Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

So I'm starting up a new game with a new group, and having discussed what we would like to do, we've decided to try going with Psionics and Alchemy as the main "extraordinary shticks" of the setting. I'm somewhat new with both, and have a few questions.

1. I own Powers and Psionic Powers already - are the rest of the Psionics books worth a look?

2. Interaction between the two systems. While generally quite distinct in terms of focus and effect, I still have a few worries. It is mainly about point cost-y side of things. Alchemists can build up a respectable repetoire relatively cheaply, while Powers (inc. Psionic powers) are generally somewhat costly. Should I then use Alternative Abilities, as described in Powers? Because then it seems to me that Powers get REALLY cheap...

3. Just continuing from above. I've decided to use the Skills for Everyone for Psionics, due to setting lore reasons. However, if I use Alternative Abilities, do all abilities coming from a given "core" ability use one skill?

4. Are there rules anywhere for the price and time to create acids and gunpowder? One of my players is interested in playing an alchemist specializing in throwing stuff, and especially acid and small bombs. If no rules exist for their cost and creation time, any ideas? (Also, I'm considering raising their market prices so things won't go out of control)

5. Kind of continued from number 2. I'm fiddling with idea of making some Psionics-related elixirs for the setting, as it would link the two together in a meaningful way. Any ideas on what such elixirs might do without being too unbalanced?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

The other Psionics books:

Psi Tech: Technology related to psionics, from Kirlian photography to psi amplifying helmets.
Psionic Campaigns: Guidelines on how psionics interact with a campaign (like which abilities derail what kinds of plots, and how the frequency of psionics affects the feel).
Psis: Templates for common psi archetypes with lenses for individual power suites.

Re: gunpowder. Low Tech and High Tech both have costs for gunpowder, and Low Tech Companion 3 has guidelines for production of anything (natually, somewhat focused more on low tech craftsmanship).

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

I've have gotten Psionic Powers and Psionic Campaigns, along wit LT Companion 3 - all good purchases, especially Psionic Powers!

However, regarding the acid and gunpowder thing - I can find the market price for finished gunpowder, yea, but I can't seem to find out what it would cost and how much time it would take to make it in a laboratory. The LT Companion 3 does not say a lot about chemistry, and chemical ingredients do not seem to be covered in the raw goods table. Am I overlooking something?

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Perhaps only that wholesale cost (including materials and labor) should average about 1/2 retail price with materals obviously being only a part of wholesale cost.

Call it 1/2 or 1/10th or anything you want. These sorts of things are likely to be hghly variable especialy at the low TL implied by home made black powder hand grenades.

I'd actually adivise the PC to just buy his stuff instead of making it himself. Making black powder is a lot like a full time job and frequently both dull and dangerous.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

First of all, what's TL of your campaign? What is alchemy serve and capable for?
You know, it's assumed supernatural so it's TL^ anyway and can vary from simple healing potions and oil flasks to homunculus, philosophers' stone and alkahest. Or all of the above.

"Standard" GURPS Alchemy is described in Magic, so it's assumed magic connected art. There are also several paragraphes about Alchemy in Thaumathology. But anyway, it's your universe so Alchemy may be anything.

You might as well be interested in DF 4 - Sages, particulary Artificier template.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

With gunpowder, the charcoal is trivial to get, sulfur is mostly about location, and saltpeter is the lion's share of the cost and chemistry. From what little I know of course.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

That sounds rather reasonable. I discussed it with the player earlier today and I think were gonna run with him buying finished blackpowder. Then, of course, he might still tinker with it...

I have Magic, as well as the Pyramid magazine with some more alchemical goodies, so I'm pretty covered there. The campaign TL is 4-ish, augmented by alchemy and psionics in some areas. I'm still figuring out what "exotic" substances alchemy can produce, and I'm playing with the thought of implementing some of the stuff from Psi-Tech. Alchemical stones augmented psi powers, psionic-disrupting fabrics, that kind of stuff.

I don't own DF 4, but is the Artificer template mostly a clockwork-ish gadgeteer-type thingie?

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

What I'm about to say isn't helpful at all, but: I'd love to hear more about this campaign. You've given us such an intriguing set of hints, but I still can't quite imagine it... and I'd like to, because it sounds like heaps of fun!

