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Ogbendog 12-28-2005 04:52 PM

Gurps Midnight
 
Is anyone here familiar with the Midnight setting? It's d20, from Fantasy flight games; basically LorR, but Sauron WON.

So Evil (mostly) rules the world. Magic is rare, illegal, hard to come by, magical healing even more so. I've not read it, but it looked like it could be fun to do in GURPs.

I was thinking making most of the world Necromantically aspected, so a bonus to necromantic spells, and a penalty to healing

whswhs 12-28-2005 09:43 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogbendog
Is anyone here familiar with the Midnight setting? It's d20, from Fantasy flight games; basically LorR, but Sauron WON.

I independently came up with this premise four years back, and ran a campaign based on it in 2003-2004. I used Big Eyes Small Mouth for it, though. It worked very well; the opening credits episodes where the player characters came together from all over Middle-Earth in ruins were genuinely horrifying to run.

Erebus 12-29-2005 01:23 AM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
I'm pretty sure Against the Shadow had a gurps conversion at some point.

http://www.againsttheshadow.org/

The GURPS conversion is in downloads under general.

At least it used to be...

synistar 07-16-2008 03:39 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erebus
I'm pretty sure Against the Shadow had a gurps conversion at some point.

http://www.againsttheshadow.org/

The GURPS conversion is in downloads under general.

At least it used to be...

Here are the first bits of a GURPS4 conversion of that document (originally by Werner H. Hartmann ):

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURPS_Midnight 4
Elf, snow: 60pts.

Advantages: DX+2 [40], Combat Reflexes [15], Extended Lifespan x3 [6], Extra Spell Energy +2 [4], Perception +2 [10], Will +1 [5], plus Knacks worth a total of up to 10 points;

Disadvantages: HT-1 [-10], Racial Enemy (Shadow forces, 6 or less) [-20]

Lenses:
Snow Elf Culture: 7 pts.
Bow at DX+0 [2], Main-Gauche at DX+0 [2], Naturalist at IQ-2 [1], Survival (Arctic) at Per+0 [2]


Elf, forest: 62 pts.

Advantages: DX+2 [40], Combat Reflexes [15], Extended Lifespan x3 [6], Extra Spell Energy +3 [6], Will +1 [5], plus Knacks worth a total of up to 20 points.

Disadvantages: HT-1 [-10], Racial Enemy (Shadow forces, 6-) [-20]

Lenses:
Forest Elf Culture: 8pts.
Bow at DX+0 [2], Broadsword at DX+0 [2], Naturalist at IQ-1 [2], Survival (Woodlands) at Per+0 [2]

The original version relied on GURPS 3 style knacks to represent their D&D innate spell-like abilities. I am still trying to figure out how to represent this.
Edit: Extra Spell Energy is part of the custom magic system that I am probably going to mostly keep intact (unless Thaumatology changes my mind).

Eltharon 07-16-2008 04:58 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Why are the elves racial enemies different costs, despite being identical?

synistar 07-16-2008 06:38 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltharon
Why are the elves racial enemies different costs, despite being identical?

Whoops that is a typo. They should both be -20. Corrected.

synistar 07-16-2008 08:56 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Here are new versions using Spell Perks (modeled on the Leprechaun Charms in DF3):

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURPS Midnight 4e
Elf, snow: 55pts.
Advantages: DX+2 [40], Combat Reflexes [15], Extended Lifespan x3 [6], Extra Spell Energy +2 [4], Perception +1 [5], Will +1 [5], Magery 0 [5], Spell Perk x2 [2], Temperature Tolerance 3 (cold) [3].

Disadvantages: ST-1 [-10], Racial Enemy (Shadow forces, 6 or less) [-20]

Lenses:
Snow Elf Culture: 7 pts.
Bow at DX+0 [2], Main-Gauche at DX+0 [2], Naturalist at IQ-2 [1], Survival (Arctic) at Per+0 [2]


Elf, forest: 45 pts.
Advantages: DX+2 [40], Combat Reflexes [15], Extended Lifespan x3 [6], Extra Spell Energy +3 [6], Perception +1 [5], Will +1 [5], Magery 0 [5], Spell Perk x3 [3].

Disadvantages: ST-1 [-10], Racial Enemy (Shadow forces, 6 or less) [-20].

Lenses:
Forest Elf Culture: 8pts.
Bow at DX+0 [2], Broadsword at DX+0 [2], Naturalist at IQ-1 [2], Survival (Woodlands) at Per+0 [2].

Elf, sea: 54pts.
Advantages: DX+2 [40], Breath Holding 1 [2], Combat Reflexes [15], Extended Lifespan x3 [6], Extra Spell Energy +2 [4], Perception +1 [5], Will +1 [5], Magery 0 [5], Spell Perk x2 [2].

Disadvantages: ST-1 [-10], Racial Enemy (Shadow forces, 6 or less) [-20].

