Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Hello. New to the game. Me, my friend, and my two kids played last Saturday. It was fun, but we got bogged down a lot. I've done a lot of reading since then, but a couple of things still escape my grasp, and not finding a decent YouTube video about the game has been rough as none of us has played before.

I've read the entire FAQ which was VERY helpful. But I still have a couple of questions, so here goes....

1. Do you have to put an item into play? Can you just keep it in your hand until you need it if you have less than 5 cards? What if I have 2 big items in my hand (of my 5 cards) and one big item, the giant rock say, in play as a human? Is this okay?

2. One shot items like potions and other things without a value on the bottom. Can these be put in play in order to bring my total cards down to 5 in my hand? I'd like to keep some things a secret to use from my hand, but if it's a choice between that or discarding to the low player (charity), I'd rather have it out in front of me. There was a wall card I had too. Is that played out in front of me, or do I need to keep it in my hand until I need to use it?

3. Kneepads of Allure. Is this an item that you play in front of you and considered armor? Footwear? One shot? And, I think, I have to have it in play in front of me before I start/enter combat. Or can I be losing a combat, put it in play, then make someone help me for the win? Then it stays in play?

I'm re-reading everything from the top, and I know I'll have more Q's when we play again.

Thanks for the help!

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Just because you have an item in your hand doesn't mean that you must play it. You can keep it in your hand as long as at the end of your turn you don't exceed the hand size limit. Cards in your hand are not items, so it doesn't matter if you've got 2 "big" items in your hand. You can only have one of them in play though.

Many one-shot cards are items (they have a gold piece value on them). Those can be played on the table to get them out of you hand, most people turn them sideways like other unused items to remind you that you're not getting their bonuses. There are other cards (such as curses and GUAL cards) which can not be played to the table as items, but may only be used. This includes cards like "wandering monster" as well.

The kneepads are an unslotted item, like the spiky knees (you can have both), you must be wearing them before combat to use them, since you can't play normal wearable items while you're in combat. The kneepads stay in play, yes.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

To further clarify, Items are any card that has a Gold Piece value or the text "No Value" written on the card at the bottom right. Any and all Items can be carried on the table unless there are restrictions on how many of those Items you can carry in the rules, such as the restriction that you can normally only carry one Big Item. In order to start carrying an Item, it must be your turn and you cannot be in combat. You also choose whether you are currently using each of your carried Items by keeping them upright to say you are using them or turning them sideways to say you are not using them.

You are under no obligation to play your cards. One-shot Items can be played either from your hand or from the table, so it is best to keep them in your hand so your opponents don't know about them. You should really only play cards you don't intend to use to the table if you want to perform a trade with someone or you need to avoid Charity.

On that point, Charity only comes into effect at the end of your own turn. You can have any number of cards in your hand at any other time, but in order to end your turn, you must get your hand down to your hand limit (typically 5). That is the only time when you need to follow the Charity rules.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Thanks for the great, QUICK answers!

Clipper, I'm trying to print your flow charts. They'll be a HUGE help, especially if/when my kids introduce other kids to the game.

I just re-read the Rules and took pretty good notes this time, and not surprisingly, I have couple of extra questions.

As mentioned above, are the Spiky Knees considered Armor? When we played this came up, the player got his Armor cursed, but the only thing he was wearing was the Spiky Knees. We assumed they were, just like a sword or a mace is a weapon even if it doesn't specifically say weapon. LMK.

Give and Trade. I'm quite confused on this. You can GIVE items from anywhere, table, hand, equipped, unequipped, at any time to any player? Even one in combat? Or am I reading that wrong and you can ONLY GIVE items that are on the table? Not from your hand.

But you can't trade items with a player in combat. And if you trade with another player, the items have to come from the table? Or can they come from the hand? And it can happen on anyone's turn? Even during someone else's combat, then one of the tradees could theoretically join the combat as a helper?

I'll re-read the FAQ on those points...

