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-   -   Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84 (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=171573)

JimTullis 12-20-2020 02:01 AM

Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Several posters on the KS have noted that the January Draft rules pdf was formatted as individual pages and the new rules pdf is formatted as 2 page spreads making it harder to read on mobile platforms.

Other individuals (including me) have expressed a desire to have all of the rules in one book. I noted that historically CAR WARS started out as a loose collection of rules, rules updates, and errata. Then somewhere down the line they released the Compendium. So unfortunately this edition is on track for the same experience.

One user noted that they had trouble finding the rules for passing initiative. They seemed to feel that the rulebook was a bit cluttered with graphics, and found that they rule is only mentioned twice, once in the rules on page 12 and once on the chart on the back page.

I agree that it is difficult to find the rule, but not because graphics are obscuring it. It's just one of those small rules that is easy to overlook. I do think that on the Sequence of Play chart on the back they could have pushed the word PASS down to cause this rule to occupy it's own line.

I also think they went a little overboard on graphics in the rulebook. The rule illustrations are very helpful and the boxed action shot graphics are fine, but the large unboxed cars are distracting. Especially the one on Page 18 that also overlaps one of the rule illustrations. (It overlapped the same graphic in the January Draft.)

Other than it being tradition in board games, I'm not sure why they put the components list in the rule book. It's not really a rule, just a checklist to make sure everything is in the box. And they printed it on the back (bottom?) of the box. Since there are 2 differrent retail versions of the game, there are now 2 differrent components lists in the rulebook. Personally, I sometimes tape a checklist in the lid of the box since that's the last thing you see before you close it.

I'd be interested in reading what others think of the new rule book. Also, has anyone come up with a good way to replicate the Bootlegger Reverse in 6th?

Chainsaw 12-20-2020 09:39 AM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Sadly due to this being a year of "living in interesting times" I missed the kickstarter.

So after two days of my son playing Car Wars second edition and designing cars non stop, i remembered 5th edition and wondered if the vehicle design rules had been released, so I popped on here.

Great news about 6th ed, and after looking at the foot high pile of compendiums, catalogues, boxed sets and ADQ's, as I missed the kickstarter, a compendium of all the 6th ed rules would be great.

Can i ask about best guess dates for the game in the shops? I have a piece of string here i can measure if it helps ;)

I imaging my sons wargaming club at school would would get into car wars as much as i did with the small box editions, after seeing my sons reaction to the game.

So getting one for his school might be on the cards.


..... oh spinally mounted tank gun has been discovered... hmmm a pack of motorbikes might be needed... hope the 6th ed compendium is on the cards

baakyocalder 12-20-2020 07:20 PM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Sixth edition is a very different version of the game than other editions.

It's going to be car models and focus on the car on car carnage rather than all the building rules of the compendiums.

You'll take your stack of cards and point budget and then build the car using those cards. Different gear costs a different amount of points and there will be facing rules and a limit on how big the guns are based on point totals, and how many of different types of gear you can have on one side (down to 4 sides with no top or bottom).

The videos on the Steve Jackson Games Youtube channel give you a clear vision of the game.

It's Car Wars, but you're going to spend more time at the table playing and less time building because you don't have to balance all the weight and power and handling and space concerns.

The game is designed for 2-4 players and the main full set will have enough for 4 players to go at it simultaneously or break up into a pair of 2-player games. Figure half an hour per player, so a 4-player game should take around 2 hours unless you go with a big point design with lots of armor and defenses and roll poorly on attacks.

Motorcycles were an unlocked stretch goal, so they should be released at some point.

Right now there is no release date, but there's been good progress on the sample tooling despite Covid-19 delaying sample shipments and the inability of all SJ Games staff involved to safely gather in a room and see all the cool stuff.

I'm sure we'll get a release date once Steve Jackson Games has everything ready and can give us a reasonable estimate of shipment dates for backers and street dates for Warehouse 23 and gamestore orders. This is a big project and it's better to get it right than rush it.

baakyocalder 12-20-2020 07:31 PM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimTullis (Post 2358921)
Several posters on the KS have noted that the January Draft rules pdf was formatted as individual pages and the new rules pdf is formatted as 2 page spreads making it harder to read on mobile platforms.

Other individuals (including me) have expressed a desire to have all of the rules in one book. I noted that historically CAR WARS started out as a loose collection of rules, rules updates, and errata. Then somewhere down the line they released the Compendium. So unfortunately this edition is on track for the same experience.

