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-   -   "Inflicting" Serendipity (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=152579)

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:03 PM

"Inflicting" Serendipity
 
So a character I want to make is a Fae, from the Unseelie Court. To be specific, a Cait Sith (Caught Shee).

The most specific thing I am struggling with is that the Cait Sith are known to 'Bless people who leave out saucers of milk for them on Samhain'. Let's leave out the milk and the holiday, and focus on the blessing.

Cait Sith tend to focus on 'success and health', so I am thinking Healing, for one, which could easily be a couple of Racial Healing spells, or something similar.

However, for 'success' - that seems like it could be an Affliction that 'inflicted' someone with Serendipity, perhaps with a Limitation of something like 'Financial or Career only'. But Serendipity is ALWAYS working, and I was thinking something more along the lines of the Bless spell - provides minor benefits until it gives you a pretty big success, then goes away. I don't want the character to be godlike powerful, in that her 'blessing' will follow people through their entire lives. Any ideas how I can modify Serendipity to end at a certain point? Or make it somehow temporary? I couldn't find an answer in the Affliction rules, either. I have RAW, Magic, Powers and Supers.

The reason I don't want to use the Bless spell, maybe as racially learned as well, is because it's too mechanical. I don't want it to be 'bonus to die rolls'. I'd like it to be general circumstances and good fortune, like Serendipity provides for.

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 03:04 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Affliction is already temporary.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:10 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Can you show me where it says that? It says '

"...Advantages with instantaneous effects
affect the target once, as soon as he is
hit, if he fails his HT roll; e.g., Warp
immediately teleports the subject.
Advantages that can be switched on
and off (such as Insubstantiality) are
automatically “on” for one minute per
point by which the victim fails his HT
roll, and are not under the subject’s
control..."

Serendipity has neither an instantaneous nor switchable effect.

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 03:12 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
By default neither is Insubstantiality. Afflicting Serendipity gives you as many uses of the advantage as you inflict levels of for margin of success (as a benediction) minutes.

Kelly Pedersen 11-01-2017 03:16 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132403)
Any ideas how I can modify Serendipity to end at a certain point? Or make it somehow temporary? I couldn't find an answer in the Affliction rules, either. I have RAW, Magic, Powers and Supers.

Well, for starters, remember that Afflictions, unless you modify them with Increased Duration: Permanent, are already time-limited by default.

But if you're trying to build a Bless spell, effectively, you're really looking for something that will terminate once the "big" effect goes off, and not before. I think that what you need is actually two effects being Afflicted - one for the generic bonus, and the other the big "save your life" effect, that then ends the overall effect.

Since the duration on Bless is actually "indefinite until the effect saves your life" effectively, I would build this with Increased Duration: Permanent, the +150% version. This version always requires a terminating condition, which I would just say would be the save-your-life effect going off. This is a classic example of Luck. I would use base Luck (since it's only going to be used once, higher levels don't matter), with the Emergencies Only and Unconscious Only limitations (normally, Unconscious Only can only be taken with Uncontrollable, but I think in this case it's appropriate on its own, to represent the fact that it goes off even if you don't think you need it).

I'd probably use the same Unconscious Only limitation, without Uncontrollable, on the Serendipity advantage as well. You could call it "Under GM Control" if that makes you feel better about violating the guidelines under Unconscious Only. It effectively means that the GM will decide when someone with Serendipity gets the bonus, and the player can't request a lucky break at all.

Refplace 11-01-2017 03:17 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132407)

Serendipity has neither an instantaneous nor switchable effect.

Serendipity is actually a limited use ability so I would treat it as it stays till used rather than buying up the duration. Travelers Blessing from GURPS Powers:Divine Favor p. 10 is an example of this.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:17 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Insubstantiality is, by default, Switchable.

p. 34 of RAW: "...An advantage that...has to
be on at all times to be of benefit... is always on.
You cannot turn it off."

I cannot imagine that Serendipity wouldn't be in this category.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:19 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen (Post 2132409)
Well, for starters, remember that Afflictions, unless you modify them with Increased Duration: Permanent, are already time-limited by default.

