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-   -   Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=173479)

Plane 05-30-2021 09:47 PM

Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
This is in reference to MA118's "Grab and Smash" section under "Twofers" where "Kiss the Wall" (normally an unpenalized roll against DX or your combat to hit) is altered to use the worst of the hit location penalties (what you grappled, or what you're hitting)

One of the realism problems with this is going by MA you could have some ST 5 guy grappling some ST 15 guy and throwing him around without a problem into some foe. Yeah it'd be low-thrust, but you could cause situations not relying on your striking ST for damage, like smacking their face into a fire elemental and taking 2d burning, for example.

I'm wondering if anyone has ideas on how we might use the Control Point system to make this a bit harder to do.

TG does deal with SOME of "grab and smash" but I think it only pays attention to the first part ("grapple and strike") where you can get damage bonuses when you're striking something you've grappled.

Twofers/"Kissing" isn't something I can find dealt with in TG, unless I'm overlooking it.

Twofers:KTW on MA118 does mention "If either foe defends, nobody is hurt" which I think is a followup to "Your opponent may either dodge or parry with a free hand, subject to Defense While Grappling" which allows defenses against the basic "kiss the wall" attack.

The problem there is it still gives you utter freedom to toss someone who can't defend (ie did an All-Out Attack) regardless of their mass.

TG20 under "Strength as a Proxy for mass" doesn't list Kiss the Wall but it seems like it would be a good candidate for inclusion against something which always gets a mass-based defense, since it includes similar things like Judo Throws or Shoving People Around.

More importantly, going by TG8's Mass-Based Moves, couldn't we also apply a penalty to the DX roll to Kiss the Wall based on the weight of the person you're trying to get to kiss the wall?

VIVIT 05-31-2021 12:13 PM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
From the title I thought this thread would be about pinning an enemy and giving him a kiss.

Plane 05-31-2021 12:29 PM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVIT (Post 2382115)
From the title I thought this thread would be about pinning an enemy and giving him a kiss.

closest I can think of for that is targeting the jaw at -6 with a bite

DouglasCole 05-31-2021 01:12 PM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
“Kissing can be as mechanically intricate as battle.”

“Then you are doing one of them incorrectly. “

-Heimdallr the GURPS GM

Joseph Paul 06-01-2021 09:40 PM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
Couldn't we look at what you describe as a natural use of the principles of aikido? Big Bad Guy makes an AOA and Little Guy grabs an arm and redirects him into one of his own minions. Lesson learned - BBGs should not leave themselves without a Defense.

Under MA what happens in the second after the BBG is abused? Does he stand a good chance of executing options that will free him of this pint sized terror?

Plane 06-02-2021 01:02 AM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul (Post 2382356)
Couldn't we look at what you describe as a natural use of the principles of aikido? Big Bad Guy makes an AOA and Little Guy grabs an arm and redirects him into one of his own minions. Lesson learned - BBGs should not leave themselves without a Defense.

Under MA what happens in the second after the BBG is abused? Does he stand a good chance of executing options that will free him of this pint sized terror?

Aikido has it's limits, the judo flip after all suffers from Cole's DX penalties for Mass-Based Moves which is why I figured maybe it'd make sense for this conceptually too.

Black Leviathan 06-03-2021 12:49 PM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVIT (Post 2382115)
From the title I thought this thread would be about pinning an enemy and giving him a kiss.

Different kind of Smash.

Plane 06-03-2021 05:55 PM

Re: Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling
 
this thing about parrying judo throws gets me thinking again about changing the hard cap that exists on mass of hands/bodies you can parry and adapting the mass-based moves penalty to create a soft cap through either progressively penalizing the active defense roll, or something something like subtracting thrust from damage a move does like a power parry.


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