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-   -   Why the Bard Talent? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=171952)

Shostak 01-22-2021 09:38 AM

Why the Bard Talent?
 
If one looks at the talent entry for Thief, it says that it is not a talent at all, but a profession. So why isn't Bard the same? After all, just like how the abilities that let one function as a thief are described by other talents, the same could be said of bards. Though a typical bard is unlikely to have all of these, a number of talents come to mind as relevant:
  • Carousing
  • Charisma
  • Courtly Graces
  • Diplomacy
  • Language
  • Literacy
  • Mimic
  • Mundane Talent [Musical Instrument]
  • Mundane Talent [Singing]
  • Poetry
  • Sex Appeal
  • Writing
Requiring bards to buy up the component talents puts them on par with not only thieves, but mercenaries, merchants, assassins, sea captains, etc. And, by eliminating Bard, you can avoid the ridiculous stacking of Sex Appeal's reaction bonus with that of Bard's.

hcobb 01-22-2021 09:44 AM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
I'd agree if Sex Appeal was renamed and the gender restriction removed.

I've been tempted to play an androgynous elf who appeals to all genders just to twerk that rule. (I've dabbled a bit with androgynous halflings, but unfortunate implications abound.)

Shadekeep 01-22-2021 12:30 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shostak (Post 2363813)
If one looks at the talent entry for Thief, it says that it is not a talent at all, but a profession. So why isn't Bard the same? After all, just like how the abilities that let one function as a thief are described by other talents, the same could be said of bards.

It's a fair cop and it does seem to make more sense the way you break it down. After all, a traditional bard combines a musician with a storyteller with a social commentator, plus a number of other things often thrown in on top. If it's a talent then probably Thief, Druid, Assassin, and a number of other common fantasy classes could be argued to have dedicated talents as well, each of which is a syncresis of existing talents.

Probably it was done to simplify creating a bard character, rather than stipulating a set of prerequisites for the career, since most other careers are single mundane talents. And taking the Bard talent doesn't convey nearly as many related talents as something like Thief or Druid might, so it doesn't break the system the way it is now. But I do agree it's something of an odd case.

Shadekeep 01-22-2021 12:33 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2363815)
twerk that rule

So the Bard talent also conveys the ability to shake one's booty? ~_^

TippetsTX 01-22-2021 06:22 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
Rather than use mundane talents, I replaced BARD with a new talent called MUSICIAN and dumped all the 'sex appeal' elements. In my game, there are at least three paths to a bard-style character using a combination of the talents Anthony has listed along with one or more of the talents MUSICIAN, POET or (another new one) MAGICIAN.

Shostak 01-22-2021 07:17 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
Is that the traditional sleight-of-hand magician, or actual thaumaturgy?

TippetsTX 01-22-2021 07:29 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shostak (Post 2363910)
Is that the traditional sleight-of-hand magician, or actual thaumaturgy?

The former. The talent is performance-based, focusing on 'tricks' rather than true magic. The clever MAGICIAN may know a bit of both.

For a wizard to call another wizard a magician is a serious insult, however.

Skarg 01-22-2021 10:10 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
It's not that complicated. Read the definition of the Bard talent. It's just a term for skill in a musical instrument. It can be renamed (e.g. Just list the name of the instrument).

And, you can look at the existing Minstrel and Entertainer job templates, and call one of them Bard if you want, and/or have variations and call them whatever you like.

Shostak 01-23-2021 06:49 AM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
But there's Mundane Talent: Musical Instrument that costs more than bard (to be an expert) and which confers no reaction bonus.

Skarg 01-23-2021 11:21 PM

Re: Why the Bard Talent?
 
Ok. I guess what I wrote above wasn't entirely accurate. The Bard talent also has the "ability to ingratiate" oneself, that seems to extend to same-language verbal communication, as well. They know an instrument AND are an entertainer who also has that kind of social skill.

I take the mundane talent as the one to give people who have instrument skills that don't translate into social reaction effects. You can even take it at a master level, but that doesn't necessarily imply the social skill that comes with Bard.

What I meant my main point to be, was that the name of the talent isn't the main point. It's what it represents. The name "Bard" may now be unfortunate given all the other associations the word has taken on since 1980, especially in certain other RPGs.


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