But if you're trying to build a Bless spell, effectively, you're really looking for something that will terminate once the "big" effect goes off, and not before. I think that what you need is actually two effects being Afflicted - one for the generic bonus, and the other the big "save your life" effect, that then ends the overall effect.

Since the duration on Bless is actually "indefinite until the effect saves your life" effectively, I would build this with Increased Duration: Permanent, the +150% version. This version always requires a terminating condition, which I would just say would be the save-your-life effect going off. This is a classic example of Luck. I would use base Luck (since it's only going to be used once, higher levels don't matter), with the Emergencies Only and Unconscious Only limitations (normally, Unconscious Only can only be taken with Uncontrollable, but I think in this case it's appropriate on its own, to represent the fact that it goes off even if you don't think you need it).

I'd probably use the same Unconscious Only limitation, without Uncontrollable, on the Serendipity advantage as well. You could call it "Under GM Control" if that makes you feel better about violating the guidelines under Unconscious Only. It effectively means that the GM will decide when someone with Serendipity gets the bonus, and the player can't request a lucky break at all.

I'm not seeing where Afflication is temporary. Can you point that out to me? I've read the RAW text several times now, and maybe I'm missing it. I would be perfectly okay for an Affliction to, for example, affect someone with Serendipity for say, a week or so. That seems VERY fae-bargain-like. "Yes, I offered you success. I didn't say HOW MUCH."

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:22 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
And I recall seeing somewhere about a 'terminating condition' - for example, the Shapeshift terminating after a kiss, but I don't remember where. What book was that in?

Refplace 11-01-2017 03:22 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132413)
I'm not seeing where Afflication is temporary. Can you point that out to me? I've read the RAW text several times now, and maybe I'm missing it. I would be perfectly okay for an Affliction to, for example, affect someone with Serendipity for say, a week or so. That seems VERY fae-bargain-like. "Yes, I offered you success. I didn't say HOW MUCH."

Under Advantage, B36 it lasts one minute per margin of Success. That can be bought up with Increased Duration which is what Kelly is recommending. However you have a RAW example with Travelers Blessing that would be cheaper and better model what you asked for. So I would go with that.

Edit: Terminating conditions apply with Increased Duration so its in a few places.

Anthony 11-01-2017 03:26 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132413)
I'm not seeing where Afflication is temporary. Can you point that out to me?

It's a bit odd how duration is worded, but I assume the intent is that always on advantages also last for 1 minute per degree of failure.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:27 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
It says:

"Advantages that can be switched on
and off (such as Insubstantiality) are
automatically “on” for one minute per
point by which the victim fails his HT
roll, and are not under the subject’s
control."

Serendipity isn't a 'switchable' type of advantage.

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 03:29 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132418)
It says:

"Advantages that can be switched on
and off (such as Insubstantiality) are
automatically “on” for one minute per
point by which the victim fails his HT
roll, and are not under the subject’s
control."

Serendipity isn't a 'switchable' type of advantage.

Does it really make sense that you could afflict permanent advantages for cheaper than just buying them?

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:30 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 2132419)
Does it really make sense that you could afflict permanent advantages for cheaper than just buying them?

Do you need to be so flaining condescending? No, it doesn't make sense. That's why I came to the community for help.

Anthony 11-01-2017 03:34 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132420)
Do you need to be so flaining condescending? No, it doesn't make sense. That's why I came to the community for help.

Assume that the text for switchable also applies to permanent effects.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:35 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2132423)
Assume that the text for switchable also applies to permanent effects.

Heh, I think most of us know better than to assume anything about this system.

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 03:36 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132420)
Do you need to be so flaining condescending? No, it doesn't make sense. That's why I came to the community for help.

I wasn't trying to be condensending. I was just asking a question in the hopes of helping you. I am sorry for coming across that way.

It lasts either for minutes per margin of success (as a benediction) or gives a use per level for that session. The advantage of the former is you can afflict it again in the same session. This is how it works. If you don't believe us then maybe you should PM Kromm.