Lenses:
Sea Elf Culture: 9pts.
Spear at DX+0 [2], Spear Throwing at DX+1 [2], Naturalist at IQ-2 [1], Survival (Island/Coastal) at Per+0 [2], Swimming at HT+1 [2]

Elf, jungle: 57 pts.
Advantages: DX+2 [40], Combat Reflexes [15], Extended Lifespan x3 [6], Extra Spell Energy +2 [4], Perception+2 [10], Will +1 [5], Magery 0 [5], Spell Perk x2 [2].

Disadvantages: HT-1 [-10], Racial Enemy (Shadow forces, 6 or less) [-20]
Lenses:
Jungle Elf Culture: 8pts.: Bow at DX-1 [1], Main-Gauche at DX+1 [4], Naturalist at IQ-2 [1], Survival (Jungle) at Per+0 [2].

Spell Perks: Some races have spell perks. Spell perks are similar to Fixed Magic from GURPS Fantasy but they work a little differently. Each spell perk costs one CP and allows the character to learn one spell that has no spell prerequisites (all other prerequisites are ignored -- e.g. Magery levels). Normal skill cost is still paid for the spell. Magery levels affect it normally if applicable. The GM has final say as to which spells can be taken as Spell Perks and may also make other spells available as perks.


Gold & Appel Inc 07-16-2008 09:27 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogbendog
basically LorR, but Sauron WON.

So Evil (mostly) rules the world. Magic is rare, illegal, hard to come by, magical healing even more so. I've not read it, but it looked like it could be fun to do in GURPs.

I was thinking making most of the world Necromantically aspected, so a bonus to necromantic spells, and a penalty to healing

I get that the whole "Necromancy is easy / Healing is hard" thing is a "dark fantasy" standard, but honestly I'm not really seeing how it fits in here if we're talking about a literal victory by the character Sauron over the actual setting Middle Earth and not using those terms as shorthand for "a typical-looking fantasy setting that has been subjugated by its in-house BBEG."

I see no reason to believe that Sauron Victorious would be capable of altering the worldwide aspect of the mana at all, or that he'd want to make it easier for people to contact and control the dead if he could. Ghosts are a fact of the setting, not something particularly associated with Mordor outside of its epic battlefields littered with enough violent death to Necromantically aspect a nursery.

I think we'd see it go in the direction of "wizards still do whatever they think they're supposed to do unless directly mind-controlled on an individual basis, but it's harder for them to accomplish anything without acting directly because the population fears what Sauron will do to them if they play along."

Under this model, Healers are still hard to come by because a) They always were, it's a major plot point when somebody gets brought back from death's door in this setting and because b) They mostly work for Sauron, providing one of the things that his free-willed minion majority would logically desire. Disloyal healers suffer no environmental penalties to spellcasting, they're just hard to find because they're put to the sword by the regime whenever possible.

synistar 07-16-2008 09:54 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
I get that the whole "Necromancy is easy / Healing is hard" thing is a "dark fantasy" standard, but honestly I'm not really seeing how it fits in here if we're talking about a literal victory by the character Sauron over the actual setting Middle Earth and not using those terms as shorthand for "a typical-looking fantasy setting that has been subjugated by its in-house BBEG."
...

I will not dispute your points about an alternate Middle Earth. But Midnight is not set in Middle Earth (FFG's website). Midnight's BBEG, Izrador, is actually an evil chaos god that took control of the world (as an unintended side effect of being cast down by the other gods). All other gods are locked out of the world and the only clerics left are Izrador's. So the "Shadow" that is changing the metaphysics of the world of Midnight is directly linked to the evil god. The setting is pretty grim with most "fey" races being actively hunted by Izrador's priests and orc and humanoid armies, undead roaming the land, and everyone else subjugated under corrupt human governments and evil clergy.

Gold & Appel Inc 07-16-2008 10:07 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by synistar
But Midnight is not set in Middle Earth

Gotcha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synistar
Midnight's BBEG, Izrador, is actually an evil chaos god that took control of the world (as an unintended side effect of being cast down by the other gods). All other gods are locked out of the world and the only clerics left are Izrador's. So the "Shadow" that is changing the metaphysics of the world of Midnight is directly linked to the evil god. The setting is pretty grim with most "fey" races being actively hunted by Izrador's priests and orc and humanoid armies, undead roaming the land, and everyone else subjugated under corrupt human governments and evil clergy.

That does sound pretty grim, but I'm still not seeing the necromancy connection honestly. Why not do global aspecting of Chaos vs Order or Good vs Evil if a single evil chaos god has given the other deities the boot? You could give out a big bonus to spells that violate the "natural" state of things (including but not limited to the zombies) and penalize those that restore it, for example, or give a bonus to spells cast in hatred and a penalty to those cast in love or whatever. Either way sets up a magical continuum with Healers at the short end and something that logically progresses from having an "evil chaos god" at the long end. (Edit: That's how I'd do it anyway) :)

synistar 07-16-2008 10:47 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
That does sound pretty grim, but I'm still not seeing the necromancy connection honestly. Why not do global aspecting of Chaos vs Order or Good vs Evil if a single evil chaos god has given the other deities the boot? ...

