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-   -   is there a minimum damage? how... (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=161995)

Axly Suregrip 02-07-2019 09:30 AM

is there a minimum damage? how...
 
With different groups I have seen this done different ways. I wanted to see if there is a consensus for how the rules intended this to be done.

If you have a Saber (2-2) and roll 2, is the damage:
0: since 2 minus 2 is zero
1: since some believe their is a minimum damage (I cannot find it in the rules)
2: some believe each die has a minimum of 1 (ditto)

Similarly, I do see that missile spells now have a minimum of damage equal to the ST put into the spell. But is that per die or after summing it all up?

-kind regards
-Alan

TippetsTX 02-07-2019 09:50 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
I have ruled in other games that a successful hit always deals at least 1 point of damage even when there is a die-modifier that allows '0' as a possible result.

Skarg 02-07-2019 10:00 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
RAW there is no minimum damage unless specified (which at the moment I'm not thinking of anything that does).

(In GURPS there is - cutting and impaling type weapons hitting someone without armor will do a minimum of 1 in that game.)

hcobb 02-07-2019 10:10 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip (Post 2241452)
Similarly, I do see that missile spells now have a minimum of damage equal to the ST put into the spell. But is that per die or after summing it all up?

Always been final sum to me. Magic Fist would be much more effective if per-die.

Axly Suregrip 02-07-2019 10:27 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
Okay, now this makes sense. If you have a GURPS back ground you see 1 as the minimum and if you do not, you see 0 as the minimum.

I will go along with the GM. And then make the call when I am GM.

thank you all for your replies.
-Alan

flankspeed 02-19-2019 09:04 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip (Post 2241463)
Okay, now this makes sense. If you have a GURPS back ground you see 1 as the minimum and if you do not, you see 0 as the minimum....

I hope this thread is not too old to reply to, and I apologize if it is. I just thought you might be interested in the ideas discussed when I raised this same topic back in August of last year. It's interesting how differently people can look at the same topic:

Damage Rolls with a Minus Modifier: Minimum 0 or 1?
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158885

Personally, I don't like penalizing weapons such as the dagger or cutlass to do zero damage, so I typically see the minimum damage as being one point no matter what the minus is. I mean, if the cutlass can occasionally strike with the flat of the blade to do no effective damage, so could any other sword.

However, to account for the fact that typical unarmed attacks should not be as instantly lethal as most weapon-based or magical attacks, I would rule that attacks without a weapon have a minimum damage of zero while attacks with weapons or magic have a minimum damage of one.

Best wishes to find whatever works for you and your gaming group!

hcobb 02-19-2019 09:24 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
Minimum damage for weapons would make kids with thrown rocks killers.

Skarg 02-19-2019 10:38 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flankspeed (Post 2244087)
Personally, I don't like penalizing weapons such as the dagger or cutlass to do zero damage, so I typically see the minimum damage as being one point no matter what the minus is. I mean, if the cutlass can occasionally strike with the flat of the blade to do no effective damage, so could any other sword.

I don't see having a weapon being able to roll zero damage as unduly penalizing a light weapon, as I think it is important to be able to distinguish not-very-damaging effects, and I don't see zero damage as necessarily meaning you weren't cut at all - it might just be a superficial cut that doesn't amount to a whole point of damage (which after all is about 10% of the way to unconsciousness or death for most people).

Also there would be a major balance shift for all the existing minor 1d-X damage effects, and a major added effect/incentive to wear Cloth or take Toughness to stop all the min-1 damage results (not that that part of it wouldn't make sense - it does work well in GURPS where it's part of the design, but the TFT damage values weren't written with min 1 in mind).

However I do agree that "all weapons should be capable of an ineffective hit" is a good point. In particular I don't tend to like to have a high minimum damage (like you get with magic or fine weapons unless you convert some of the + amount to dice). When I have made various house-rules to account for such, they have added such a chance of zero damage to more powerful weapons (e.g. add 1d-4 or 2d-7 to every weapon damage), instead of removing that chance from less powerful weapons. It's also perhaps easier and more appropriate to put such a chance in the to-hit roll, and/or deem that it's already in the to-hit roll.

hcobb 02-19-2019 11:23 AM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarg (Post 2244108)
I don't see zero damage as necessarily meaning you weren't cut at all - it might just be a superficial cut that doesn't amount to a whole point of damage (which after all is about 10% of the way to unconsciousness or death for most people).

And whataboutism poison?

JLV 02-19-2019 12:17 PM

Re: is there a minimum damage? how...
 
To me, if the weapon doesn't do any damage to the figure even though it hit, that just means that it wasn't a strong enough or direct enough hit to do anything important to the character -- it glanced off, or the victim flinched (and changed a potentially dangerous hit into a mere nick by sheer chance), or it penetrated clothing but maybe only put a thin cut on the person's arm, or whatever. Them's the breaks, and insisting that every hit cause harm is one sure way to kill lots and lots of characters in TFT.

So from both a reality standpoint (sometimes a person gets lucky) to a gaming standpoint (I don't like killing characters unnecessarily -- if you earn it, great, but just engaging in combat under the "minimum damage is always 1 rule" guarantees short careers and even shorter dungeon delves) in my games minimum damage is none, period.


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