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-   -   Clothing in Spaaaaaaace! (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=91235)

vierasmarius 05-02-2012 09:15 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 1365015)
I've tried to steer clear of artificial gravity in my SF settings, even the ones that aren't particularly hard science. Basically, I feel artificial gravity is a cop out, and since I don't have to worry about special effects budgets in my RPGs, I can get as spacey as I want.

For large-scale habitats, Spin Gravity is probably a given, even if it doesn't provide a full 1G. Living in zero G would be most common for traders, nomads, explorers and miners, who'd likely be choosing clothes for utilitarian reasons anyways.

Sindri 05-02-2012 09:16 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 1365015)
I've tried to steer clear of artificial gravity in my SF settings, even the ones that aren't particularly hard science. Basically, I feel artificial gravity is a cop out, and since I don't have to worry about special effects budgets in my RPGs, I can get as spacey as I want.

Even if I had the ability to conjure gravity at a whim I wouldn't use it for artificial gravity. I can't see it being anything but extremely expensive and it comes at the price of interesting ship designs or zero g both of which are cool.

Flyndaran 05-02-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 1365015)
I've tried to steer clear of artificial gravity in my SF settings, even the ones that aren't particularly hard science. Basically, I feel artificial gravity is a cop out, and since I don't have to worry about special effects budgets in my RPGs, I can get as spacey as I want.

It's superscience other than spin gravity. But humans simply fare poorly in zero G even for short terms.
Having a border line superscience genetic or drug reason to handle zero g is just as hand wavy.

vierasmarius 05-02-2012 09:32 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1365028)
It's superscience other than spin gravity. But humans simply fare poorly in zero G even for short terms.
Having a border line superscience genetic or drug reason to handle zero g is just as hand wavy.

I disagree slightly with this. There are numerous health effects from long-term zero gravity living, some of which could be addressed by drugs or body modifications. For example, loss of bone mass can be mitigated by frequent exercise and special diets, and recovery can be aided by drugs and various therapies. In short, it's plausible to prevent, or at least minimize, the long-term health risks of living in zero gravity; it's comparitively implausible to efficiently create and direct gravitational waves.

Flyndaran 05-02-2012 09:38 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Problem draining lymphatic fluid, sinus clogging, lack of taste/smell, kidney stress, bone and muscle loss, upset intestinal flora/fauna increasing infection risks.... etc.
These are the problems known from the absolute fittest people. What would go wrong with the merely fit let alone average or sickly is anybody's guess.
The problems of zero g are enormous and numerous. You would realistically need a huge pharmacy to cope with it for the medium term. The long term would be life shortening and not pleasant.

dcarson 05-02-2012 10:29 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
One thing that's never had good research done on is how much G do you need to get rid of the 0G problems. Will a tenth do?

I can see people that live/work in 0G routinely wear something like the tabi socks that give a mitten like separation between the big toe and the rest. This allows you to grab a bar or edge to give another point of anchorage. They can have a thin flexible sole so you can walk on slightly tough surfaces without problems.

Sindri 05-02-2012 10:45 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1365037)
Problem draining lymphatic fluid, sinus clogging, lack of taste/smell, kidney stress, bone and muscle loss, upset intestinal flora/fauna increasing infection risks.... etc.
These are the problems known from the absolute fittest people. What would go wrong with the merely fit let alone average or sickly is anybody's guess.
The problems of freefall are enormous and numerous. You would realistically need a huge pharmacy to cope with it for the medium term. The long term would be life shortening and not pleasant.

What would go wrong with less than the absolute fittest people... would probably be exactly the same thing. Why would fitness change anything for most freefall problems? Most of the issues is strictly a matter of the design of the human body. Being more or less fit won't change anything except in some cases how much damage you can take.

I agree that drugs would have a hard time solving freefall problem, but that's just because it's the wrong tool for the job compared to genetic engineering which is hardly superscience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcarson (Post 1365055)
One thing that's never had good research done on is how much G do you need to get rid of the 0G problems. Will a tenth do?

I can see people that live/work in 0G routinely wear something like the tabi socks that give a mitten like separation between the big toe and the rest. This allows you to grab a bar or edge to give another point of anchorage. They can have a thin flexible sole so you can walk on slightly tough surfaces without problems.

The tabi thing is a good idea. I wonder if boots could be modified more to improve maneuvering and amchoring or if that's the best that can be done.

We still don't know a lot about health problems in space. Since there are a number of different issues there are probably a number of points at which things improve.

Flyndaran 05-02-2012 10:48 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindri (Post 1365059)
What would go wrong with less than the absolute fittest people... would probably be exactly the same thing. Why would fitness change anything for most freefall problems? Most of the issues is strictly a matter of the design of the human body. Being more or less fit won't change anything.

I agree that drugs would have a hard time solving freefall problem, but that's just because it's the wrong tool for the job compared to genetic engineering which is hardly superscience.
...

Genetic engineering has yet to adapt a complex animal to live in a completely unnatural environment. The more we study genetics the more complex and interconnected it gets. I just don't see such major and fine tuning being anywhere near as "simple" as modern science fiction assumes.

The hassles of the average are not the same as the super fit heavily tested. There's a reason why even after long term tests of drugs weird rare problems pop up.

Sindri 05-02-2012 10:56 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1365060)
Genetic engineering has yet to adapt a complex animal to live in a completely unnatural environment. The more we study genetics the more complex and interconnected it gets. I just don't see such major and fine tuning being anywhere near as "simple" as modern science fiction assumes.

The hassles of the average are not the same as the super fit heavily tested. There's a reason why even after long term tests of drugs weird rare problems pop up.

Sure, it's not trivial. It's harder and it takes longer then SF might portray but that's all. There isn't anything insurmountable about any of the problems.

Why are the hassles of the average not the same as the super fit though? Aside from stuff like muscle and bone loss where being fit might help slow down the damage and allow someone to take more of it I don't see any reason for things to work exactly the same for a given level of fitness.

Someone might perform better against a health issue then someone else but it would be inborn or a result of their activities during their time in space not their general fitness.

roguebfl 05-02-2012 11:02 PM

Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1364854)
Most of those won't be physically fit enough to be astronauts until technology has advanced enough to make space flight routine so you don't have to worry.

Sorry but even amoung perfect fit adults there are people who never adapted to the adult level of body hair and prefer to wear long clothing to conseal it.

There are other than not like the feel of either moving air or conditioned air on the bare arms and legs so wear longs even when it is at the right temp from them.

The are other that see short sleeves and legs as a mark of juviline status and as adult don't wish to return to that style of dress.


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