I have not gotten around to the magic system yet. The previous author created a modified version of the standard 3E GURPS magic system. I may leave it mostly as is or try a different tack (after I get Thaumatology). I'm also currently re-reading the Midnight core book so we'll see what bubbles up to the top.

sotonohito 07-17-2008 04:49 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
That does sound pretty grim, but I'm still not seeing the necromancy connection honestly.

IIRC, and its been a while since I looked through the Midnight setting books, the necromancy thing is both another aspect of the big evil god, he isn't purely chaos, and a result of the whole "gods cutting him off from heaven" thing. I think it was that because the divine "no getting into heaven" thing existed the souls of others couldn't leave, and thus undead were both easier to create deliberately and often would spontaneously form.

Each culture had its own means of dealing with the fact that Uncle Joe's corpse might just randomly rise and start attacking people. Dwarves built tombs that included extremely heavy rocks holding down all corpses, lots of others got massively into cremation, and I think I remember that the halflings, who were pretty much all enslaved by the orcs, took a weird pride in spite of slavery thing and, since the orcs ate them anyway, took special care to cook their fallen loved ones especially well.

And, finally one of the major long term secret bits was that the big evil god was slowly leeching out all magic, life, etc from the planet in order to fuel his giant breakout from his prison, and a horde of undead minions helps with the whole destroy the planet goal.

demonsbane 07-20-2008 02:53 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Glad to see this thread.

Midnight (FFG) is mostly a great setting, worth of being played with GURPS. Myself bought it along with some of its sourcebooks.

Regards

synistar 12-22-2008 09:12 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
I am just bumping/necro-ing this because I do plan to get back to work on this over the holidays. I finally got Thaumatology and will be posting some more bits soon.

rosignol 12-23-2008 11:02 AM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
Gotcha.



That does sound pretty grim, but I'm still not seeing the necromancy connection honestly.

It's a consequence of how Izzy locked the other gods out of the world- the barrier also prevents the souls of dead things from going on to the appropriate outer-planar destination. When a soul can't get to paradise, they tend to return to the body (not always, but often enough to be a problem), essentially resulting in spontaneous zombies. Except they're not mindless (at first), and they do decompose, eventually rendering them feral.

Then there's the sacrifice of sentient beings, the draining of mana to feed Izzy's power, etc. As gods go, the Midnight BBEG isn't far off being a mana vampire.

It's a pretty grim setting.

Quote:

Why not do global aspecting of Chaos vs Order or Good vs Evil if a single evil chaos god has given the other deities the boot?
Izzy isn't chaotic. On the D&D alignment scale, he's Lawful Evil. .

DoctorRomulus 12-23-2008 01:38 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
This being GURPS one could run short campaign involving some Special Ops guys from our world ending up in the world of Midnight through some kind of pan-dimensional hiccup.

Think of the possibilities!!!!

demonsbane 12-24-2008 09:47 AM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by synistar
I am just bumping/necro-ing this because I do plan to get back to work on this over the holidays. I finally got Thaumatology and will be posting some more bits soon.

Interesting. A functional conversion of the Midnight setting for GURPS 4e would be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorRomulus
This being GURPS one could run short campaign involving some Special Ops guys from our world ending up in the world of Midnight through some kind of pan-dimensional hiccup.

Think of the possibilities!!!!

Izrador's alterations in the cosmos because the Sundering make impossible to achieve any sort of "'planar' travel" (Fantasy). For the same token, "Interdimensional travel" (mostly Sci-Fi) would be equally banned too, if it was ever considered in this (dark) Fantasy setting.

This said, I always liked the Midnight setting. One of their great assets is its good measure of intrinsic coherence, what makes it suitable for some serious gaming.

Scott Free 12-24-2008 01:20 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
I have to echo everyone elses sentiments. I ran a long (looong) campaign using elements form Midnight pasted on to my own setting. Fantastic fantastic fantastic.

But yeah...if SpecOps guys ended up in Eredane (which in itself is unlikely-bordering-on-impossible), the Legates would have them for lunch. They would certainly run out of bullets before the Legates ran out orcs. Then they'd be done for.

The only real functional way would be to bend the metaphysics of the setting a bit to let them get *in*...but they wouldn't ever be able to leave.

robosnake 09-03-2010 03:33 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
I know this thread is from two years ago, but I've put a bunch of posts with my GURPS Midnight conversions on my blog. Enjoy!

GURPS Midnight conversion

demonsbane 09-11-2010 04:44 PM

Re: Gurps Midnight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robosnake (Post 1042973)
I know this thread is from two years ago, but I've put a bunch of posts with my GURPS Midnight conversions on my blog. Enjoy!

GURPS Midnight conversion

Hey, that's great work! Really. Midnight is Great setting for GURPS! I'm linking your page.


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