Kelly Pedersen 11-01-2017 03:45 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132418)
It says:

"Advantages that can be switched on
and off (such as Insubstantiality) are
automatically “on” for one minute per
point by which the victim fails his HT
roll, and are not under the subject’s
control."

The full quote is "Advantages with instantaneous effects affect the target once, as soon as he is hit, if he fails his HT roll; ... Advantages that can be switched on and off... are automatically “on” for one minute per point by which the victim fails his HT roll..."

Serendipity isn't a switchable ability, it's one that has an "instantaneous" effect - you get one burst of good luck, then it's done. This is the default. It has been clarified that you can use Affliction to give people advantages under their control, but in that case, they have to pay all costs associated with the ability, and are limited by it normally. In this case, you're effectively giving someone the ability to use Serendipity constantly, rather than a one-off use of it, but that means it's subject to the usual limitations of Serendipity - they can only benefit from it once per session per level. That's why my build suggested limiting it so it was under the GM's control - normally, the player with Serendipity can request a lucky break when they need it, whereas this version is much more chancy.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:45 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Oh, I believe you. It just wasn't in the text, and I just wanted to get the Word of God (or at least the Word of Community) on it before I merrily went on my way and gave another player a permanent advantage for free.

So a different question, then. Let's say the subject knows it's coming, and knows what it is, and *chooses* not to make a resistance roll, because they WANT to be 'inflicted' with Serendipity. How long does it last then?

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 03:47 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
That uses the rules for beneficial afflictions.

Kelly Pedersen 11-01-2017 03:50 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132427)
Let's say the subject knows it's coming, and knows what it is, and *chooses* not to make a resistance roll, because they WANT to be 'inflicted' with Serendipity. How long does it last then?

This is covered under "Beneficial Afflictions", Powers p. 40. Basically, if the GM decides that an Affliction is purely good, and no one would ever want to resist it, they can declare it requires a successful HT roll to get it, with duration equal to margin of success. If the Affliction is modified by Malediction (which it sounds like this really should be), then with a beneficial Affliction the target can choose to waive their resistance roll, in which case the duration is strictly based on the user's margin of success.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:53 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Basically what I want is this:

Person X is nice to my Fae character somehow. She 'blesses' him with 'financial success'. For the next week or so, he occasionally (maybe twice a day, tops) finds a couple dollars jammed in a bus seat, or maybe a $20 blowing down the sidewalk toward him. Then, let's say a week later, he wins some larger benefit - he hits the lottery for a couple thousand dollars, or maybe (and I really like this idea, because it fits the Fae screwed-if-you-do sort of contract mentality) he finds a wallet with a couple grand in it. Then, X no longer benefits from the blessing at all.

Can you all suggest an easy-ish path to this? With or without serendipity being in the mix.

Note: The subject (person X) shouldn't have ANY say in how the 'blessing' affects them.

Refplace 11-01-2017 03:58 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132431)
Can you all suggest an easy-ish path to this? With or without serendipity being in the mix.

See my answer back on page 1 of this thread. That does the larger part of what you asked for. Adding Gizmos could cover the little bits.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 03:59 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Refplace (Post 2132433)
See my answer back on page 1 of this thread. That does the larger part of what you asked for. Adding Gizmos could cover the little bits.

I read Traveller's Blessing, and I don't like it. The person who has been blessed should have no say in how, when or where it works.

Refplace 11-01-2017 04:07 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132434)
I read Traveller's Blessing, and I don't like it. The person who has been blessed should have no say in how, when or where it works.

Fair enough. However that is still as I see it a perfect model for what you want powerwise. You just need to change the fluff and conditions. That is geared for Traveling, yours does not have the Wishing enhancement or the Aspected limitation.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 04:09 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
That's true, but Traveller's Blessing involves Divine Favor and all that - I don't want any of that. The person being blessed doesn't have to BELIEVE in it, or owe the 'blesser' any worship - it just works. We're talking about fae/faerie, not gods.

