Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

Not too long ago, when discussing my upcoming SW game in #gurps on irc.sorcery.net, the conversation veered towards how to handle the Force. Many of the folks weren't too keen on the approach I was taking, using the system laid out in Powers and expanded in Psionic Powers, substituting a power source similar to Divine rather than Psionic for the various Powers I was working on.

Currently, I have five basic Powers: Energy Control (for Force Lightning and Energy Absorption, among other tricks), ESP (for sensing the future, past, etc), Healing, Psychokinesis (for the many TK tricks), and Telepathy (including the famous Jedi Mind Trick); each has its own Power Talent (5/level). All abilities would have a use skill to go along with them.

(One person in channel wanted me to split things like in the WEG and SWd20 systems: Sense, Alter, and Control. I found that breakdown to not fit GURPS that well; plus it'd make things really difficult for me to break things down. Better to go with a general effect-based breakdown, IMO. Plus, it'd make it hard to build Kieran Halcyon and his grandson Corran Horn, who could deflect and absorb energy but lacked even rudimentary TK ability.)

Now, as I've said, others weren't too keen on the idea. One player suggested Ritual Path Magic, which may fit. I'm not that familiar with the system, though.

One other player recommended using Realm-based Magic as the basis. This I can work with a bit better than RPM, as I've fiddled with Realms a bit. To keep things simple, I'd probably use the 3- or 4-tier Realm system rather than the 6-tier system I've used in my Marvel stuff.

So, thoughts? criticisms? suggestions? critiques? (all flames will be forwarded to /dev/null/ )

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

As big a proponent as I am of RPM, I don't think it's appropriate for Force powers. RPM is all about flexibility and preparation; the Force seems to provide quite narrow, specific, repeatable effects. I'd personally be in favor of Psionic Powers. If folks think that's too narrow you might look at Divine Favor. The character would basically take The Force as a Patron that they could call on for help in dire situations, while using their array of Alternative Powers for more reliable effects.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

I'd actually consider only three Powers. Light, Dark and Gray. That way you tie the setting's Moral divisions into the power structure. Gray Talent stacks with Light or Dark, and Light and Dark are mutually exclusive, when you convert you lose the old Power and get equal points in the new Power.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

For "light" and "dark", I'm taking a page from Impulse Buys, giving them 5 LS Points and 5 DS Points to influence die rolls. Those who use DSPs to influence the dice will need to roll at the end of the game day to prevent Dark Side Taint (using a variant of the Black Magic rules), with a penalty equal to the number of DSPs spent. (And a permanent loss of LSPs if they use such to influence the Taint resistance roll.)

And besides, under your three-Power setup, how would you do a Jedi - such as Halcyon and Horn - who is wholly incapable of TK?

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

Don't buy the TK ability? I'd still do it with Skills for Everyone. So you could even give them Incompetence or an Anti-Talent with Force Grab, Force Push, Force Choke, and so on. Which would be the way to do it if you were also using Abilities by Default (which for the Force, you probably should),

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

For what it's worth, we've been using Psionic Powers for Force effects in a Clone Wars game for quite some time, and it has worked very well with little modification. We used the same model (Powers with a use skill, powered by an Energy Pool) for other Force abilities that weren't covered by something in Psionic Powers, and setting them up is quick and easy.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

This is the BEST way in my opinion. The Force doesn't let you do things willy nilly. There are specific feats that can be done - and pretty much, that's it. I would make lots of use of Temporary Enhancements and Using Abilities at Default to represent some of the wackier abilities.


I think I can safely say I know this system pretty well. It COULD work - but not well. It's way to flexible. And the Force ain't flexible. It may be the supreme source of teh kwel powerz - but most Jedi/Sith/Force Users can only use a handful of abilities.

This is possible. It might even let you get the old WEG down quite close...but it is still way to flexible.

Stick with what you got and let the haters hate while the creators create.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

After having spent far too much time trying to make Realms fit various visions of The Force, I'm actually going with fairly standard Powers now; you can count out my vote for Realms.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

The Force as Esoteric Skills
This is my completely untested shot at doing the Force as a series of Esoteric Skills, based on GURPS Martial Arts and some other things, including Magic as Psi.

