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-   -   Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=116640)

Anthony 09-18-2013 03:56 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha (Post 1647308)
The constant income stream is the same as the human worker, so that's a wash

It's not a wash. Seriously, just use an amortization calculator, this is the sort of problem they're designed for. And 11% is high, it's equivalent to a P/E ratio of 9, 7% is a better estimate (P/E ratio of 14).

Ze'Manel Cunha 09-18-2013 04:07 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1647321)
It's not a wash. Seriously, just use an amortization calculator, this is the sort of problem they're designed for. And 11% is high, it's equivalent to a P/E ratio of 9, 7% is a better estimate (P/E ratio of 14).

11% may not cover it, depending on how risky people consider it to be, you can get over 14% buying Ukrainian bonds right now, but no one is rushing out to do that either.

jeff_wilson 09-18-2013 04:10 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 1647112)
Also, the issues of slavery are suddenly no longer black-and-white when

I think Kyiv just pulled Richmond, Virginia into its Schwarzschild radius!

Anthony 09-18-2013 04:19 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha (Post 1647329)
11% may not cover it, depending on how risky people consider it to be.

The risk is incorporated into the expected lifespan of the bioroid -- if a bioroid lasts for 25 years and I'm only amortizing over 15 years, it means I think that the mean useful lifespan (before failure, obsolescence, or irrelevance) is only 15 years. If the bioroid is saving you $2,400/month (i.e. its maintenance is $1,200) the $150k bioroid is a reasonable investment (7% APR) if you expect it to last 6.5 years, at the end of which period it has a value of zero.

MatthewVilter 09-18-2013 05:08 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Really human wages and investment in/upkeep of bioroids will compete in the labor market and reach some kind of equilibrium (probably where it makes sense for some employers to commission bioroids and others to hire humans).

You may end up in a situation where the choice is dictated by the current availability of credit.

Ze'Manel Cunha 09-18-2013 05:12 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter (Post 1647384)
Really human wages and investment in/upkeep of bioroids will compete in the labor market and reach some kind of equilibrium (probably where it makes sense for some employers to commission bioroids and others to hire humans).

You may end up in a situation where the choice is dictated by the current availability of credit.

Well said, that's what I should've said instead of going on and on about interest rates.

Anthony 09-18-2013 05:23 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter (Post 1647384)
Really human wages and investment in/upkeep of bioroids will compete in the labor market and reach some kind of equilibrium.

The problem is that the equilibrium might be at zero of one or the other. Getting a human to trained adult status may well cost more than $150,000 (21 years x $600/mo = $151,200), and someone is paying that cost.

MatthewVilter 09-18-2013 05:32 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1647394)
The problem is that the equilibrium might be at zero of one or the other. The problem is that getting a human to trained adult status may well cost more than $150,000 (21 years x $600/mo = $151,200), and someone is paying that cost.

If the only alternative on the market is uncompetitive wouldn't the price of bioroids go up?

Ulzgoroth 09-18-2013 05:44 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter (Post 1647402)
If the only alternative on the market is uncompetitive wouldn't the price of bioroids go up?

Not if bioroid prices emerge from competition between bioroid suppliers rather than the maximum anyone would be willing to pay for one.

Ze'Manel Cunha 09-18-2013 06:00 PM

Re: Nanofabricators, DRM and Forced Scarcity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1647415)
Not if bioroid prices emerge from competition between bioroid suppliers rather than the maximum anyone would be willing to pay for one.

Minimum price will still be the materials, power and Nanofac time to produce and usage, which costs can be significant even before any profit margin comes into play.


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