Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (http://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (http://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Meteoric iron immunities (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=169054)

naloth 06-15-2020 09:56 AM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon (Post 2328696)
Meteoric iron isn't antimagic, it's just unaffected by magic. Note this also means a meteoric iron weapon will pass right through a magic force field, but if you're using magic to simply strengthen the armor you're already wearing (or your clothes, or your bare flesh), the strengthening effect is just as effective against the meteoric iron weapon as a weapon of terrestrial iron - the spell isn't affecting the weapon, it's affecting what the weapon is striking.

That's a questionable line. Is the strengthening effect due to a magical coating or magical infusion that dissipates on contact? A barrier could just as easily be defined as some sort of naturally strengthened effect (air stiffening). How would it work on elements that are being moved or shaped magically?

Varyon 06-15-2020 10:25 AM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by naloth (Post 2328701)
That's a questionable line. Is the strengthening effect due to a magical coating or magical infusion that dissipates on contact? A barrier could just as easily be defined as some sort of naturally strengthened effect (air stiffening). How would it work on elements that are being moved or shaped magically?

That's a question for the GM. If the GM sees an armor-strengthening spell as something that just adds a small force-field of sorts to the armor, meteoric iron will ignore the additional DR; if the GM sees that spell as something that simply bolsters the armor (by making it more resistant to deformation/penetration and having enhanced energy dissipation, say), the additional DR will work just fine against meteoric iron. A fireball made entirely of magic would probably dissipate harmlessly if striking a meteoric iron breastplate; a fireball made of superheated gas and contained and directed by magic would work just fine against it, heating and possibly penetrating it as readily as one controlled by psionics or superscience. I think the default for the GURPS magic system is that both of the above cases are actually the latter (isn't there a ruling somewhere that a fireball can be thrown through a NMZ without issue?), in which case the meteoric iron has no interaction with the magical effects, but a GM can certainly change that.

Fred Brackin 06-15-2020 11:00 AM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti (Post 2328675)
If I was the GM.

If I was the GM I probably wouldn't have given them enough meteoric iron to screw around with like this.

WingedKagouti 06-15-2020 11:46 AM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 2328688)
It would be rather unusual for someone to be wearing a breastplate that their legs are unable to support the weight of.

There's a difference between being lifted by your legs and walking around using your legs. The body of most bipedal organisms is designed to work better one way than the other.

Kromm 06-15-2020 12:01 PM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade (Post 2328614)

Would meteoric iron pass through an Utter Dome?

Yes. Magical defenses never affect it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade (Post 2328614)

Could it be Plane Shifted?

No. Magic spells can't be cast on it directly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade (Post 2328614)

Could you Blink with meteoric iron on your person?

Yes. You don't become immune to magic just because you're carrying a meteoric iron token of negligible weight.



With meteoric iron, always ask two questions:

1. Is a spell being cast directly on the meteoric iron object?

2. Is the meteoric iron object (e.g., a meteoric sword or arrow) encountering magic intended as a defense against that kind of object in general (in those cases, swords or arrows)?

If the answer to either is "yes" (Y/Y, Y/N, or N/Y), then the magic doesn't work. If the answer to both is "no" (N/N), then the magic does work.

So you can walk through magical gates, Blink, teleport or be teleported, etc. while carrying meteoric iron gear. No problem. That's because such things are intended as transport, not as defenses, and they affect the carrier, not each item of gear individually. On the other hand, meteoric iron shackles are intended as a defense against someone leaving, so someone bound by them couldn't just teleport away from them, even if they could teleport with the same shackles in their backpack.

I will go on record as saying that this is very much one of those "power of plot" things, as magic is wont to be. Don't try to apply scientific thinking or you'll end up wearing it on your face like a smoothie from an uncovered blender. Just ask the questions and accept the answers.

Evil Roy Slade 06-15-2020 03:12 PM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Thanks, Kromm.

The question came about because the PCs in a more-or-less Dungeon Fantasy game recently plundered a remote ruin and the vault was secured with a door that I did not want the party's mage to just walk through (I wanted to give the thief type some spotlight time), so I noted it was made out of meteoric iron. After I did so, I realized that the door was probably worth more than the treasures behind it.

This was okay, as I don't mind the occasional treasure that is too awkward to easily carry out, but then I began pondering the backstory -- how did it get here in the first place?

Kromm 06-15-2020 03:24 PM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade (Post 2328729)

This was okay, as I don't mind the occasional treasure that is too awkward to easily carry out

I love treasures like that!

One time, I decorated a temple with big gilded bronzes. The PCs took one look at the chunky "gold" statues and forgot to search for the "real treasure" (!). They spent vast effort lugging these things back to their lair, only to learn they had mostly bronze and a little gold. But they dutifully removed and sold the gold, and found buyers for the bronze. Fun times!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade (Post 2328729)

I began pondering the backstory -- how did it get here in the first place?

Someone who can work iron into a durable door of good temper and reasonable resistance to the elements strong, corrosion-resistant alloy steel at TL Olden Times . . . without using a shred of magic. That should provoke some pondering. It would demand unusually advanced metallurgy and more than a little muscle. As a player, my thoughts would turn to fire giants with the sort of tech normally reserved for quasi-steampunk gnomes and dwarves in fantasy. Those would make for interesting foes: big, strong, smart, high-tech, and bristling with magic-immune gadgetry.

Varyon 06-15-2020 03:42 PM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2328730)
Someone who can work iron into a durable door of good temper and reasonable resistance to the elements strong, corrosion-resistant alloy steel at TL Olden Times . . . without using a shred of magic.

You're missing the obvious one - you make the door out of mundane iron with all the magic your twisted heart desires. You then put it in a highly-protective shell and teleport it outside the atmosphere, far enough for the shell to become incandescent during re-entry. It falls back down, and you use some more magic to slow down the shell safely. By definition, the door is now iron from a meteor - that is, meteoric iron - and is impossible to affect with magic. Given, that's a lot of setup just to have a mage-proof door, but might not be as expensive as crafting a giant iron door at TL 3-ish without magic (and sourcing enough meteoric iron for the endeavor).

But, yeah, ISTR a story of an exasperated GM from That Other Game who made Adamantium doors or something similar, and was rather upset when the party of delvers opted to remove those from the hinges and cart them away, making a far greater profit than was intended (the doors being worth markedly more than all the rest of the treasure in the dungeon combined).

Evil Roy Slade 06-15-2020 04:04 PM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon (Post 2328733)
It falls back down, and you use some more magic to slow down the shell safely. By definition, the door is now iron from a meteor - that is, meteoric iron - and is impossible to affect with magic.

Er... I think see an issue here.

johndallman 06-15-2020 04:28 PM

Re: Meteoric iron immunities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon (Post 2328733)
But, yeah, ISTR a story of an exasperated GM from That Other Game who made Adamantium doors or something similar, and was rather upset when the party of delvers opted to remove those from the hinges and cart them away ...

Guilty, m'lud. The scenario had been boring us for hours. When we reached the dungeon and saw the mithril door, we just removed it and left, without bothering with any further exploration.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.