Lastly, the Rules say, "You cannot discard ITEMS "just because"." So if I have more than 5 cards in my hand and it's the Charity phase, can I discard an item? Of course, I could put the item in play to get down to 5, but not if it's "big" and I already have a "big" in play. Also, the item may be something good my opponents would steal and I'd rather get it into the discard pile. Is this allowed? Can I discard ITEMS from my hand during Charity, or do I have to put them into play and only discard monsters and such?

Thanks very much! Off to the FAQ again.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

It's not. All Armor cards have Armor on the bottom left side, just as Headgear and Footgear. Spiky Knees and other cards with no specification simply just won't take any slot.

You can only trade Itens that you carry (i.e. are played on the table). You can't trade during combat. If you are not in combat you can trade with another player not in combat.
The exception for this is after a combat with a helper: you can give a helper any cards previously agreed upon.
Giving Itens is the same as trading, only you get nothing in return.

If you have more than 5 cards you don't discard, you give to the lowest LEvel player. If you have non-Big Itens you could play them to carry and avoid giving cards away. If you are the lowest Level (or tied) you may discard.
Note that you don't have to discard Itens, you could give/discard Monster, extra Classes or Races.
You could sell the Itens if you want, from your hand or from play, if it is 1000GP or more.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Some edits for clarity:

"One of them" refers to Big items here, just so it's clear.

"Most people" may be an exaggeration. The rules are intentionally vague on whether one-shots that have not yet been used should be turned sideways or not, because it doesn't matter.

However, one thing I have noticed is people who set up an overlapping set of cards where most of them cannot be read. This is shady, at best; any card you have in play is PUBLIC knowledge, and an opponent should be able to look at your layout and see what cards you have. If you're stacking them so the card names can't be read, you need to quit doing that.

I can see other reasons to play cards down, including "I have a Wishing Ring, so send that Curse somewhere else" and "I have a +5 one-shot and I'm not afraid to use it!" "It is best" implies a value judgment that I don't think is warranted here.

You may give a helper any cards out of the Treasure draw from the combat, as per the agreement reached when the helper joined the fight. But you cannot give away any OTHER cards that you couldn't normally trade, such as Classes or Curses. (And you cannot give non-Item Treasures out of the combat draw to anyone other than the helper.)

Everything Igor says here is about Charity, just so it's crystal clear. (BTW, it's "Items," not "Itens.")

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

I'm more used to the refined latin-based Portuguese language, not this barbaric thing called English. =P

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Thanks very much again!

I think I have a handle on most of my questions now. I'm sure I'll have more when I play again, most likely this weekend.

So finally, just to be sure I have it and let me know where I err here, items may only be given or traded that are in play, i.e. on the table. Is that correct? So I can show my hand, but I can't trade/give out of my hand.

If we can only give/trade items, what is a really good definition of "items" in the game context? Not curses, races, classes, monsters. Is it everything else or am I forgetting a few things that can't be traded?

Thanks very much!

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Correct.

All Items have a value in Gold Pieces or the text "No Value" in the bottom right. All other cards are not Items (unless a card tells you to treat it as an Item).

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

An Item is something with a Gold Value, even if it says "No Value" (which is the same as 0).

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Excellent gents!

Lastly, is it totally frowned upon to play a two-player game of Munchkin? The box says 3 to 6(?), and I'm sure the dynamic is way more fun with 3+ as more cards are in play so more bad things can happen, but is it plausible to play with only 2?

Said better, is there some "sanctioned house rules" floating around for a 2-player game of Munchkin? Like drawing 12 cards initially and discarding to 7 or somesuch?

