Steve Jackson Games Forums - GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

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Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1564804)

Do the Lowells still speak only to the Cabots?

I don't move that high, myself, so I don't know.

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1564753)

To be honest, I'd be tempted to totally delete Status and Rank as advantages. Instead, you just get Wealth (Limited: only for doing your job) and Reputation (whatever level you wish to buy).

"Wealth (Only for doing your job)" sounds a lot like it should maybe be Patron instead.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdicely (Post 1564838)

"Wealth (Only for doing your job)" sounds a lot like it should maybe be Patron instead.

Nah. The President doesn't own the US armed forces, but he has the ability to deploy them, so they are basically 'his' assets as long as he uses them in a manner consistent with his job.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1564865)

Nah. The President doesn't own the US armed forces, but he has the ability to deploy them, so they are basically 'his' assets as long as he uses them in a manner consistent with his job.

But I think the mechanics for Patron handle that fairly well; in fact, the support provided by Patrons is described in Social Engineering as being similar to that provided by Rank, so Patron seems the natural replacement for Rank.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdicely (Post 1564882)

Patrons have actual personalities. Also, I'd probably delete the Patron advantage too, it's just a 'provided by patron' limitation on various other advantages.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1564796)

I'd like to see Status stripped of its peculiar reaction modifiers and re-built along the lines of the new Rank. It would then simplify the complicated and fussy builds that you need to reflect having social access to the rich and powerful: multiple Contacts, Claim to Hospitality, etc., etc.

That could work well, especially for societies with multiple competing social structures (which is at least all modern societies).

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Charon (Post 1564441)

I would not call the US a 'classless meritocracy'. The modern US is somewhat less class-conscious than the USA of WWII, and certainly less so than the USA of the Gilded Age, but classless we certainly are not. We have an upper class that can be divided into 'upper upper (the 1% of the population that controls so much of the wealth), 'middle upper', and 'lower upper', the latter overlapping a bit with the vanishing upper middle class. Then we have a shrinking middle class, and a growing lower class, both of which can likewise be divided in three or more. Just because it's possible to get out of the class you were born in (though it's getting harder to do that), and people in the class above yours aren't generally allowed to screw you over without consequences nearly as badly as they used to be, doesn't men social classes don't exist.

I don't so much want to start an argument about this, but you hit a point that I felt really needed correction. I suppose you might be using a different definition of 'classless meritocracy' than I've ever seen before, though (that's not sarcasm, and I'm not trying to be rude).

To further the point Prince Charon is making, the USA also has remnants of old class systems in some areas. Individuals and families, who while not fabulously wealthy, do have socail status. You've find these people in the Northeast, the Southern Tidewater, and a few other places. They are their own in groups. some of these folks used to have power on at least a regional basis a few generations ago. The power is largely gone, as is much of the wealth and influence, but the status seems to linger, for now.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1564804)

Do the Lowells still speak only to the Cabots?

I think both families can talk to Lodges these days, and if, in a daring mood, Kennedys.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdicely (Post 1564838)

"Wealth (Only for doing your job)" sounds a lot like it should maybe be Patron instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1564865)

Nah. The President doesn't own the US armed forces, but he has the ability to deploy them, so they are basically 'his' assets as long as he uses them in a manner consistent with his job.

I'm not sure what Wealth (Only for doing job) would mean. If the character can only use these assets for stuff according to the job, this is neither Wealth nor a Patron. It's his employer's asset. E.g. you have an Equipment-Granting Patron if and only if you are free to use the equipment for your own purposes.

If you'll get impeached and/or arrested and/or fired for using the friendly local aircraft carrier other than in protection of USA's interests, for using your spysat to check up on your neighbor, for bringing a lover to the office on Sunday as a secrecy measure etc., you don't have any traits - you've got a job.

This is also why I dislike some situations of characters paying for Rank: if your Rank only applies when following the orders of the next upper character, and comes with greater and greater responsibility, one has to wonder why pay points for it at all instead of going freelance. It just doesn't provide as much benefit as it costs.

Re: GURPS: Beverly Hillbillies (or: annoyed by GURPS' handling of the nouveau riche)

Kind of a good point.
You are just doing your job. You might command 10K subordinates, but you BETTER command them to do stuff that YOUR boss wants to get done.