interesting close parallels.

There's always the chance of Devil's Advocates working far better than peaceful dialogues. Like how nothing helped fight antisemitism more than the Holocaust.

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I'm responding to certain things I found in the book The Jewel House. But I ran out of time.

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Basically Francis Bacon was insecure about his status as a nobleman, because of both his lack of preferment and his finacial troubles. This is outlined in The Jewel House a work on science in Elizabethan London.

In our world Bacon pretty much promotes a few of science which is elitist and rejects physical labour practical activity. It takes the 19th century to undo much of the damage. In this world Francis Bacon sees science in a more complex light. The example he sets is like attractive to elites, but leads to the Universities embracing the actual Elizabethan Scientific culture. When the 1960's roll round, the Left doesn't embrace a anti-science veiwpoint. Science progresses more swiftly after 1970.

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I think things could well have changed enough that the 20th century would be very different. The anti-science Left of the 1960s seems plausibly due to the enthusiasm for applying science to warfare of WWII and the Cold War, and if those circumstances don't happen, things will be different.

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Bacon did work to wrap Science up as an elite pursuit/cultural function. Although Marx, Wells, Verne, and many others promoted science as a radical force (which it is because it relentlessly changes the world) the Baconian elite narrative of science's history and origins was never effectively attacked. Even today the anti-science forces on the far left and far right use the elitist Baconian narrative to attack science.

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It has been effectively ignored by many, though. Science and its applications has been my family's route into the middle classes; we've never valued philosophical arguments above practical ones.

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Science is practical, and the scientific method is one hell of a practical philosophy.
But for the most part I'm with you on the waste of time that is navel gazing "monkey chatter".

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Try this idea, steal from the Order of the HourGlass. Mystic Time Travelers, or rather they think they're time travelers, they're really world-hoppers.

Picture a Finish Mystic who is way to impressed with The Egyptian bringing maize, potatoes, citris fruit, sugar cane, mulberries, silk worms, and bannannas to an Echo going through the Amarna Period.

Picture a romantic royalist rescuing Mary Queen of Scots before she goes into England and taking her and her child to France.

Picture a Russian Old Believer trying to alter the course of Razin's revolt against Tsar Alexis to prevent the Devil Tsar Peter from ever being born to pollute Russia's purity!

After the series of madcap chases of people neither Homeline nor Centrum understand (though Homeline will have a clear advantage) trace the interlopers to their world and get into a fight with all the scary factions there.

Both the Architecs and the Chinese factions will be interested in the possibilities of world-jumping. Homeline, Centrum, the Cabal, heck even Reich-5 would be eger to shut them down.

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Hmm... I like that idea a lot, actually. There's a specific ritual that connects two echos, one a century ahead of the other, and then around the 1860s in the "past" timeline some rednecks show up in the South with coffee, food, boots, and AK-47s, and then the south starts winning and- hey, wait a minute! This is just Guns of the South!

Dang it, why do all my ideas turn into the South winning the civil war?

Speaking of the south...

Two similar-looking twin brothers show up at a recording studio in 1954- one's named Jessie, and he sings, and the other one plays guitar. He's shy. Years later, Jessie Presley and his "little brother" (he's only 32 minutes younger) take the united states by storm.

Music in this timeline sounds like classic rock and roll but often enough has different performers, songs, and themes. It turns out that TWO Presleys just don't have the same cultural intensity as one, and instead of being a worldwide rock-and-roll ambassador, the brothers merely reinvent popular culture and music in the United States.

As a result, the western world is less united, less focused on the US. Having a weaker common culture leads to the west facing the Soviets with less resolve. It's not a vast difference, but a subtle, self-reinforcing one. Today, 1982, Elvis has retired to a small commune in Tennessee and Jessie is still out living the life in Vegas (Their growing feud made news back while it was still hot in the mid 70s, but they get along better now). The United States is growing more paranoid than ever as a new downturn sets in the first world and West Germany votes to reunify with the East as Communist. The Soviets are outwardly booming but secretly propping themselves up by draining the resources of each new satellite state they scoop up; their evident success in Space only adds to the apparent Communist superiority.

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I can see why the US might be not so attractive, but I can't see why the soviet union is so attractive in this timeline that West Germany voluntarily wants to join them. There has to be something else there.

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Yeah, the far more likely option is a demilitarized united Germany, as proposed several times historically; Germany can reunite but cannot be a part of NATO or the Warsaw Pact and basically isn't allowed to have its own military. Which is still, from the point of a present-day occupant of our worldline looking back, a loss for the West.