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Making mages colorful

On rpg.net, there was a thread about magic that had an interesting colorful mage that I'd like to model in gurps (both this mage specifically and mages in general).

Generally, this type of mage seems more characterized by her relationship to magical entities and places than just what spells she can cast. I think that this type if mage is more easily modeled by spells as powers than spells as skills; though I am open to suggestions on how to encourage this in the regular spell model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailywolf

And I want magic to be interestingly fiddly. I speak the language of demons and elementals, and one day, my name will be a conjuring word, if I live to see my reputation extend into the Otherplaces. I carry a ha'staff, only a bit longer than a walking stick, but thick and cut during the final days of my apprenticeship from a lightning-struck black oak. When I can afford it, I will pay a smith to draw silver wire and bind it. When I aided the Ladies of the Pines, they granted me a small boon - a charm of bird skulls and amber, which I have affixed to its tip. The half staff grows with me, and allows me to focus my power in new ways. I have not told my companions, but when I was near death in the Deeps, I invoked a name given to me by my teacher - held in reserve all these years. I called upon the demon prince patron who he served, and pledged my allegiance in exchange for another chance at life, and new more terrible powers. As i get older, that pact weighs heavier on me. One day, I will confess to my friend the cleric, and beg his help breaking the pact. But for now, I need the power with the Northlings set to invade. From a shaman of the steppes, I learned the secrets of bone magic and blood magic and the magic hidden under the skins of monsters. I carry a set of knives now, and from slain beasts carve charms which lend me a measure of power. In Du'kir I smoked the dream leaf, and walked in the Otherplaces. I carry a carefully horded measure of the stuff with me now, and it is more precious than platinum (and certainly costs more). When demons or soul-seducers sing, the dream leaf garbles their charms. An essential tool in the mage's kit, for dealing with monsters able to enchant and bend the will. My small horde of spells, I guard as my most prized possession. Each was won at cost. Each has its own price, it's on dangers, but each is a potential victory when deployed with care and cunning, and the aid of my friends. I know ordinary folk fear me, even as my reputation in the Otherplaces increases. I can hire no servants, I can lead no armies, and no people would accept me as their king. Mine is a lonely path, I suppose. Perhaps that is why so many of my fellows go mad. The loneliness eats into you. But for now, I have my friends, and my familiar Beechum, and I plans for my tower one day, and the creatures I will conjure or spawn from my vats. One day, I suppose I might make new friends. But not yet. Now while the Northlings threaten.

This looks like:
Some sort of reputation in "otherplaces"
A named halfstaff
a boon that is an added enchantment
a perk (can make a pact with a demon prince)- used to get a patron/duty package
a skill to make charms from moster parts (something like rpm's charms)
Dream leaf- an alchemical amulet giving a will bonus

Re: Making mages colorful

This seems like an awful lot of work. I don't mean to sound discouraging - this is EXACTLY what I want magic to be.

GURPS Thaumatology and GURPS Thaumatology: Magical Styles can help, but really this is about a player and a GM agreeing to make fluff, and then deteminring how much it costs in points.

I would do the ability to pact with a demon as a favor if it's a one-time deal, or just the fluff of what "magery" is - you can chat with demons/spirits and get knowledge. If the demon regularly comes by and helps you, it is a highly accessable patron.

Blood and Bone Magic is alchemy, or material magic from Thaumatology.

Dreamleaf would be a magical material, and would have cost in the world , but probably be a "Regular" item. Or it could be a variant Herb Lore pastille that wards or exorcises spirit beings.

the staff could be a named possession from Perks.

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by isf (Post 1528275)

Generally, this type of mage seems more characterized by her relationship to magical entities and places than just what spells she can cast. I think that this type if mage is more easily modeled by spells as powers than spells as skills; though I am open to suggestions on how to encourage this in the regular spell model.

GURPS Thaumatology has something about that. A writeup of some kind of shaman or other spirit worker. I recall that it's not in one of those crappy waste-of-paper chapters that's trying and failing to twist the GURPS Magic spell system into something interesting.

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1528347)

As it happens IHMBWM.(Work is slow)

Do you mean Assisting Spirits p90, or "Shamanism as Powers" p 207?

Maybe Mortals with Supernatural Servants (p209)? That sounds right to me.

Also Check out Words of Power on p178. Sounds like a trick these sorts would learn.

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1528347)

Ha, because those parts are my favorite sections.

Re: Making mages colorful

Magic systems like this depend on a creative GM defining places and beings and substances and magic systems. And without a worked example or three, this is even harder.

See also Sanderson's First Law of Magics (An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.) In game terms, RPG magic systems work best when they have well-defined effects.

Re: Making mages colorful

I'd definitely agree that the quoted style, while awesome, needs a strong setting to ground itself in, so you're not going to get much luck putting together generic rules for it. This makes total sense; what's being described here is a magic where the really cool tricks aren't something that can be pulled directly from the one's character sheet, but are the fruits of having relationships with spirits and the innate abilities to use artifacts scattered around the gameworld. In other words, it's world-based more than character based. Which obviously requires the GM to have a lot of NPC spirits and artifacts on hand to use. With that said, we can look at a few principles.

You need more than one magic system. Yes, that means walking between total confusion and munchkinism. That's not a bad thing, if the GM is good. On one hand, ignorance can let IC confusion and fear slip over to the player ("How is he doing that?" "I do not know, his magics are strange to me"), which is fine as long as the player knows what he's doing with his character points. On the other hand, digging for every possible advantage sounds a lot like the archetypal wizard.

