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-   -   [Combat]: Do you bow, bro? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=136175)

Anthony 07-17-2015 01:01 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1919628)
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?

You'd be surprised by how inaccurate people are under conditions of pressure. I don't know of one specific to 2 yards, but a study of NYC police firearm use puts the average hit rate at 18% for firefights (i.e. target shooting back), 30% when target was not shooting back (37% within 7 yards, 23% beyond 7 yards).

Ulzgoroth 07-17-2015 01:01 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1919628)
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?
I can do that and there's no way I'm using anything other than default from a not so nice Dexterity score.

Cannot hit? Or cannot hit every time? I've certainly missed man-sized targets at that range. With a dart gun, which has to rate easier than a bow. (I'm pretty sure I've never taken an unaimed shot from a bow or shot a bow at less than 6 feet.)


Do note that bows are ranged weapons, and might be eligible for some or all of the 'range conditions' bonuses credited to guns for non-combat shooting.

Kalzazz 07-17-2015 01:04 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Qualifying with a revolver with 12 shots at 3 yds and 12 shots at 7yds, I managed to put 27 holes in my human sized target.

Not only did someone manage to miss, they managed to hit the completely wrong target

weby 07-17-2015 01:13 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1919628)
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?
I can do that and there's no way I'm using anything other than default from a not so nice Dexterity score.

And yet if you were firing a pistol you would not hit if you were an average person, There are a lot of statistics on gunfights where the opponents are firing at each other at short ranges. In vast majority of them the vast majority of the shots miss, despite being at an average distance of less that 7 yards(-3 in GURPS terms).

A good example of how hard it is is found on pages 3-5 of:
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf

roguebfl 07-17-2015 01:14 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalzazz (Post 1919653)
Qualifying with a revolver with 12 shots at 3 yds and 12 shots at 7yds, I managed to put 27 holes in my human sized target.

Not only did someone manage to miss, they managed to hit the completely wrong target

And that a sationary target, GURPS not only assumes combat presure is worse than firing range, but also People are constatly moving.

weby 07-17-2015 01:16 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1919637)
Six feet is simply trivial for anyone capable of moving their arms in any coordinated fashion.

If you call a mean hit probability of 15% with handguns at mean ranges of <6 feet "trivial", the yes by your definition of trivial it is. I personally do not call 15% success rate trivial.

Kalzazz 07-17-2015 01:24 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Half the shots were untimed, half you had 5 seconds to draw the revolver and shoot twice

So, human sized target. 3yds away -1. Firing two handed and aimed for 1 second is +1 + ACC. Given its a very well worn double action revolver firing inexpensive low recoil reloads I am guessing ACC 1. All out attack +1. So net of skill +1, then all the nice non combat known range bonuses, but with penalties of being in front of your coworkers on display with failure leading to dishonor, trying again, and in extreme cases remedial training or unemployment

Ulzgoroth 07-17-2015 01:38 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalzazz (Post 1919653)
Qualifying with a revolver with 12 shots at 3 yds and 12 shots at 7yds, I managed to put 27 holes in my human sized target.

Not only did someone manage to miss, they managed to hit the completely wrong target

To be fair, that doesn't necessarily mean they missed the target that they aimed at with those shots.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalzazz (Post 1919664)
Half the shots were untimed, half you had 5 seconds to draw the revolver and shoot twice

So, human sized target. 3yds away -1. Firing two handed and aimed for 1 second is +1 + ACC. Given its a very well worn double action revolver firing inexpensive low recoil reloads I am guessing ACC 1. All out attack +1. So net of skill +1, then all the nice non combat known range bonuses, but with penalties of being in front of your coworkers on display with failure leading to dishonor, trying again, and in extreme cases remedial training or unemployment

Nice non combat bonuses: +2 or +3 for no pressure (I'd give only +2 because I don't see any justification for the 'political or military' qualifier on the +1 for no stake in the outcome.). +3 for known range. +1-4 for range environment (lighting, visibility, I'm not sure what else). No additional penalty for the threat of being shamed, that's what I'm knocking one off the 'no pressure' bonus for.

EDIT: At such short ranges, the +3 for rangefinding is probably not realistic, but is allowed.

weby 07-17-2015 01:43 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1919669)
To be fair, that doesn't necessarily mean they missed the target that they aimed at with those shots.

Well, I do remember the early qualifying shots in Army, I did deliberately do things like shoot in other people's targets to not get too high score and be sent to sniper school.. I usually selected someone I knew was a bad shot and thus they got some high point hits by accident at times it seemed... :)

Of course once the selections for further training were done I did shoot the highest category score at all the events to get the 3 extra days off.

Phoenix_Dragon 07-17-2015 01:44 PM

Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1919637)
Six feet is simply trivial for anyone capable of moving their arms in any coordinated fashion.

In a non-combat situation with no risk to yourself against a fixed target in good lighting and while not needing to maintain the mobility necessary to dodge an incoming attack. In GURPS, even a skill-10 person hits 98% of the time with unaimed shots in that situation (Or 95% if we discount the "known range" bonus, since it's probably a little silly at just 6 feet and should probably just reduce range penalties instead of giving a bonus).


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