Kelly Pedersen 11-01-2017 04:12 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132436)
That's true, but Traveller's Blessing involves Divine Favor and all that - I don't want any of that. The person being blessed doesn't have to BELIEVE in it, or owe the 'blesser' any worship - it just works. We're talking about fae/faerie, not gods.

To change those elements of Traveler's Blessing, simply remove the Divine modifier.

Refplace 11-01-2017 04:17 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132436)
That's true, but Traveller's Blessing involves Divine Favor and all that - I don't want any of that. The person being blessed doesn't have to BELIEVE in it, or owe the 'blesser' any worship - it just works. We're talking about fae/faerie, not gods.

Your taking this far too literally. I offered an example of a build that does the heart of what I thought your asking for which is a blessing that lasts till its used.
Here is a proposed build.
This blessing lasts until an important coincidence happens and it grants up to 3 events of finding minor items on your person or lying around.
Statistics: Affliction "Cats Blessing" (PM, Fae, -10%) [36]

"Cats Blessing" (Serendipity 1 + Gizmo 3) [30]

JanMikal 11-01-2017 04:18 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Traveller's Blessing requires Divine Favor 7 and is invoked by prayer.

I gotta say, with this Traveller's Blessing thing, it's like I asked for a Ferrari, and you gave me a Tesla, and now you're saying "No problem. If you take off the chassis, and take the engine out, and replace the interior, you can add all the Ferrari stuff".

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 04:31 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132441)
I gotta say, with this Traveller's Blessing thing, it's like I asked for a Ferrari, and you gave me a Tesla, and now you're saying "No problem. If you take off the chassis, and take the engine out, and replace the interior, you can add all the Ferrari stuff".

If you are asking for a solution that is nothing like the example, you will have to use some other system besides abilities to make it, like spells or rituals. Any ability based solution is going to have some of the same abilities and modifiers as Travelers Blessing.

JanMikal 11-01-2017 04:34 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
I am perfectly open to spells, or rituals, or whatnot - I've been saying all along that I liked the 'small-until-big-and-done' that hte Bless spell offers.

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 04:36 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132444)
I am perfectly open to spells, or rituals, or whatnot - I've been saying all along that I liked the 'small-until-big-and-done' that hte Bless spell offers.

What is the magic system like?

JanMikal 11-01-2017 04:39 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Buh? Oh, you mean in my campaign. It's more or less GURPS-standard magic. I had thought to give the character a Racially-Innate Bless spell, but it's a little too...mechanical. I don't want '+x to all your dice rolls until the miracle happens'. You know? I want 'Little things will happen to benefit you until the miracle happens'. I wish there were a Serendipity spell that acts rather like the Bless spell. I honestly wouldn't know how to build it.

Kelly Pedersen 11-01-2017 05:42 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JanMikal (Post 2132441)
Traveller's Blessing requires Divine Favor 7 and is invoked by prayer.

That's only the framework of Divine Favour. It's the stuff in the "Statistics" section that's relevant. You could buy that as an advantage on its own (for the listed 26 points), and have a permanent ability to avoid travel hazards, without divine favour. More importantly for your question, it serves as a good model for what advantage you'd be putting on someone else with Affliction. Simply take off the limitations that make it work in ways you don't like (so, Divine, for starters), and you'll have something close to what you want.

sir_pudding 11-01-2017 08:22 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Healing is difficult to weaponize.

At any rate Afflictions are temporary by default, and this interpretation that Afflictions of per session abilities must give you permanent use isn't correct.

RyanW 11-01-2017 08:36 PM

Re: "Inflicting" Serendipity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellboy (Post 2132514)
Also isn't there an added cost for Self Affliction? Forget where I saw that.

No. You can use Affliction on yourself, but you still have to roll. If you have Malediction, you roll for it like a spell but can waive resistance. If you lack Malediction, you don't have to roll to "hit" yourself, but you can't waive resistance (or the alternate roll in Beneficial Afflictions rule)


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