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-   -   Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=104821)

Langy 02-22-2013 09:56 PM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 1528950)
On a non-chicken related subject, I was home sick today and spent my conscious hours tinkering with an Excel spreadsheet for the Low Tech Armor article, although I'm not sure if it'll work in older versions or GoogleDocs.
Heh - I was thinking about doing the same, then expanding it for higher-tech armor. I also would like to replace the way the Holdout Modifier works so that it's based on armor thickness and flexibility, rather than just DR.

Quote:
It seems like it should be related to density (WM) and tensile strength or hardness (DR/in?), based on my not-a-materials-engineer vague impression? I tried fitting Max DR to a cube root and a log of DR/in and can't. Does being a flexible material factor in somewhere?
It should be based entirely on thickness, DR/in, and flexibility. Makes no sense for it to be based on anything else.

DemiBenson 02-22-2013 10:17 PM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy (Post 1528971)
Heh - I was thinking about doing the same, then expanding it for higher-tech armor. I also would like to replace the way the Holdout Modifier works so that it's based on armor thickness and flexibility, rather than just DR.

It should be based entirely on thickness, DR/in, and flexibility. Makes no sense for it to be based on anything else.
If you do, will you share? :)

zoncxs 02-22-2013 10:25 PM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 1528955)
Weight Multiple/multiplier/thingy.

I'll need to ask Steven if it's OK before I can put it up anywhere - and my preference is really stuffing it up somewhere for people who bought the Pyramid issue, since it in some ways ends up replacing the article :P

I learned how to make checkboxes go in Excel 2013 today! I should be able to back-export to Excel 2003 with relatively little problems, from what I'm seeing. GDocs is probably a no-go, I'm into features it just doesn't do. Not sure about LibreOffice/OpenOffice.
no worries, I was thinking of doing it myself too but Googledocs does not do everything I want too.

I was thinking of breaking the list down into options/stages.

1 - pick material
2 - pick design

Anthony 02-22-2013 11:39 PM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 1528950)
It brought up an interesting question though: What's the connection between physical statistics, DR/inch, Max DR, and WM for various materials?
I don't have the issue, but 1 square foot with a thickness of 1" has a weight of roughly 5 lb * Density (so 40 lb for 1" steel). Max DR is probably empirical, realistically the reason you don't use Kevlar against rifle-class threats is because it has poor scaling (realistically, given how GURPS DR works, the DR of fiber-type armors should vary with the square root of weight) and generally performs poorly against high velocity attacks, not because it has a true maximum.

Langy 02-22-2013 11:47 PM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1529018)
I don't have the issue, but 1 square foot with a thickness of 1" has a weight of roughly 5 lb * Density (so 40 lb for 1" steel). Max DR is probably empirical, realistically the reason you don't use Kevlar against rifle-class threats is because it has poor scaling (realistically, given how GURPS DR works, the DR of fiber-type armors should vary with the square root of weight) and generally performs poorly against high velocity attacks, not because it has a true maximum.
The 'Max DR's are said to be chosen because any thicker amount of armor wouldn't be reasonable to wear - it'd hinder movement too much, etc. This is half of the DR/inch for most Flexible armor (except Cloth, which has it listed at a full inch of armor), greater than an inch of DR for Wood armor, and about 1/5 of an inch for most metal armors. It's 10/75th of an inch for Lead armor and 1/6 of an inch for some metals. It's about 1/2 an inch for 'stone'-type armor.

I honestly have no idea how a lot of these things were decided.

Anthony 02-23-2013 12:18 AM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy (Post 1529022)
The 'Max DR's are said to be chosen because any thicker amount of armor wouldn't be reasonable to wear - it'd hinder movement too much, etc.
Sounds like made-up numbers, then.

jacobmuller 02-23-2013 02:04 AM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1529037)
Sounds like made-up numbers, then.
It's peculiar how many things in GURPS seem like invented numbers; the authors have even admitted some numbers are just holdovers from earlier game versions with no solid basis.
What I've experienced, however, is many hours of patient/ insane number crunching and reality comparing usually end up giving you numbers sufficiently akin to those "made up numbers" such that a more complex way of doing things is, well, have you seen this bottle opener?

I'm only surprised I hadn't started putting the numbers into a spreadsheet yet myself. And for UT armor too.
Bruno & Langy: insanity is infectious - I've to go stand in the snow for 9 hours but, when I return, my Excel 2007 will be played with, bwah, ha ha! {may be watching too much ST-ToS}. Great minds think alike but fools seldom differ.

ULFGARD 02-23-2013 02:11 AM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Okay... Loved this issue. I'm psyched to play around with manors from Matt's article in my fantasy game. And I think some concealed armor might be in order for some gnomish bad guys inspired by an earlier Pyramid...

Meanwhile... It may be the alcohol I've consumed, but I love you all ;)

Just keep this pipeline flowing....

Mr Frost 02-23-2013 02:54 AM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1528676)
...I'm a bit troubled by the way poultry farming blows comparable cash crops out of the water. No setup, tiny land requirement, highest revenue, no drawbacks listed.
Well , It's a very fowl industry ...

Rasputin 02-23-2013 05:29 AM
Re: Pyramid #3/52: Low-Tech II
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frost (Post 1529061)
Well , It's a very fowl industry ...
Groans.

So, TBC, were we meant to think of a Harn supplement when reading your article? Because it seemed like GURPS Harnmanor to me.


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