Defaults; how do they work
 

Now, I've read over the rules, and the FAQ, and I've always thought that, when you put 4pts into, say, Spear from Staff -2, that you now have the Spear skill at Staff -1. But my GM is thinking that those 4pts are only improving the default, not saying you actually have the skill.

Can anyone clear this up? I hope my GM's interpretation is wrong, it seems both unrealistic and bad/unnecessarily complicated for a game.

Thanks ahead of time.

EDIT: My GM seems to think that their interpretation is realistic. That seems to be a huge thing in our debate.

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

If you put points into the skill, you have the skill. The only exception is if you use a dabbler perk to have effective skill above the default, but not high enough to say you *really* know the skill.

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

Say that you have DX 12, and you put 4 points into Spear. That gives you Spear-13.

Your default in Staff is either DX-5 or Spear-2; that is, you have either Staff-7 or Staff-11, whichever is better. Obviously you take Staff-11! That's equivalent to what you would get if you didn't have Spear, and you put 1 point into Staff.

Now, say that you want to have Staff-13. If you didn't have Spear, you would have to put 4 points into Staff. But you get Staff-11 free from Spear-13. So you only have to pay the difference between Staff-11 and Staff-13, which is 3 points. You get a discount, in other words.

Bill Stoddard

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

Assigning points to Staff does not give you points in Spear, and so assigning points to Staff does not give you the Spear skill. Instead, it improves the default value of Spear to the better of DX-5 or Staff-2. It remains a default and not a skill (meaning you can't put points into Spear Techniques unless you put points into Spear first). You can then assign points to Spear so as to improve it from the default, but until you spend points in Spear it is still a use of the Staff skill.

Training in Staff Fighting makes you better at Spear Fighting, but it doesn't train you in Spear Fighting.

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

But putting even a single point into Spear, regardless of how or why, makes it so I have all benefits of having the Spear skill (aka, I have it, nothing withheld)?

To give a similar situation, I have Broadsword at DX+10. Assuming DX10, I have it at 20. I also have Rapier at 16 (Broadsword -4). I don't get any of the benefits of fencing, according to B173. If I put 4pts into Rapier, do I now? Can I do the same by putting only 1 pt into Rapier, to signify that I have Rapier 16, and not a default of 16?

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

From:

DX 10
Broadsword DX/A - DX+10 20 [40]
Rapid DX/A - DX+6 16 [0]

To:

DX 10
Broadsword DX/A - DX+10 20 [40]
Rapier DX/A - DX+7 17 [4]

... is legal and gives you all the benefits of having the Rapier skill.

To:

DX 10
Broadsword DX/A - DX+10 20 [40]
Rapier DX/A - DX+6 16 [1]

... is not legal and gives you no benefits. You must spend the difference in point cost between your new level and your default level; partial expenditures don't do anything. A permissive GM may allow a custom perk to do so, but it doesn't sound like that's the way to bet at the moment.

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

I imagine the bone of contention here is the +2 to Parry with Staff, and whether this counts as a "special defense" for purposes of this bit:

For other purposes, like just rolling to hit, there's no difference between "not having the skill, but having it at default N" and "having the skill at N".

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

If so, the answer is easy: Weapon Adaption (Spear to Staff) [1] allows you to use Spear-weapons as if they were Staff-weapons, with all the benefits of them being Staff-weapons such as the +2 to Parry. I'm not sure thats' the concern though.

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

The problem is that that Weapon Adaptation is a grossly unrealistic perk in most possible forms, and should be strictly controlled by any GM who is trying for a game more serious than a Marx brothers film. So invoking it doesn't fix anything.

Re: Defaults; how do they work
 

Your GM is wrong by the rules as written. If you put enough points into it to raise it, you now have the skill for all purposes. Not that I'm sure why it matters.