I do appreciate all the help. My son has to go to the orthodontist tomorrow, so as long as he's out of school for a while anyway, sneaking in a "quick" game of Munchkin wouldn't be the worst way to spend some time after a morning appointment. :)

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

There are no official rules for a 2-player game, but there are a few unoficial suggestions on the Member House Rule thread on the Munchkin forums.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

I end up playing 2 player a couple of times per week, as opposed to multi player only once per week. the key difference i've found is that it gets pretty one sided pretty quickly in 2 player, especially if using the Munchkinomicon booster. There's not really a good way to combat this that i've found, just you kinda learn to work around it on both sides

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

The obvious solution is not to use Munchkinomicon when you play two-player.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Even without using it, still gets unbalanced with only 2 people playing. Mostly you just have to hope for lucky draws. Or use the Fairy Dust booster to help even things out a little.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

The rules also specify you can start carrying an Item as soon as you get it, even if it's not your turn:

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Yes, and it should perhaps also be mentioned that you still mustn't be in combat nor Running Away at the time you receive the card if you want to play it immediately like that.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Took on my kids and destroyed them. A question came up about the cleric.

On any face up draw, the cleric can choose to take that card from the top of the discard pile as a special ability. This then includes KOTD also, right?

I think that's how I was reading the ability. My son saw it otherwise. So I figured I'd ask.

The "plurals" that are on the card are for instances like treasure, etc. where you'd have to draw two or more faceup cards, like treasure after being helped. The cleric could draw one from the discard, then one from the top.

I think I have that right.

I'm figuring it out. The game went much smoother today.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

I'm going to hit all the salient points of the Cleric's resurrection ability:

The Cleric can only take as many cards as he was going to draw face up. Kicking open the door is a face-up draw, so the Cleric may take the top card from the Door discards and then must discard one card from his hand. The card from the discards however, replaces what he would have gotten from the deck, so if it's a Monster, he must fight it, if it's a Curse, it hits him, and so on.

A Cleric who won combat with a helper may draw up to the number of cards he was supposed to get from the Treasure as long as he has enough hand cards to make up for it. However, he must decide, when he does this, how many cards he's going to take from the top of the Treasure discards. He can't pick one card from the deck, then choose to take one from the discards, then take one from the deck, and decide to take another from the discards. It's a once and done deal.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

MM, thanks for the reply.

In your sentence, "may take one from the Door deck" is that meaning Door deck discard pile? Otherwise I'm confused.

But the card he draws from the Door Deck Discard Pile, goes into play immediately as what he would have gotten from KOTD. I think I got it.

In your last paragraph, the Cleric must decide before doing face-up draws how many he will take from the discard and how many from the top, not the ability to go back and forth. I think I understand.

Thanks so much!

One last question, off this topic, but on topic to the original thread...

Your class can be discarded at any time? So when a monster card is drawn on KOTD and that monster gets +4 vs. Warriors, the player can just discard his Warrior or does he have to wait until after battle? We played it that you can discard your class at any time, and if you have one in your hand, you can play that at anytime also. LMK if this is close to correct.

Thanks very much!

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

He did mean the discard pile, yes. Sounds like you understood everything else correctly, too.

They can be discarded at any time, on any player's turn, so that is a viable strategy to remove the bonus the monster gets. Playing Race and Class cards is slightly different. You can play it at any time on your turn, or immediately when you receive one. So yes, you can play a new Race or Class card during your own combat, but you probably won't be able to if you are Helping someone else, as it's not your turn.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Thanks Clipper.

So Race and Class, PLAY at any time on your OWN turn, but can be discarded at any time on any turn.

Last thing, can your race card and super-munch be discarded for powering up class abilities? I'm assuming so. Or is it only items that power, say, Berserker?

More clear, if I want to add some Berserker points to my Warrior, can I discard my Race and Half-Breed card for a +2?

That's a little better. Thanks much. :)

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Yep. But don't forget you can also play them when you get them (on any turn).

Yes, those cards count as in-play and qualify to be discarded for Class abilities that tell you to discard cards. Yes, you can discard them both at the same time for a +2.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Just remember that you can not discard a Class or Race in order to power one of its abilities. I.e., you can't discard your Warrior to get the berserking bonus.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

I just want to make sure since the wording in the rules can be taken both ways.