One user noted that they had trouble finding the rules for passing initiative. They seemed to feel that the rulebook was a bit cluttered with graphics, and found that they rule is only mentioned twice, once in the rules on page 12 and once on the chart on the back page.

I agree that it is difficult to find the rule, but not because graphics are obscuring it. It's just one of those small rules that is easy to overlook. I do think that on the Sequence of Play chart on the back they could have pushed the word PASS down to cause this rule to occupy it's own line.

I also think they went a little overboard on graphics in the rulebook. The rule illustrations are very helpful and the boxed action shot graphics are fine, but the large unboxed cars are distracting. Especially the one on Page 18 that also overlaps one of the rule illustrations. (It overlapped the same graphic in the January Draft.)

Other than it being tradition in board games, I'm not sure why they put the components list in the rule book. It's not really a rule, just a checklist to make sure everything is in the box. And they printed it on the back (bottom?) of the box. Since there are 2 differrent retail versions of the game, there are now 2 differrent components lists in the rulebook. Personally, I sometimes tape a checklist in the lid of the box since that's the last thing you see before you close it.

I'd be interested in reading what others think of the new rule book. Also, has anyone come up with a good way to replicate the Bootlegger Reverse in 6th?

There are a lot of graphics. The car on page 18 is a little into the graphics box illustrating a rule; I can see around it enough that it doesn't bother me.

We could get part of a page by eliminating the component list for the game. That's a tough one, since the rules to a game should let you know what the components you use are.

As for the two-page spreads, maybe a mobile version could be made with good links so that you can quickly find the rules from links in the table of contents?

Magesmiley 12-23-2020 08:35 AM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
I think that I'd concur that new gamers might be mystified regarding the first player marker when it is first mentioned on page 10. There really needs to be something there. This could be as simple as adding "Randomly assign the first-player marker to a player." to the Starting Positions section.
I think slightly repositioning and tightening the top white space on the Starting Positions diagram would give enough space for a short sentence like this.

As far as the reference on page 24, just an observation: the symbols in the damage section don't pop very well. It takes some visual searching (which equates to game time) to find the icon you're looking for. They just don't stand out very well. Compare them visually to the Dice Icons and you should be able to see what I mean.

Magesmiley 12-23-2020 08:48 AM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimTullis (Post 2358921)
I'd be interested in reading what others think of the new rule book. Also, has anyone come up with a good way to replicate the Bootlegger Reverse in 6th?

Maybe not a good way...

Do a 90 degree turn and use rerolls until you get a number of skid results in excess of your control tokens that spins the car the rest of the way around.

Potentially dangerous, particularly if you're early in the turn order. but it could get the result that you're looking for. You could still have some rerolls left I suppose for if you hit something minor while driving straight.

JimTullis 12-23-2020 11:39 AM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magesmiley (Post 2359340)
As far as the reference on page 24, just an observation: the symbols in the damage section don't pop very well. It takes some visual searching (which equates to game time) to find the icon you're looking for. They just don't stand out very well. Compare them visually to the Dice Icons and you should be able to see what I mean.

I agree, the whole right side of that page has a "wall of text" feel. Luckily it shouldn't take too many games to internalize those symbols.

Overload 12-26-2020 07:01 PM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Will there be any sample builds and/or 'stock vehicles' in the 2 or 4 player box?

JimTullis 12-26-2020 11:58 PM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Overload (Post 2359806)
Will there be any sample builds and/or 'stock vehicles' in the 2 or 4 player box?

Don't know about the 2 player boxes, but kickstarter shows the 4 player core game has "5 double-sided quickstart vehicle record sheets".

Midway down KS Update 83 there is a photo of a sheet showing a 10 point Slipstream build. It looks like you can lay the sheet out and play from it without getting out the build cards.

Hopefully they packaged these in the sub assembly boxes that have the cars depicted on the sheets. If they packaged them in the rules box, I'll wind up with a few extras, since I bought the extra rulebook set.

juris 12-28-2020 05:29 PM

Re: Comments on Rulebook from KS Update 84
 
I had a hard time with the 6e rulebook pdf. Maybe the print edition will be different but it just seemed like they threw a lot at you all at once - too many abbreviations there's stars, squiggly roads, control icons, fire icons, what looks like hazard icons, targeting icons... etc. It's like a programming language.



Quote:

Originally Posted by baakyocalder (Post 2359035)
There are a lot of graphics. The car on page 18 is a little into the graphics box illustrating a rule; I can see around it enough that it doesn't bother me.



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