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-   -   Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=177280)

Bill_in_IN 01-17-2022 12:47 PM

Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
My first question is very general. The results of the discussion will guide subsequent questions.

with the exception of UC I, UC II through UC V separately calls out Punch, Kick, Throw, and Evade options. Are these options all simultaneously active per having these talents? More specifically, do the Evade bonuses apply automatically or does the holder of the talent have to actively evade and do nothing else that turn?

In my past play in ancient times, these options within the talents were interpreted as being active at all times as long as it met with the proper encounter sequence. It made up the difference for not being able to be heavily armored or dealing out larger amounts of damage. Is this correct in the new ITL?

hcobb 01-17-2022 12:58 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
I've taken "Evade" and "Bonus to defend" as passive advantages that are active at all times, including with a full MA move. Note that these only apply to front hexes so offer no benefit to fallen or HTH figures.


Note that both of these "options" include a "If you take the Defend option" at higher levels for additional benefits above the base bonus.

Bill_in_IN 01-17-2022 01:05 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2411855)
I've taken "Evade" and "Bonus to defend" as passive advantages that are active at all times, including with a full MA move. Note that these only apply to front hexes so offer no benefit to fallen or HTH figures.


Note that both of these "options" include a "If you take the Defend option" at higher levels for additional benefits above the base bonus.

So, the prior application from my ancient times still applies. I thought that I had interpreted it properly.

Next Question.

The UC Talents state that these abilities are active if one is not wearing more armor than cloth and hands are empty. It would seem that a cestus or knife would be an exception to that. Is that true?

hcobb 01-17-2022 01:15 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN (Post 2411857)
The UC Talents state that these abilities are active if one is not wearing more armor than cloth and hands are empty. It would seem that a cestus or knife would be an exception to that. Is that true?

Can't do that for fear of wicked witches stacking defensive buffs, now that mages can buy as many talents as their XP will afford.

phiwum 01-17-2022 01:52 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN (Post 2411857)
So, the prior application from my ancient times still applies. I thought that I had interpreted it properly.

Next Question.

The UC Talents state that these abilities are active if one is not wearing more armor than cloth and hands are empty. It would seem that a cestus or knife would be an exception to that. Is that true?

I'd say a knife is not an exception. I'd also say that the rules don't allow a cestus either, but of course a GM could rule however he likes.

Bill_in_IN 01-17-2022 03:00 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2411860)
Can't do that for fear of wicked witches stacking defensive buffs, now that mages can buy as many talents as their XP will afford.

A cestus is an offensive enhancement. I know martial artists that practice selat (spelling) which is knife related. I could see bulky weapons not being allowed.

I need to go back and study ITL some more. UC can be complicated.

hcobb 01-17-2022 03:22 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
If you want a Cestus master then learn the Cestus Mastery talent.

Bill_in_IN 01-17-2022 05:28 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Good discussion. Thanks. Gives me some info to chew on as I dig back into ITL.

I Realize that cestus is it's own skill with its own mastery. It just seems like it could easily be coupled with the higher UC talents.

I shall study it further.

larsdangly 01-18-2022 01:18 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Some principles I think you can follow to interpret these clearly:

- The listed 'evade' penalties to hit and damage apply against hand weapon attacks (though I would include unarmed melee attacks, but not missiles) nearly all the time, irrespective of your movement or action on a given turn, provided you meet stated constraints on facing (I think it reasonable that you have to be aware an attack is coming your way, but otherwise they are automatic).
- the 'evade' bonus to Defend only applies on turns you take the Defend action.
- you may punch OR kick OR throw; each is a form of attack and you may only perform one attack action per turn (recognizing that in some special cases, such as the UCV punch, you get two separate blows as part of that attack action). e.g., you may not kick and throw, or punch and throw, or punch and kick on the same turn.
- according to RAW you may not wear any armor or carry any weapon while using UC talents. Period. However, house rules are your own business. I permit someone who knows an UC talent and is a weapon expert or master to use an UC talent action while carrying the weapon in which they are an expert, and to pick the higher of the two defensive advantages (e.g., if you have spear mastery and UC II, hand weapon attacks against you are at -2 to hit, as per Mastery, and you have 1 extra point of armor, as per UC II. But other people will have other sorts of house rules on this point.

phiwum 01-18-2022 03:47 PM

Re: Unarmed Combat Talents -- Questions about their application
 
Mixing weapons expertise and UC talents is interesting, Lars. I never thought about that, but then it would take rather a lot of XP to get both.


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