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Astromancer 04-02-2015 09:34 AM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
Try this idea, after WWII Stalin doubled down on brutality in forcing Russia to his will. Most recent historians of Soviet era Russia are moving away from the old Paranoia theory to the belief that Stalin was modeling his rule on Maximilien Robespierre's Terror Virtue philosophy. In Robespierre's words, "If virtue be the spring of a popular government in times of peace, the spring of that government during a revolution is virtue combined with terror: virtue, without which terror is destructive; terror, without which virtue is impotent. Terror is only justice prompt, severe and inflexible; it is then an emanation of virtue; it is less a distinct principle than a natural consequence of the general principle of democracy, applied to the most pressing wants of the country ... The government in a revolution is the despotism of liberty against tyranny." Stalin would have removed any reference to democracy as reactionary, but he was following a similarly merciless creed with as little chance of his actions leading to anything good.

Try the idea of a world were Stalin lauches into his post-WWII terror and is assassinated. Russia, split amoung Communist factions of all types and varieties, falls into civil war in late 1946. The Cold War never happens. Marauding factions of unpaid Red Army troops riot throughout Eastern Europe forcing the French, Brits, and Americans, to march east.

Set the campaign in a vast millitary morrass in Russia in 1947. I see this as a Q6 world. Centrum seeks influence in Britain, Germany, and Russia. Homeline is trying to thwart them. Homeline's China doesn't mind that, lacking Stalin's backing, Mao has been purged. But they don't want Chiang Kai-shek taking over China simply because America still backs him!

Basically, this is WWII round two. Germany, Italy, and Japan, are out. Russia is fighting Russia and as in the Russian Revolution of 1917, the West is in the game too.

patchwork 04-02-2015 04:31 PM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
I think you have to go further back then that to get any sort of internal friction - that's literally the most cohesive, loyal and disciplined point in the entirety of Soviet history, because holy ****, Hitler. There isn't anybody with any rank who wants Stalin dead, and if he wound up dead there isn't any question as to who succeeds him - Molotov, by unanimous vote of the Central Committee.

I think you would have to go back to 1942 and let Hitler take Moscow. It will require a disaster of that magnitude - and the resulting shift of the Eastern from from mostly conventional to mostly partisan - to produce real differences among the senior Soviets in that era.

That said, I agree it would be interesting.

Astromancer 04-04-2015 12:43 PM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by patchwork (Post 1887300)
I think you have to go further back then that to get any sort of internal friction - that's literally the most cohesive, loyal and disciplined point in the entirety of Soviet history, because holy ****, Hitler. There isn't anybody with any rank who wants Stalin dead, and if he wound up dead there isn't any question as to who succeeds him - Molotov, by unanimous vote of the Central Committee.

I think you would have to go back to 1942 and let Hitler take Moscow. It will require a disaster of that magnitude - and the resulting shift of the Eastern from from mostly conventional to mostly partisan - to produce real differences among the senior Soviets in that era.

That said, I agree it would be interesting.

I kind of want Hitler dead and all that before launching into a big partners switch. But Civil Wars in China and Russia in 1947 would pull everybody in. Besides someone up the thread wanted a Franco-German alliance during a war. So it seemed to me that, France looking to restore her Glory and Germany looking for a ticket back to full human status after the exposure of the Death Camps, was the best opportunity.

patchwork 04-04-2015 08:26 PM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
I don't think that's incompatible; let the Nazis take Moscow in '42, then someone (it barely matters who) assassinate Hitler; suddenly Europe consists of Britain, Vichy France, and a vast swathe of heavily armed disorder. Good luck and have fun.

PTTG 04-05-2015 11:26 AM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1887779)
I kind of want Hitler dead and all that before launching into a big partners switch. But Civil Wars in China and Russia in 1947 would pull everybody in. Besides someone up the thread wanted a Franco-German alliance during a war. So it seemed to me that, France looking to restore her Glory and Germany looking for a ticket back to full human status after the exposure of the Death Camps, was the best opportunity.

That does sound interesting. To be fair, that was a mispost from an alternate dimension- that sort of thing tends to happen on the first of April...

Astromancer 04-07-2015 09:44 AM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
Having read The Tigress of Forli I think that Caterina Riario Sforza de' Medici (wikipedia article here) is a great point to work historical changes from. Prevent her first marriage to Girolamo Riario and arrange for her to marry Giovanni il Popolano, not as her third marrage, but when they are in their teens, and watch Italian history jump.

Of course, there are several change points in her life that could have radically altered Italian history. The woman nearly captured Cesare Borgia (no doubt that she would have treated him far better than he treated her.) Renaissance Italy is so wild and strange and Caterina would be a wonderful strange attractor. Especially as she's not only beautiful, smart, profoundly well educated, politically skilled and audacious, and charming, but she was a skilled warrior and a master swordswoman.

Astromancer 04-09-2015 12:36 PM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
I just finished Trickster Travels by Natalie Zemon Davis. Ms. Davis finishes her book with an alternate history of her own. Basically Al-Hasan al-Wazzan meets Rabelais and they are both far better and more important authors. A fun thought.

But focusing on Leo Africanus (Al-Hasan al-Wazzan), the man is made for crosstimers. After his mid-40's we know nothing about him. He is a widenly traveled man, who is very well educated and speaks a unusual set of languages. He's wonderfully placed to promote intercultural exchange at a point in history were that could bring vast changes. The man is a goldmine of exotic alternate worlds.

Astromancer 04-13-2015 10:19 AM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
I'm reading The Queen's Bed. Not only do several interesting alternate histories come out of weddings and children for Elizabeth I, the marriage negotiaions could lead to alternate wars and alliences. Picture the Duke of Anjou actually getting married to Elizabeth, she was willing, and their having a child in 1580. Then the Duke death on schedule. The struggles to married Elizabeth's daughter (let's call her Anne) would be epic. Given that our hypothetical Anne would be the child of the Tudor, Howard, Valos, and Medici, families, she'd be tough herself.

PTTG 04-13-2015 05:04 PM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
Do you ever sleep, or is it just reading awesome books?

I took a look at Leo Africanus. There are just plain too few alternate histories that focus on changes in Africa.

One could create a very different world by having an iron-working central-african culture just keep growing. I'll have to do some wikipedia reading and try to come up with some ideas, but I think it's feasable to build an advanced-tech-level alternate in that way. Maybe it's 1760 and the globe-spanning colonies of African empires are using laser weapons and drones to suppress the European and Asian barbarians even as they play proxy wars in the New World.

Astromancer 04-14-2015 10:25 AM

Re: New Reality Seeds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PTTG (Post 1890627)
Do you ever sleep, or is it just reading awesome books?

You're not the first to ask.

Quote:

I took a look at Leo Africanus. There are just plain too few alternate histories that focus on changes in Africa.

One could create a very different world by having an iron-working central-african culture just keep growing. I'll have to do some wikipedia reading and try to come up with some ideas, but I think it's feasable to build an advanced-tech-level alternate in that way. Maybe it's 1760 and the globe-spanning colonies of African empires are using laser weapons and drones to suppress the European and Asian barbarians even as they play proxy wars in the New World.
You might read David Keys especially his book Catastrophe. Keys makes a case that East africa was absorbing Hindu/Indian cultural influences and was on the way to becoming it's own distinctive high civilisation with a strong South Asian influence when a massive climate disruption changed the local disease climate and forced a switch from agriculture to pastoralism.

But any big change in Africa would require an earlier introduction of high-yield food crops.


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