There needs to be both low cost and high cost magic. This is something that the first point enables. On the one hand, you want players to have to sacrifice to obtain real power. On the other hand, you want small, subtle magic to give them that mysterious flavor. So give them a constant trickle of power with little cost, and then make them pay heavily for the rest.

You need to make them feel the cost of their magic. The standard GURPS way to do that is to charge character points, either piecemeal for a permanent ability (like with create), or a lump some for a one time use of something (like a supernatural favor). That's a sound plan, but there's an even older tradition of giving out limited use quest rewards, often in place of cash. Don't let most of it be available on the open market, price notwithstanding, that simply ruins the feeling. The Dreamleaf, the boon of the lady of the pines, and the charms cut from monsters skins are all examples.

Add texture. This should be obvious, but it's important. A wizard's staff is boring, a lightning-struck half-staff is cool. Small details and flourishes go a long way to make things memorable. This has some nice tips. Providing that is largely the GM's job, but when the players are eager to provide their own texture, great things happen.

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fwibos (Post 1528372)

Do you mean Assisting Spirits p90, or "Shamanism as Powers" p 207?

Maybe Mortals with Supernatural Servants (p209)? That sounds right to me.

The one with the actual character in it. He has something like 4 indidivual servant spirits, some as Allies, one as Patron, one that the writer thinks best represented by a Contact Group.

Re: Making mages colorful

Color is separate from mechanics. You can always add color to the mechanics. That's what players and GMs are supposed to do, and it's a large part of the fun (for me, anyway).

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraxes (Post 1528458)

Color is separate from mechanics. You can always add color to the mechanics. That's what players and GMs are supposed to do, and it's a large part of the fun (for me, anyway).

Right...the fiddly system details are like the sidelines and end zones of a football field...they define the field...but the players and the refs make the game (whether an epic classic or a yawner of a blowout).

Played for years with pretty much the base magic systems with orders (ie styles) for the last 20 yrs. Seen mages played poorly from a tactical viewpoint, mages with the dramatic range of a broken daisy air rifle, and with the mystery of a Law + Order episode (ie zip).

The color and drama mostly comes from the player within the scope the GM allows. If you have figured out who the role (PC) you the player have written for yourself then you can have fun with it.

Tactics are well and good but there is more to a good game than body count!

Benevelont Fortune Upon You.
Sann Arkis ben Zai Journeyman Adept of the Blue Star

Re: Making mages colorful

I'd borrow a page from Exalted. Allow 'color' to influence die roll provided it's interesting. So using a normal staff gives no bonus, but one that was sculpted from the femur of a demon, and topped with an ice shard from the Eternal Glacier... may give a +1. You'll need to flesh it out a little.

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraxes (Post 1528458)

Color is separate from mechanics. You can always add color to the mechanics. That's what players and GMs are supposed to do, and it's a large part of the fun (for me, anyway).

You can also pretend that there's colour in spite of it being absent from the game mechanics. If you are so inclined.

Re: Making mages colorful

The other thing is that the example in the OP does not spell out what their imaginary mage can do. So of course it is colourful, since it is almost all colour and no effects!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1528480)

You can also pretend that there's colour in spite of it being absent from the game mechanics. If you are so inclined.

I think you know that this is inevitable. For an obvious example, no playable game developed by half a dozen amateurs with a reasonably consistent level of abstraction can have more than four or five types of hilt (eg. GURPS' none/basic/partial basket/basket model). So it is up to whoever brings it into play to decide whether their Thrusting Broadsword with a Partial Basket Hilt looks like this or more like this. Or in your economic model, someone can invent flavour for their food X raw materials Y processed goods Z estate.

Re: Making mages colorful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1528480)

You can also pretend that there's colour in spite of it being absent from the game mechanics. If you are so inclined.

Not just easier in game, but very realistic. We all do many things for purely aesthetic reasons.
There could be an odd reaction from other wizards if yours doesn't present an appropriately majestic visage.

Re: Making mages colorful

This article is specifically for D and D, but I think it offers some great advice as well

Re: Making mages colorful

Fun article, Fwibos.

To the OP - you know, I've always been a fan of letting mages buy advantages to represent small magical abilities regardless of whether there's already another magic system in use. You don't have to go the full magic-as-powers route just to add a little flair. Snapping your fingers to create a spark capable of lighting your pipe (as in the article) could easily be a Perk.

And as others have noted, the reason that description seems so colorful is because it really is almost all color with almost no mechanics. Like, take the demon pact that grants him power; what power is that? For all we know, it could be as simple as extra levels of Magery or FP for spellcasting with a Pact limitation, which you would just buy at character creation anyway. And the secret name he invoked to contact the demon? Background fluff, nothing more.

Re: Making mages colorful

I might start by making a list, just in ordinary English, of what the mage can do and what their limitations are.

Then I would see if I could find powers to match the abilities, and would eyeball a Power discount for all the limitations.

I also find that it works well to allow PCs bonuses to their magic for going to flavorful trouble to set up the spell. You don't have to lay out every possible bonus if your players trust you to just make a call and keep the game going.

Re: Making mages colorful

GURPS Cabal with its ingredients lists and such might be an inspiration.

Gumshoe (the CSI rpg more or less) has something like this. Its pool based and appropriate use of say gun pron ala Tom Clancy can refresh points in the pool once per session (to keep it in check) . You can do this with fluff, say allowing a pool of points ala GURPS Impulse Buys
and giving a refresh point once per session for cool fluff

alternately you might try giving a bonus for cool fluff as a bad solution.

Start with low magic and use Cabal rules. Throw a bonus for cool gear, role-playing the awesome invocation (make this the only way you can get a time bonus) and another point or two for neat-o and there you go.