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-   -   Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grappling (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=119075)

Ulzgoroth 11-04-2013 10:39 AM
Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 1673053)
Short version is using arms without hands can be treated with No Manipulators if that level of grit is required. I think - from memory - that is a -30% to trained st. That's basically -1 per die.
Interestingly, that looks to be the same both for No Fine Manipulators and for "Arms that do not have a hand, suction cups, gecko-hairs, or hooking claws – but enough of a grip to not qualify for No Fine Manipulators".

(No Manipulators necessarily precludes having limbs to grapple with.)

DouglasCole 11-04-2013 12:02 PM
Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1673055)
Interestingly, that looks to be the same both for No Fine Manipulators and for "Arms that do not have a hand, suction cups, gecko-hairs, or hooking claws – but enough of a grip to not qualify for No Fine Manipulators".

(No Manipulators necessarily precludes having limbs to grapple with.)
Yeah, there's an erratum there I'm working w Steven on.

Specifically, drop "fine" and make it not enough to qualify for no Manipulators. I took there to be a continuum from NFM to NM to No Arms.

sir_pudding 11-04-2013 12:14 PM
Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 1673003)
whcih means an AoA(Determined)/Telegraphic attack would offset +5 to hit for a pseudo-melee "ranged" attack with a gun.
Shouldn't that be +8? Determined attack for melee weapons is +4 and so is Telegraphic attack.

DouglasCole 11-04-2013 12:45 PM
Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1673120)
Shouldn't that be +8? Determined attack for melee weapons is +4 and so is Telegraphic attack.
Yes, it should.

Ulzgoroth 11-04-2013 12:56 PM
Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 1673116)
Yeah, there's an erratum there I'm working w Steven on.

Specifically, drop "fine" and make it not enough to qualify for no Manipulators. I took there to be a continuum from NFM to NM to No Arms.
Doesn't No Manipulators imply no arms and then some? As Technical Grappling implies, you can't make any limb strikes with No Manipulators, and can't leg grapple.

DouglasCole 11-04-2013 03:44 PM
Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1673146)
Doesn't No Manipulators imply no arms and then some? As Technical Grappling implies, you can't make any limb strikes with No Manipulators, and can't leg grapple.
Rereading, you're right. No Manipulators is many things, among which is shorthand for SNAKE.

No Fine Manipulators is -40% and has the 0.3xST instead of 0.5xST impact for an arm (or 0.6xST for a pair of arms).

No Grasping Hand seems to say, currently, that "yes, you can manipulate objects, perform repairs, and whatnot, but your grip is still just as bas as with No Fine Manipulators." It is also currently worth -40%.

I'll take this offline, and see what we see.


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