I like this approach because it runs with the idea that the Force is a sort of amped up version of Wuxia. It also allows a lot of 'basic' ideas to be learned cheaply (after all, it seems like new Force Adepts pick up the basics pretty quickly in the series,) but mastery takes a long time and there's no easy route to it.

I did some rough calculations based on Time As Experience and it seems like this comes out pretty well. Sadly, I don't have these any more. Short version is that I accounted for the long-term intensive training of the Temple versus the more sporadic training of new initiates after the Temple was destroyed. The latter require a couple months of intensive training to get the basics, which seems fitting.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

I use the Powers rules for the Force, but mostly custom builds, not the stuff from the Psionic Powers book.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

I use Divine Power with a power source similar to psionics and a completely new list of learned prayers. After I bought Psionic Powers, after reading one of the other Star Wars related threads, I've added skills for those advantages that need a roll to activate.

I use one 10 point talent for all Force skills, but also make the same 5 point talents you use available for those who want them.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

These are great - top work! This seems like a great way to model the force, especially in an all- or mostly-Jedi campaign, where balancing the force vs non-Force abilities isn't such a central concern.

I like this approach a lot!

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

Thanks!

Yeah, they're a little harsh against non-Jedi, so the non-Jedi have to be okay with playing with Jedi with these rules or they need a point-boost. In a way, it's like the old D6 game, which wasn't terribly concerned with character concept balance either.

They're more meant to replicate 'okay, what seems a faithful depiction of the movie abilities?' to a certain degree than balance.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

This is pretty darn cool. :-)

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

They seem to work for a Jedi-centric campaign, but I question a few things, particularly TK. The skill determines Basic Lift, so it's hard to say "I can only lift a stuffed eopie doll, but I can make that stuffed animal dance the Macarena while I do other stuff."

Also, my campaign is going to be a mixed group, with Force users in the minority judging by character concepts so far.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

I think this also works well for poorly trained Force Users, so long as you're restrictive about them learning more. A low level of competency isn't overpowering.

And you would roll the skill for any complicated uses of TK. I based it off the GURPS Psionics skills there.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

Follow my logic here.

I have a TK BL of 1 lb. That calls for a low TK skill level in your system. I haven't crunched numbers yet, but that's well below the average of skill 10.

I can have the doll do a complex dance (base skill roll) almost unconsciously (-8 to skill?) while splitting my concentration (-2 to skill per ability).

It's impossible to do this in your system. To get the skill up there to cover the TDMs, you'd need skill 20 at least, which gives a TK BL of 80 lbs.

If you're trying to duplicate the 3e Psionics system, remember that they used a Power Rank for intensity and skill for use, not skill for intensity and use.

Something to think about for later revisions.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

How do you get a TK BL of 1 from that?
Presume a Willpower of 13, 1 point in Telekinesis skill gives you a TK ST of 10, which is BL 20.
Ah, I see - no, your telekinetic strength is supposed to be stable at the level you purchased the skill at, it's not affected by the modifiers. I could clarify that.

Of course, an alternative would be allowing one to purchase TK separately, but I based this on the Push skill to a certain degree (which, if you'll recall, uses the higher of your basic ST or your Push skill). I never even considered that skill mods would increase or decrease your TK ST. That's an easy enough fix, I'll just clarify it to Base Skill.

However, it would be a good alternative to force players to buy a TK power instead, and then modify it with the esoteric skill, if you want to go that route in using this set.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

Ah, I think you misunderstand. I said I wanted a character with a TK BL of 1 lb who was able to soak those kinds of skill penalties. Low raw power, high skill at using the power. Basing TK BL off the skill won't permit that.

Re: Star Wars: Methods for the Force
 

I'm not sure I've even heard of a Force User who had such minuscule lifting capacity, but I see no reason to dispermit it, aye. Yes, in that case, my rules would be dramatically unsuitable.

That seems like something Corran Horn might have, since he was horrendous at TK. Perhaps I could include disadvantages... except this is already pretty favorable in terms of points for force users...