Does the phrase "other than in combat" refer to both conditions or only the condition that it follows?

In short, if I use Wand of Dowsing during combat to get a Gentleman's Club can it use it immediately or not?

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

You may not start to use new (non-one-shot) Items during combat unless a rule explicitly circumvents that prohibition.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

More games, more questions...

The level 1 thief has nothing to lose besides discards on repeated theft attempts correct? I think I read that in a post. Lmk

Order of play question. I am a level 1 thief. I KOTD and get a curse, lose your highest bonus item. An opponent has a wishing ring in their items. If I discard cards, can I repeatedly try to steal the ring to vanquish the lose item curse? Or is it a card-timing thing where the next card down would have to vanquish the curse? Some curses like chicken on the head, that stays with you, I can see being able to repeatedly try stealing. But an instant? Again lmk.

Another item, magic missile. Combat and a player casts magic missile to help himself defeat a monster. Another player casts transfer and transfers the monster to another player. What happens to the magic missile? The player had cast it on himself for +5, but now he's not in the combat. What if he gets asked to be a helper? It was quite confusing.

Lastly, if I want to trade an item, it has to be in play and carried right? I can't trade it from my hand? This came up because a player already had a big item carried and wanting to keep and wanted to trade the big item he had in his hand with another player. I told him because he couldn't legally put it into play, he couldn't trade it.

I'm sure I'll have more questions after our next few games.

Thank you!

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

From the FAQ:
In Munchkin you always resolve each action before doing another. So, if you are hit with a Curse you have to deal with it before doing anything else, including stealing. There are exceptions to this, of course, but they are clear in the card. Wishing Ring, for example, lets you cancel a Curse that was previously played, before it takes effect. But it there is no expecification, just assume you have to resolve one card after going to the other.

It is easier if you think about sides of combat, instead of playing the cards to one self. You have the players (or Munchkins) side and the Monster side. Magic Missile is played on the players side. But the Transferal Potion resets the player side, changing the combat to another player. Any one-shot previously played has no effect and is just discarded, even if the player enters combat as a helper.

From the rules:
and after that:
This two parts make it clear that cards are not Items until they hit the table and can only be traded after they are carried. If you can't carry more than 1 Big Item, you can't trade it.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Like the rule from page 5 of the rulesheet where it reads:

?

I believe the intention of this rule is: if you are a helper and gets Treasure out of turn, you can get it. But, re-reading it now, it is very misleading. The rules clearly state you can play any Item if you just got the card (which would qualify for Wand of Dowsing).

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not questioning Andrew's ruling, I'm just questioning the way this is presented. It's not clear, from the way it is written in the rules, that an Item can't be played if you just got it and it's the middle of the combat.

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Actually, there is a way you can handle trading of a Big Item in your hand to another player, but it takes two trades to complete instead of just one. First, you just give your current Big Item to the other player. Then you play the one you actually wanted to give them in front of you. Then you trade the two Big Items with each other. It's a little complicated, but it gets the job done legally!

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

This thread has gotten too fractured by the addition of new questions, and I'm concerned that it's just going to get worse, making it hard for other new players to search and find the answers to their questions. Please, Augster, start new threads for new questions, and try to group questions if they are related, if you can.

Since it seems that every question has been answered, so I'm going to close this thread to help prevent too much more side discussion and tangentiality.

Thanks!

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

Perhaps this quote from the rules, on p. 2, should be your guide. Andrew's ruling is not out of whim. The rules clearly state what you can't do during combat with respect to Items in your hand, so regardless of what p. 5 says, the following quote is not overridden by it:

Re: Slightly confused NOOB questions
 

The rule is you cannot play a non-one-shot Item during combat unless the card or some other rule SPECIFICALLY overrides that restriction. Page 5 is not specific. (It also doesn't say you can't play multiple Big items, but that shouldn't mean the Big item rule doesn't apply, either.)