Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

Why would we not say that a "full-fledged morningstar" is the thing called a morningstar higher up in the same stat blocks..?

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

Because this one is bigger.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

I feel you may be confusing "it wasn't done" for "it can't be done". Morningstars certainly weren't used in both hands, because it was totally impractical. They were developed as battlefield weapons, and a front-line warrior needs a shield to protect himself and his allies. An off-hand weapon is simply not helpful. Nunchucks, on the other hand, are a civilian adaption of the flail. Civilian weapons face very different conditions which make dual-wielding a feasible, even attractive, option.

Realistically, a morningstar's Min ST 12 should be more of a hindrance than it is in GURPS. A fighter swinging a pair of 6lb morningstars will fatigue far faster than one twirling a couple of 2lb nunchucks, even if he's got plenty of ST for either one. But the same would apply to swinging a pair of ST 12 maces, and to a lesser extent the wide range of 1-handed ST 11 weapons. At present that is well below the resolution of GURPS.

All of this pretty much goes out the window in a cinematic game, of course. There you'll see a mish-mash of civilian and soldierly weapons and styles. If allowing DWA to be improved at all, I wouldn't single out morningstars as being inappropriate.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

Yes, but it's not the same thing. The original comparison was between Nunchaku and Morningstars, not between Nunchaku and everything covered by any Skill that has "Flail" in the name.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

"A skill's core uses aren't eligible" catches this one. The actual roll against Dual-Weapon Attack is for core use: standard attacks. You can have Technique Adaptation only for peripheral attacks. It would take a very lawyer-like reading to claim, "Attacking once with one hand is a core use, sure, but once you do it with both hands at once, that changes." That would be like saying it's okay to use Technique Adaptation to get +4 to Wrestling as long as you insist that it only covers two-handed grapples.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

Oh well. I hate when my own ideas ("Sean, we need to cover those ridiculous one-technique masters from kung fu movies!") cut down on the total awesome of a campaign.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

I would disallow most technique mastery perks on general principal, and I thought this was extreme myself, hence the thread.

I think you picked a poor example however, as Wrestling's default is a two handed grapple and has no technique listed in chapter 3 of MA, IIRC, and DWA is a technique that starts out as a skill feet at -4.

If a player says "I'm going to grapple him" I assume he's using two hands by default, and if they say "I attack with my sword" I assume they are attacking with one. Looks like a different animal to me.

Sure DWA would become your default if you improved it to Skill (or higher), but I think that's true of any widely useful technique you've bought up to skill (or higher).

And it does have it's drawbacks, no benefit in resisting feints, or bonus to parry, doesn't help with skill on added attacks on Extra Attack or AoA, and you loose the benefit if you drop a weapon or are disarmed... so that's why I thought it was at least possibly legal.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

I'm with you there. It seems bizarre to me that DWA would be barred as a "core use of skill", when techniques like Kicking are explicitly allowed.

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

DWA is already a technique that is allowed to be improved to the limit of the defining skill.

And so is Kicking. You can't improve kicking past Karate (or Brawling if it's a technique of Brawling also).

And as GM I wouldn't allow kicking to be extended because I feel that kicking is also a core use of Karate. Buying off the -2 penalty with a technique is fine, but making Kicking even better sounds wrong to me

Re: [MA] Technique Mastery for DWA?
 

By RAW, Technique Mastery is unambiguously allowed for Kicking (if allowing TM at all). So, where would you draw the line? How about Upper Cut, Knee Strike, or Exotic Hand Strike? Those certainly aren't "core" techniques, but after improving them they may replace basic attacks. And if barring those, what would you allow, if anything?

The sense I get from this whole discussion is that people think TM is a point crock and shouldn't be allowed at all. I haven't had that experience with it. As Peter says, it's helpful to represent some of the hyper-specialized martial artists from fiction.