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Mostly, yes. But if you swing by PK's mygurps website, you'll find he has a lens that converts it to a dedicated alchemist.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Sure! I'd love to know what other people think of it. Basic campaign sketch:

• Psionics and alchemy exists as the setting choice of "exotic" powers.
• TL is about 4-ish, with alchemical and psionic enhancements in some areas, as mentioned before. I haven't really gotten into the details yet, however. Gunpowder weapons exist, but are not ubiquitous.
• General aesthetics and "feel" draws much inspiration from the Byzantine Empire and medieval Middle-East.
• Gameplay will be somewhat "gritty" and stuff like injuries, food etc will be handled rather realistically.
• General history: Some time ago, the Astral Plane (which exists as an "overlay" to the Material Plane, eg. "real world", and is accessibile through psionics, was invaded by Cthulhuish abominations and attacked the very minds and sanities of mortals in a way most people could not comprehend. Psion-scholars of the Gheedran Empire realized the true nature of the situation and the Empire quickly began expanding in order to gather enough psions to counter the threat. Nations who did not willingly join the Empire's project and bowed to its authority were militarily subjugated. The Empire's psions defeated the eldritch menace by erecting phychic barriers to keep them imprisoned. The mortals won The Astral War, as this was called. Some time has passed now, however, and the world is awakening from the celebration of victory. The Gheedran Empire rules supreme, but people are beginning to question their rule, and espeically their draconic enforcement of their laws (especillay those regarding psions). The Empire claims that the barriers on the Astral Plane require maintainance by experienced psi-users, but this is questioned. The Empire might also be facing a destructive war with another nation, and meanwhile, dissidence brews across the provinces.
• Ripping off Thieves' World (probably because I read the first three short story collections recently), the focus will be a trade town under Imperial rule. Imagine a cross between Gotham City and Mos Eisley. But in a fantasy world. With psions and stuff. The people there are feeling more and more self-conscious and are beginning to seriously question the Empire's role in the city. In response, a new governor has been dispatched, and realizing he must use rather... shadowy means to effectively govern the city ("a wretched hive of scum and villainy!"), he has been allowed to assemble a force he can dispatch for special missions. Enter the PCs.

Rather brief, safe the history part. I always tend to write more lore than "rules crunch". Forgive me.

That sounds interesting. Might look into that, though I don't imagine alchemists being too spontaneous.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Happily continuing the thread drift: this sounds great. If I'm getting it right, it's basically a medieval middle-east/byzantine fantasy world threatened by Lovecraftian horrors from the Astral plane. Nice!

I guess the next thing I want to know is: where does the psi come in, thematically? Often Psi seems to come in as a result of Lovecraftian horrors arriving, disturbing the universe, etc etc - but from your description it sounds as if in this game world Psi powers were already an accepted part of society before the coming of the Lovecraftian stuff: is that right?

If so, how do you envision psionics fitting into the normal operations of medieval society? Just wondering.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Yup, that's the gist of it! Just add Renaissance level technology in the making, and it's getting there!

Correct, psionics existed before the arrival of the Lovecraftian horrors. The basic outline is this: Psionic powers begin to manifest around puberty, and anyone showing such talent can be "claimed" by the government and sent to a psion-academy, or by one of the organizations licensed to recruit and train psions. These organizations vary in nature, some being classic academies, some being tied to religion, others paramilitary, etc. Psions usually then follow the traditions of their given organizations, most of which doesn't concern themselves very much with day-to-day affairs of ordinary people - though some do. Psions are therefore judged very much upon what tradition they belong to, and by different people for different reasons. Some have a reputation for being stuck-up scholars, other for being benevolent healers, etc.

I hope that made sense. :)

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

So psionics is essentially magic? Why not simply give it that name to avoid a genre clash? To me, it seems as if that's what it would look like, though a fancy word like Supernal or Spectral Sciences might work even better.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

In some ways, yeah - and in retrospect, I probably might have done so. But my players and I all like the concept of psi. Plus, I wanted to check out the various GURPS supplements for it. So it's really just cause me and my group like psionics. :)

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

As someone who has spent way too long building various magic-as-powers-systems, I can totally sympathize with wanting to look at the rules for psionics, and if the group doesn't mind it, by all means, go for it. I, as a player, would be a little baffled with psionic academies in a renaissance setting, but, other than the name, it is an awesome idea, that actually reminds me a little of the setting of my current campaign. Would you like my intro vignette by PM?

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Sure, that would be great!

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Governments at this TL don't tend to have centralised administration. Could you live with:

"anyone showing such talent is normally claimed by one of the organisations with the right to recruit and train psions. These tend to be either religious orders, or sponsored by local rulers, whose organisations may be military, or academies in a classical form."

And at this point, you can use GURPS Locations: Worminghall as a outline for such an organisation, though it will need a bit of work.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

I had actually wondered about the same thing, and wondered if I had overdone the draconian policies of the Empire a bit. I think your approach sounds more plausible. I imagine still, however, that the government keeps a strict eye on unusual psion activity. And punishment for being involved in disciplines considered unethical, invasion of privacy using telepath, etc. would still be quite severe.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

Governments at that TL don't usually have the communication possibilities that Telepaths offer. I would be very careful in thinking that real world Renaissance governments would look similar to a government where you could literally communicate at the speed of thought no matter where you were.

Re: Psionics and Alchemy: Any help appreciated!
 

See the Camber of Culdi books by Katherine Kurtz, where the "magic" in setting is pretty much psi. (Not very true of the earlier Kelson books -- and I never made it through all of the later run.)